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> Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go. C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is prob

> Golang seems really promising, but has a long way to go. C# seems like the most credible challenger for business systems, but the .NET Core ecosystem is probably still years away from being where Java was in 2005. Go doesn't have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous "you don't need that with Go" is something pushed by go maintainers themselves. The best bet is .NET core. Microsoft can move quite fast on a project, just look at Typescript or VSCode. And there are already hundreds of thousands of C# devs if not more. C# and F# with .Net core on linux will certainly be the future of entreprise development when the RC mess is sorted out. And MS can still make money on expensive SQLServer licenses. I don't think the latest JEE was that bad though. It tried to do away with a lot of unnecessary complexity.

hitr 10y ago
>when the RC mess is sorted out RC mess is already sorted out with RTM release, isn't it?
deleted 10y ago
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voidlogic 10y ago
>Go doesn't have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous "you don't need that with Go" is something pushed by go maintainers themselves. Go has a pretty comprehensive stdlib. And a huge and growing community of 3rd party libraries. I left .NET and Java for Go around 0.9 and since then I have seen Go flower into an ecosystem I am far more productive than. The Go devs have a bias against complexity, they hate Abstract Factory Factory Singletons :P, but that does have much impact on community developed libraries. The Go community does have a strong bias towards libraries and against frameworks, but IMHO, that is generally healthy. The only concrete example of what you are talking about is the current lack of generics support.
- shadowmint 10y ago
  I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shouted out) ...but slowly we're seeing things move to a more moderate and mature state now where people are actually solving problems (like vendoring and SetDeadline()), rather than just pretending everything is ok, and building really good things with it, like go-kit. It's just go growing up and being used seriously by people; but to be fair to the parent post, if you've used go in the past, I can see why you might have some opinions about it not being run by grown ups. Worth having another look though. These days, it's pretty good.
  - geodel 10y ago
    How did it become good? Has generics been added? or syntax changed? or framework comes bundled with Go? Seems all example you gave are some libraries being written which shouldn't be big deal.
    - shadowmint 10y ago
      I'm talking about the community, which has tangibly improved. There are also technical improvements (as I mentioned) and frameworks (as I mentioned). What more do you want? Generics? No. You still can't have those. Different syntax? No. You still can't have that. ...but maybe, now, if you go and talk to people about it, they won't flip the table about it, and you can have a conversation about it with folks on the gopher slack where everyone is reasonable and thoughtful both about legitimate concerns and future directions for change. In my oppinion, that's a big deal...
  - pkaye 10y ago
    Can you tell me what is the issue with SetDeadline()?
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Traditionally, Microsoft technology has been an all-or-nothing affair. If you want C# you also get IIS, SQL Server, Windows, Azure, Visual Studio, Windows on your dev machine and I wouldn't be surprised if Exchange shows up somehow. You could use Mono, but then you were off the beaten path and on your own. When something new appeared from outside Microsoft, such as git, it wouldn't fit into the MS ecosystem for a while. Now Microsoft seems to be changing its culture, but I can understand if people are weary.
marcosdumay 10y ago
I don't know Go (didn't got a good first impression), and don't know what those libraries are, but nearly every time I've seen somebody say "you don't need this on language X" it was true, and the problem goes away after the requesting person really learns language X, instead of writing language Y code in X. Maybe Go is a exception, but there's a lot of people happy to use it. (Yes, there's a lot of people happy to use PHP too. Those things always have exceptions.)

hitr 10y ago

>when the RC mess is sorted out RC mess is already sorted out with RTM release, isn't it?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

voidlogic 10y ago

>Go doesn't have the guts to replace Java, because of the hostile mindset of its community when it comes to writing reusable, general purpose libraries. the famous "you don't need that with Go" is something pushed by go maintainers themselves. Go has a pretty comprehensive stdlib. And a huge and growing community of 3rd party libraries. I left .NET and Java for Go around 0.9 and since then I have seen Go flower into an ecosystem I am far more productive than. The Go devs have a bias against complexity, they hate Abstract Factory Factory Singletons :P, but that does have much impact on community developed libraries. The Go community does have a strong bias towards libraries and against frameworks, but IMHO, that is generally healthy. The only concrete example of what you are talking about is the current lack of generics support.

shadowmint 10y ago
I think the issue here is the hostility of the go community historically to pretty much any kind of criticism on pretty much any front. (want generics? too bad! don't like the syntax for [thing]? too bad! want a framework? you're doing it wrong! want to test without using actual sending network traffic? BAM! 50 downvotes on SO for 'poor question'. Got some feedback and post it to golang nuts? HA! Prepare to be shouted out) ...but slowly we're seeing things move to a more moderate and mature state now where people are actually solving problems (like vendoring and SetDeadline()), rather than just pretending everything is ok, and building really good things with it, like go-kit. It's just go growing up and being used seriously by people; but to be fair to the parent post, if you've used go in the past, I can see why you might have some opinions about it not being run by grown ups. Worth having another look though. These days, it's pretty good.
- geodel 10y ago
  How did it become good? Has generics been added? or syntax changed? or framework comes bundled with Go? Seems all example you gave are some libraries being written which shouldn't be big deal.
  - shadowmint 10y ago
    I'm talking about the community, which has tangibly improved. There are also technical improvements (as I mentioned) and frameworks (as I mentioned). What more do you want? Generics? No. You still can't have those. Different syntax? No. You still can't have that. ...but maybe, now, if you go and talk to people about it, they won't flip the table about it, and you can have a conversation about it with folks on the gopher slack where everyone is reasonable and thoughtful both about legitimate concerns and future directions for change. In my oppinion, that's a big deal...
- pkaye 10y ago
  Can you tell me what is the issue with SetDeadline()?

TorKlingberg 10y ago

Traditionally, Microsoft technology has been an all-or-nothing affair. If you want C# you also get IIS, SQL Server, Windows, Azure, Visual Studio, Windows on your dev machine and I wouldn't be surprised if Exchange shows up somehow. You could use Mono, but then you were off the beaten path and on your own. When something new appeared from outside Microsoft, such as git, it wouldn't fit into the MS ecosystem for a while. Now Microsoft seems to be changing its culture, but I can understand if people are weary.

marcosdumay 10y ago

I don't know Go (didn't got a good first impression), and don't know what those libraries are, but nearly every time I've seen somebody say "you don't need this on language X" it was true, and the problem goes away after the requesting person really learns language X, instead of writing language Y code in X. Maybe Go is a exception, but there's a lot of people happy to use it. (Yes, there's a lot of people happy to use PHP too. Those things always have exceptions.)