4 ms·

Dark side of pampered software engineer

12 points by dannylandau 10y ago

CM30 10y ago
Which seems to present the interesting divide between European software engineers and American ones. In the US, you get pampered, but seem to have lots of late nights, 'crunch' time, etc. In Europe, you get far lower wages but it's treated almost solely as a 9-5 job.
- sotojuan 10y ago
  A lot (maybe most) programming jobs in the US are 9-5 but they're not at companies or places HN would be interested in discussing.
  - deskamess 10y ago
    Unfortunately there are a lot of jobs in North America that are stated as 9-5 but include unpaid on-call and overtime. There are laws that make it so that IT does not have to be paid overtime.
  - kemiller2002 10y ago
    I have to disagree with this. Most IT jobs in the U.S. aren't 9-5. Every place I've interviewed have always hinted at the fact that it's not a 40 hour a week job. This may sound jaded, but companies really do expect to get more than what they pay for, and it's not just the silicon valley ones. I think the real issue is that most programmers feel a dedication and passion to what they do and they want to see the project succeed, and so the get taken advantage of.
    - copperx 10y ago
      It's ridiculous to frame it like that. I'm sure most surgeons also want to make sure their patients benefit from a surgery, but I'm sure they don't get taken advantage of.
- deskamess 10y ago
  I read those stories and wondered when they got time to be 'pampered'. For the jobs listed, if they averaged out the compensation/hours-worked it would be interesting to see what the numbers are (with and without RSU).
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1888franklin 10y ago
The "dark side" described here is programmers not using our labor power for the right things, not really a downside to having labor power. Instead of being seduced by fancy campuses, we can insist on better working conditions. I work 15 hours/week, mostly on my own schedule, with low pressure. My free time is more important to me than a six figure salary, living in the valley, or free lunch. Generally speaking, programmers in the US have the labor power to shape how we work. But many of us buy into a certain idea of what success means and how to get there. Really no one to blame but ourselves on that count.
- ZeroFries 10y ago
  I would love to do this at some point. May I ask how you managed to get a 15 h/w job?
  - J_Darnley 10y ago
    He is a Linus Torvald, a John Carmack, or a Chris Sawyer. He has the skills, the experience, and the name to demand that.
    - copperx 10y ago
      I'm intrigued now. Who is this 1888franklin?
      - J_Darnley 10y ago
        Honestly, I have no idea. However, that is the kind of person he would need to be to get a 3 hour a day programming job. Or he is full of shit and talking out of his ass but that would be uncivil so I better not say that.
        Mandatum 10y ago
        Or he's a programmer with a respectable hourly rate (100+) and only works a few days a week remotely who lives in a cheap area. Any decent programmer can attain this.
nikdaheratik 10y ago
It's kind of strange for them to use the word "pampered" when a large number of the perks are basically ways for the company to justify using more of the employees "free" time by taking care of many of the day-to-day practicalities that could take them off-site, like laundry and cooking, or exercise and getting a professional to work those neck muscles to reduce the stiffness from working at a computer for 10+ hour days. I'm sure if some of them could hire a lower wage worker to sleep for them, they'd probably do that too. I don't envy the SV crowd much, but many of the perks are about maximising the amount of time the employees can work over most other considerations. And looked at through that lens, very few of the "perks" a really much in the way of pampering.

12 points by dannylandau 10y ago

CM30 10y ago

Which seems to present the interesting divide between European software engineers and American ones. In the US, you get pampered, but seem to have lots of late nights, 'crunch' time, etc. In Europe, you get far lower wages but it's treated almost solely as a 9-5 job.

sotojuan 10y ago
A lot (maybe most) programming jobs in the US are 9-5 but they're not at companies or places HN would be interested in discussing.
- deskamess 10y ago
  Unfortunately there are a lot of jobs in North America that are stated as 9-5 but include unpaid on-call and overtime. There are laws that make it so that IT does not have to be paid overtime.
- kemiller2002 10y ago
  I have to disagree with this. Most IT jobs in the U.S. aren't 9-5. Every place I've interviewed have always hinted at the fact that it's not a 40 hour a week job. This may sound jaded, but companies really do expect to get more than what they pay for, and it's not just the silicon valley ones. I think the real issue is that most programmers feel a dedication and passion to what they do and they want to see the project succeed, and so the get taken advantage of.
  - copperx 10y ago
    It's ridiculous to frame it like that. I'm sure most surgeons also want to make sure their patients benefit from a surgery, but I'm sure they don't get taken advantage of.
deskamess 10y ago
I read those stories and wondered when they got time to be 'pampered'. For the jobs listed, if they averaged out the compensation/hours-worked it would be interesting to see what the numbers are (with and without RSU).

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1888franklin 10y ago

The "dark side" described here is programmers not using our labor power for the right things, not really a downside to having labor power. Instead of being seduced by fancy campuses, we can insist on better working conditions. I work 15 hours/week, mostly on my own schedule, with low pressure. My free time is more important to me than a six figure salary, living in the valley, or free lunch. Generally speaking, programmers in the US have the labor power to shape how we work. But many of us buy into a certain idea of what success means and how to get there. Really no one to blame but ourselves on that count.

ZeroFries 10y ago
I would love to do this at some point. May I ask how you managed to get a 15 h/w job?
- J_Darnley 10y ago
  He is a Linus Torvald, a John Carmack, or a Chris Sawyer. He has the skills, the experience, and the name to demand that.
  - copperx 10y ago
    I'm intrigued now. Who is this 1888franklin?
    - J_Darnley 10y ago
      Honestly, I have no idea. However, that is the kind of person he would need to be to get a 3 hour a day programming job. Or he is full of shit and talking out of his ass but that would be uncivil so I better not say that.
      - Mandatum 10y ago
        Or he's a programmer with a respectable hourly rate (100+) and only works a few days a week remotely who lives in a cheap area. Any decent programmer can attain this.

nikdaheratik 10y ago

It's kind of strange for them to use the word "pampered" when a large number of the perks are basically ways for the company to justify using more of the employees "free" time by taking care of many of the day-to-day practicalities that could take them off-site, like laundry and cooking, or exercise and getting a professional to work those neck muscles to reduce the stiffness from working at a computer for 10+ hour days. I'm sure if some of them could hire a lower wage worker to sleep for them, they'd probably do that too. I don't envy the SV crowd much, but many of the perks are about maximising the amount of time the employees can work over most other considerations. And looked at through that lens, very few of the "perks" a really much in the way of pampering.