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> Admiral Kuznetsov has never seen combat, nor would she be of much practical military use. As a Russian speaker, I find this sentence grating. Is it normal to
by cheiVia0 10y ago
> Admiral Kuznetsov has never seen combat, nor would she be of much practical military use.
As a Russian speaker, I find this sentence grating. Is it normal to refer to a ship with a male name as "she"? Would this be right?
> USS George Washington has never seen combat, nor would she be of much practical military use.
(For those that don't know, Russian last names are slightly different depending on the gender. So Admiral Kuznetsov's wife's last name would be Kuznetsova.)
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- nkw 10y ago> As a Russian speaker, I find this sentence grating. Is it normal to refer to a ship with a male name as "she"? Would this be right? Yes. I don't know the history behind it but ships and vessels are generally referred to using female pronouns in English. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_English#Ships https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender_in_English#Ships > (For those that don't know, Russian last names are slightly different depending on the gender. So Admiral Kuznetsov's wife's last name would be Kuznetsova.) e.g. From Wikipedia - "USS Ronald Reagan (CVN-76) is a Nimitz-class nuclear-powered supercarrier in the service of the United States Navy. The ninth ship of her class,[2] she is named in honor of former President Ronald Reagan" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ronald_Reagan https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Ronald_Reagan
- idlewords 10y agoIt sounds antiquated and kind of icky to native speakers, so you don't ever have to do it yourself.
- stephengillie 10y agoIt's a throwback to an earlier time, when societal norms dictated social roles, and lonely sailors sought any reference to their opposite gender.
- frozenport 10y agoProbably not true. Are we to assume that the English/German navy was composed primarily of homosexuals? And can this difference be attributed to the comparatively longer voyages made by English sailors?
- kirrent 10y agoPresumably you'd say the same things about other traditionally gendered inanimate objects in english such as countries or the moon?
- stephengillie 10y agoYes.
- dredmorbius 10y agoI thought your first language was Polish. Which would make your comment other-than-first-person?
- idlewords 10y agoI will take Pepsi challenge on being native speaker of English any day of week.
- dredmorbius 10y agoDobrze grał, sir.
- idlewords 10y agoŁadnie rozegrane!
- mlvljr 10y agoGo for it, man!! [opens a beer can]
- BrandonMarc 10y agoThe latter version doesn't sound so bad, because the USS is a dead giveaway "this here is the name of a ship." The former, on the other hand, would seem rather strange. It would sound a bit like this: > General Patton has never seen combat, nor would she be of much practical military use. (given Gen. Patton is a widely known character thus those familiar know he's a "he")
- chii 10y agoWhen referring to things with a name, it's usually preceded by 'the', I.e, the General Patton. It's perfectly clear that the name isn't referring to the person.
- wtbob 10y agoBut correct usage is never to use the definite article with a ship: it's always just 'HMS Indefatigable,' never 'the HMS Indefatigable.'
- dragonwriter 10y agoAFAICT, that's not actually a statement of "correct" vs. "incorrect" usage generally, so much of practice of certain organizations (including, inter alia, the US Navy.) And, IME, its fairly common even in formal writing -- but, again, not from particular entities, like the USN -- to use the definite article when no prefix (HMS, USS, etc.) is used.
- venomsnake 10y agoAs a non native speaker too - it is weirder with battleships. You will be hard pressed to find anything more phallic than Iowa Class. And yet it is a she ...
- rdtsc 10y ago> Is it normal to refer to a ship with a male name as "she"? Would this be right? Isn't it a bit the same as the Russian classic Avrora -- it is a female name, but the ship (Крейсер) referred to as a male? Same thing as Diana (a sister, ... brother? ship) to Avrora in the same class. Just because it is called Diana and battleship are male in Russian, it doesn't change its name to Dionis, Denis or something silly like that.
- pandaman 10y agoExactly this. There are also types of ships that are feminine gender in Russian (yacht, schooner, boat, submarine etc) and they follow the same gendering as in English. E.g the famous Putin's phrase "Она утонула" (She has drowned) is in reference of the submarine Kursk (a masculine gender proper name).
- wtbob 10y ago> Is it normal to refer to a ship with a male name as "she"? Yes, in English ships are always referred to as 'she,' and also never with the definite article. I.e., one doesn't write 'the USS George H.W. Bush has never seen combat, but she'll wipe the deck with any contenders,' but rather, 'USS George H.W. Bush has never seen combat, but she'll wipe the deck with any contenders.' I'm sure that there's a reason in the mists of time, but it honestly doesn't matter: a navy which loses hold of its traditions isn't much more than an armed yacht club, and thus every navy worth its salt holds onto them.
- jrockway 10y agoAt least there's a computer game that takes calling ships "she" to its logical conclusion: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantai_Collection https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kantai_Collection