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>I was, but people also inflict physical suffering on themselves, from fasting to literal self-flagellation and mutilation. There have been people who offered t

>I was, but people also inflict physical suffering on themselves, from fasting to literal self-flagellation and mutilation. There have been people who offered themselves up for literal torture and sacrifice gladly This behaviour you describe is usually mediated by some kind of non-biological impulse -- like the 'certain' 'knowledge' that the Hairy Thunderer/Cosmic Muffin will reward this suffering in some future-/afterlife. Those impulses are all related to the pointless social factors that you decry. These people suffering is still an evil, even if they ultimately inspire something that outweighs the evil of their suffering (religious revolution, buying time/forgiveness for their loved ones, etc). Plus, you're still splitting hairs because it's not like these individuals are feeling pleasure or not anticipating pain uncomfortably. Next up, BDSM! >>>You're simply trying to exploit a "hack" in my social animal brain, which is that if you tell me that something is wrong, you are telling me that other members of the human herd will judge me unfavorably and perhaps ostracize me or otherwise punish me. Some people, but not very many, will be swayed by your attempted brain-exploit. But I, again, observe that my conscious feels guilt-free, which is a very strong sign that the people I am surrounded by do not, in fact, disapprove of my eating meat, and also that the vast majority of people I know actually eat meat. So somewhere in my hindbrain, I realize that you are (from my perspective) lying to me, and it will make me instinctively resentful of you, because you have marked yourself as a member of The Other You typed this, right? Then you typed: >> and your self-described thresholds for othering members of your social circle. >I was describing how people in general work, not 'othering members of my social circle.' People do not respond positively to being told something they do or like is evil. I don't think that is a controversial statement Is this how 'people in general work', or is this you Othering someone? Did your interlocutor turn out to be utilizing the technique you perceived him to be?

Dylan16807 10y ago
> Is this how 'people in general work' Yes. > or is this you Othering someone? Who would be othered by that statement? > Did your interlocutor turn out to be utilizing the technique you perceived him to be? That statement is about a fact, not anyone else in the conversation, so it doesn't matter.
- justratsinacoat 10y ago
  >> Is this how 'people in general work' >Yes. Well, that was a quick 'discussion'! Glad you came along! Thanks for the downvote!
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    > Well, that was a quick 'discussion'! Glad you came along! You're welcome! The discussion of how there is an impulse for people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning, is very well established. It's not worth wasting time on a weird side argument about it. The answer is just 'yes, that happens a lot'. Edit: > Thanks for the downvote! Hey, feel free to continue with the rest of the conversation without me. I'm not going to judge. I'm only going to snip at weird unproductive semi-insulting tangents.
    - justratsinacoat 10y ago
      >The discussion of how there is an impulse for people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning, is very well established. It's not worth wasting time on a weird side argument about it. The answer is just 'yes, that happens a lot'. What the hell? I guess that's what I must have been talking about! Thanks for informing me of what I was talking about! I totally agree that "people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning"; I'm experiencing it right now! Of course, now that you've shaped the discussion toward your end, I won't even try to have a 'conversation' with you. >Hey, feel free to continue with the rest of the conversation without me. I'm not going to judge. I'm only going to snip at weird unproductive semi-insulting tangents With unproductive semi-insulting tangents; it's almost like-- ah, sorry, everything is suddenly illuminated. Carry on.
      - Dylan16807 10y ago
        > Thanks for informing me of what I was talking about! That's what the line you quoted said. If you were replying to something else, you screwed up quoting. I can't tell you what you meant, but I can tell you what you quoted and said 'is this true?' about. I'm not trying to shape the discussion as a whole, I'm trying to say "that one line? don't do that" I did reply to an off-topic line with an off-topic line. I wanted to be clear what I was downvoting, and that it wasn't your opinion.

Dylan16807 10y ago

> Is this how 'people in general work' Yes. > or is this you Othering someone? Who would be othered by that statement? > Did your interlocutor turn out to be utilizing the technique you perceived him to be? That statement is about a fact, not anyone else in the conversation, so it doesn't matter.

justratsinacoat 10y ago
>> Is this how 'people in general work' >Yes. Well, that was a quick 'discussion'! Glad you came along! Thanks for the downvote!
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  > Well, that was a quick 'discussion'! Glad you came along! You're welcome! The discussion of how there is an impulse for people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning, is very well established. It's not worth wasting time on a weird side argument about it. The answer is just 'yes, that happens a lot'. Edit: > Thanks for the downvote! Hey, feel free to continue with the rest of the conversation without me. I'm not going to judge. I'm only going to snip at weird unproductive semi-insulting tangents.
  - justratsinacoat 10y ago
    >The discussion of how there is an impulse for people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning, is very well established. It's not worth wasting time on a weird side argument about it. The answer is just 'yes, that happens a lot'. What the hell? I guess that's what I must have been talking about! Thanks for informing me of what I was talking about! I totally agree that "people to get upset and defensive when told they're wrong, and how it impedes learning"; I'm experiencing it right now! Of course, now that you've shaped the discussion toward your end, I won't even try to have a 'conversation' with you. >Hey, feel free to continue with the rest of the conversation without me. I'm not going to judge. I'm only going to snip at weird unproductive semi-insulting tangents With unproductive semi-insulting tangents; it's almost like-- ah, sorry, everything is suddenly illuminated. Carry on.
    - Dylan16807 10y ago
      > Thanks for informing me of what I was talking about! That's what the line you quoted said. If you were replying to something else, you screwed up quoting. I can't tell you what you meant, but I can tell you what you quoted and said 'is this true?' about. I'm not trying to shape the discussion as a whole, I'm trying to say "that one line? don't do that" I did reply to an off-topic line with an off-topic line. I wanted to be clear what I was downvoting, and that it wasn't your opinion.