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Fair enough. But you use your own address and name to deliver stuff from the internet. Where is the anonymity in that? Or i am missing something? Also... you g

by batrat 10y ago

Fair enough. But you use your own address and name to deliver stuff from the internet. Where is the anonymity in that? Or i am missing something? Also... you get your cash from CC and transfer it to BTC, you pay someone else, you encourage money laundering because that seller doesn't have to pay any tax for that. For me the most important factor is where the cash is going. IF we all switch to bitcoin and government can't keep track of the money, big criminals, bit corps will never pay any taxes, and how we are going to have free schools, free medical care, police, etc? Am I over thinking this? Privacy is important but either we have to find a way to change the economy as it is, or regulate BTC properly. Just because someone has a fetish and wants to keep it "anonymous" is not enough for me.

ultramancool 10y ago
> Fair enough. But you use your own address and name to deliver stuff from the internet. Where is the anonymity in that? Or i am missing something? Yes you are, you're missing the addition of a trusted party. I may trust someone I'm trading with to keep me anonymous, mail my order out, etc. But what if I do not trust my bank to destroy the transaction and keep me anonymous if someone comes looking later. You trust the first out of necessity, but you only trust the second out of convenience. This of course only applies to physical products as electronic products can be delivered completely anonymously.
patrickaljord 10y ago
> will never pay any taxes > and how we are going to have free schools, free medical care, police, etc? Am I over thinking this? Well it isn't free if you have to pay for it. Here in France we pay 80% taxes and then we like to brag about having free school, free healthcare etc. It's not free if 80% of your hard earned money goes to these institutions and the bureaucracies that manage them. Worst thing is that we still need a private insurance on top of that because our welfare system is going broke and can't even pay for anything despite the 80% taxation. So yeah, it is not free after all, it is even super expensive. Here is the thing that people do not understand: quality healthcare or quality education are expensive, there is no way around that, no magic welfare taxes will fix it. Whether private or public, it will cost you an arm and a leg. Only thing that could fix it would be innovation but unfortunately these sectors are highly regulated and this is a barrier to innovation so things will progress very slowly.
- tormeh 10y ago
  >Here in France we pay 80% taxes It's 44.2% tax burden and 56.1% government spending. Percentages are fractions of GDP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending It's not atypical for a western country. You still pay less than the Danes.
  - patrickaljord 10y ago
    That's an average. This is not taking into account VAT and the other gazillions insults (also known as public services) that are forced on you because state monopoly, healthcare which is mandatory and public here and is more like a tax than insurance (you don't pay according to risk but according to how much your earn, and you still need a private insurance on top), and then there are of course tariffs that helps colluding and failing industries, employment taxes that makes up already 50% of your salary pre-income tax, ridiculous gazillions regulations that make everything more expensive and so on and so forth.
- Daishiman 10y ago
  > Here is the thing that people do not understand: quality healthcare or quality education are expensive, there is no way around that, no magic welfare taxes will fix it. Whether private or public, it will cost you an arm and a leg. Only thing that could fix it would be innovation but unfortunately these sectors are highly regulated and this is a barrier to innovation so things will progress very slowly. Everyone complains about regulation in health care until you get faulty medical equipment or contaminated pills and a couple dozen people die. It is a tired and irrelevant complaint.
  - patrickaljord 10y ago
    > Everyone complains about regulation in health care until you get faulty medical equipment or contaminated pills and a couple dozen people die. As usual there are the deaths you see and those you don't. How many people died because a new medical equipment required years to get approved and many people who could have benefited did not and died? It is very shortsighted to only mention and count deaths caused by approved medicines and not by unapproved yet working ones.
jlg23 10y ago
> IF we all switch to bitcoin and government can't keep track of the money, big criminals, bit corps will never pay any taxes [...] The biggest companies do not pay much taxes already; while I get your point, I consider it invalid until everyone who is doing legal business is paying taxes. The mafia will never pay taxes on illegal business, but it is irrelevant as long as big corporations can get around paying taxes by constructing legal international constructs. > Privacy is important but either we have to find a way to change the economy as it is, or regulate BTC properly. So let's go for the easy thing and regulate BTC even though it promises the smallest of all gains for society? Can you point me to any reports about BTC being used for terrorism? If there are any, do they really warrant a regulation? > Just because someone has a fetish and wants to keep it "anonymous" is not enough for me. Tell that to gay people in societies in which they face, at best, discrimination or, at worst, prison or death penalty. Just because you don't have anything to be concerned about yourself right now, does not mean you should devalue privacy and anonymity for others: You can still be the next deviant who is hunted down. Or how Niemoeller put it: First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

