4 ms·

Well, I know what it's for, and I can appreciate that aspect. I just know it's been used on me and had that effect.

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from trouble. Then in first grade we want to please the nice teacher. Somewhere in middle school kids become rules-lawyers. Later in life they may learn to be philanthropic. People can be stuck at one of these early levels for life.
- orblivion 10y ago
  I'm not sure how that applies, but it's interesting. Maybe I shouldn't say "guilt" as much as "shame".
- arielweisberg 10y ago
  I think it's not just age, but the wealth and prosperity that can go along with it. It's easier to have a moral code and look down on those with less when your own needs and wants are secure.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    My old minister used to say "We can have all the morals we can afford"
- ambicapter 10y ago
  Shit, I'm stuck at 3. This is bad.
  - PhasmaFelis 10y ago
    Not as bad as being stuck at #1, which can be rephrased as "don't get caught." Far too many adults are still there.
    - EdHominem 10y ago
      #4 and #5 are back to #1 - Doing what you feel is best while not being caught for doing it, just with a broader sense of "best".
- nostrademons 10y ago
  Interestingly, this mirrors Kohlberg's stages of moral development, though Kohlberg was a child when Grapes of Wrath came out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o... The one missing stage is #2, self-interest, which in this framing would be "I want to please myself."

Steinbeck (in Grapes of Wrath?) had a character recite the 5 levels of moral development. It went something like this: 1) I don't want to get in trouble 2) I want to please someone 3) I want to follow the rules 4) I want to help other people and the highest level, 5) I have a personal moral code, and I abide by it He explained these as levels we reach with age - entering school at age 5 or 6 we first hide from trouble. Then in first grade we want to please the nice teacher. Somewhere in middle school kids become rules-lawyers. Later in life they may learn to be philanthropic. People can be stuck at one of these early levels for life.

orblivion 10y ago
I'm not sure how that applies, but it's interesting. Maybe I shouldn't say "guilt" as much as "shame".
arielweisberg 10y ago
I think it's not just age, but the wealth and prosperity that can go along with it. It's easier to have a moral code and look down on those with less when your own needs and wants are secure.
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  My old minister used to say "We can have all the morals we can afford"
ambicapter 10y ago
Shit, I'm stuck at 3. This is bad.
- PhasmaFelis 10y ago
  Not as bad as being stuck at #1, which can be rephrased as "don't get caught." Far too many adults are still there.
  - EdHominem 10y ago
    #4 and #5 are back to #1 - Doing what you feel is best while not being caught for doing it, just with a broader sense of "best".
nostrademons 10y ago
Interestingly, this mirrors Kohlberg's stages of moral development, though Kohlberg was a child when Grapes of Wrath came out. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_of_moral_development https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lawrence_Kohlberg%27s_stages_o... The one missing stage is #2, self-interest, which in this framing would be "I want to please myself."