by batrat 10y ago

ultramancool 10y ago

> Fair enough. But you use your own address and name to deliver stuff from the internet. Where is the anonymity in that? Or i am missing something? Yes you are, you're missing the addition of a trusted party. I may trust someone I'm trading with to keep me anonymous, mail my order out, etc. But what if I do not trust my bank to destroy the transaction and keep me anonymous if someone comes looking later. You trust the first out of necessity, but you only trust the second out of convenience. This of course only applies to physical products as electronic products can be delivered completely anonymously.

patrickaljord 10y ago

> will never pay any taxes > and how we are going to have free schools, free medical care, police, etc? Am I over thinking this? Well it isn't free if you have to pay for it. Here in France we pay 80% taxes and then we like to brag about having free school, free healthcare etc. It's not free if 80% of your hard earned money goes to these institutions and the bureaucracies that manage them. Worst thing is that we still need a private insurance on top of that because our welfare system is going broke and can't even pay for anything despite the 80% taxation. So yeah, it is not free after all, it is even super expensive. Here is the thing that people do not understand: quality healthcare or quality education are expensive, there is no way around that, no magic welfare taxes will fix it. Whether private or public, it will cost you an arm and a leg. Only thing that could fix it would be innovation but unfortunately these sectors are highly regulated and this is a barrier to innovation so things will progress very slowly.

tormeh 10y ago
>Here in France we pay 80% taxes It's 44.2% tax burden and 56.1% government spending. Percentages are fractions of GDP: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Government_spending It's not atypical for a western country. You still pay less than the Danes.
- patrickaljord 10y ago
  That's an average. This is not taking into account VAT and the other gazillions insults (also known as public services) that are forced on you because state monopoly, healthcare which is mandatory and public here and is more like a tax than insurance (you don't pay according to risk but according to how much your earn, and you still need a private insurance on top), and then there are of course tariffs that helps colluding and failing industries, employment taxes that makes up already 50% of your salary pre-income tax, ridiculous gazillions regulations that make everything more expensive and so on and so forth.
Daishiman 10y ago
> Here is the thing that people do not understand: quality healthcare or quality education are expensive, there is no way around that, no magic welfare taxes will fix it. Whether private or public, it will cost you an arm and a leg. Only thing that could fix it would be innovation but unfortunately these sectors are highly regulated and this is a barrier to innovation so things will progress very slowly. Everyone complains about regulation in health care until you get faulty medical equipment or contaminated pills and a couple dozen people die. It is a tired and irrelevant complaint.
- patrickaljord 10y ago
  > Everyone complains about regulation in health care until you get faulty medical equipment or contaminated pills and a couple dozen people die. As usual there are the deaths you see and those you don't. How many people died because a new medical equipment required years to get approved and many people who could have benefited did not and died? It is very shortsighted to only mention and count deaths caused by approved medicines and not by unapproved yet working ones.

jlg23 10y ago

> IF we all switch to bitcoin and government can't keep track of the money, big criminals, bit corps will never pay any taxes [...] The biggest companies do not pay much taxes already; while I get your point, I consider it invalid until everyone who is doing legal business is paying taxes. The mafia will never pay taxes on illegal business, but it is irrelevant as long as big corporations can get around paying taxes by constructing legal international constructs. > Privacy is important but either we have to find a way to change the economy as it is, or regulate BTC properly. So let's go for the easy thing and regulate BTC even though it promises the smallest of all gains for society? Can you point me to any reports about BTC being used for terrorism? If there are any, do they really warrant a regulation? > Just because someone has a fetish and wants to keep it "anonymous" is not enough for me. Tell that to gay people in societies in which they face, at best, discrimination or, at worst, prison or death penalty. Just because you don't have anything to be concerned about yourself right now, does not mean you should devalue privacy and anonymity for others: You can still be the next deviant who is hunted down. Or how Niemoeller put it: First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Socialist. Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Trade Unionist. Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out— Because I was not a Jew. Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.