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How exactly does Apple's payment system work for companies that are cross platform? If I have a Dropcam subscription and am using the ios app, is Dropcam paying

How exactly does Apple's payment system work for companies that are cross platform? If I have a Dropcam subscription and am using the ios app, is Dropcam paying Apple 15% of my subscription cost? That seems nuts.

ludwigvan 10y ago
Depends on from where you signed up. If you signed up inside the app, 30%. Outside, 0.
iLoch 10y ago
IIRC any subscriptions and/or purchases driven by apps downloaded from the App Store are subject to a fee paid to Apple. That's according to their (garbage) App Store rules.
- coldtea 10y ago
  Are there many commercial stores (especially one pushing 50 billions of product) without such "garbage" (sic) rules?
  - Oletros 10y ago
    Google, for example
    - st3v3r 10y ago
      Nope. They have plenty of garbage rules of their own. Also, they have the same rule Apple does in this case.
      - Oletros 10y ago
        No, they don't have the same rule, nor Spotify, nor Netflix nor Amazon music have to use Google payment system
        st3v3r 10y ago
        https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ Right there. "Developers offering products within another category of app downloaded on Google Play must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of payment" The exceptions are for physical things, and for things that can be used outside of the app. You can't use a Spotify subscription outside of Spotify.
        Tiksi 10y ago
        You can absolutely use it outside of the iOS Spotify app.
        MBCook 10y ago
        Sorry for the accidental down vote. Dead on correct.
        Oletros 10y ago
        No, dead on incorrect
        Oletros 10y ago
        The full rule > Payment is for digital content that may be consumed outside of the app itself (e.g. songs that can be played on other music players). As Spotify music can be used outside the Goole Play app, Google doesn't take a cute. The same reason I can buy Kindle ebooks within the Android app
  - ominous 10y ago
    Commercial stores? I pay for the app, not for the store. I use Aquamail: http://www.aqua-mail.com/?page_id=22 http://www.aqua-mail.com/?page_id=22 I paid the developer for a license and don't need a special "app store" to use it. What is all this talk about "rules" that specify which binary files I can run on a general purpose machine? Can you sideload apps in iOS? Oh right. It is the current year again and everyone loves the iPhone because it is shiny, forgot you can install apps on your own, and prefer to have a gatekeeper do it for them. Carry on.
    - zepto 10y ago
      If you were paying attention, you would see that it's completely acceptable for people to sign up for Spotify and pay directly at the Spotify website, and then use the app with that subscription. Apple is doing nothing to interfere with the scenario that you outline and will happily distribute millions of Spotify binaries in support of that. Your anger is misplaced.
mackey 10y ago
If you subscribe through the iOS app, Apple gets 30% of the subscription. That 30% drops to 15% after a year. You also can't advertise signing up for the subscription outside of the app.
- cassieramen 10y ago
  Oh wow, that's harsh. I can't believe you aren't allowed to direct people to the web experience. That must seriously erode margins for hardware folks.
  - fabianhoward 10y ago
    Not quite sure what you mean by hardware folks? Any physical good sold in an app from the Apple App Store has to be processed by the vendors payment processor not by Apple.
  - joemi 10y ago
    This practice is common in digital marketplaces. For instance, Amazon doesn't allow Marketplace Sellers (people who aren't Amazon but sell goods on Amazon.com) to: - link to a non-Amazon webpage - provide buyers with a phone number or email address to reach them at - or any other thing that could funnel sales outside of Amazon
- ashwinl 10y ago
  >> You also can't advertise signing up for the subscription outside of the app. Amazon Prime does this, no. In the Amazon iOS app, you can browse, but cannot buy items. You can still login using your Prime account.
  - mackey 10y ago
    In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than IAP. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/
dandelany 10y ago
Yes - and it's 30%. Previously, Spotify would charge $9.99/month for a subscription through their website, or $12.99 for a subscription purchased through the iOS app, to cover this cost. In the most recent version of the iOS app, they decided to disallow in-app subscriptions entirely and push all subscriptions to the web app. IIUC this is the app update that has been blocked by Apple... (disclaimer: I work for Spotify)
- a_small_island 10y ago
  >IIUC First time seeing this, but it's If I Understand Correctly for those who didn't know either.
- k-mcgrady 10y ago
  >> "In the most recent version of the iOS app, they decided to disallow in-app subscriptions entirely and push all subscriptions to the web app." We should be clear about this though as doing that is not against the rules. Take the Kindle app for example. You can buy books through the Amazon website and use them in the app. Apple doesn't get a cut. Spotify can do the same thing. The issue is that there are very specific rules around it - for example I don't believe you can include a 'sign up' button that throws the user out of the app to your payment page. It sounds like Spotify was trying to get around this by sending the user an email when they signed up through the app, and telling them to look in the email for a link to the payment page. At least this is what I've read over the last couple of days.
  - dandelany 10y ago
    Thanks, this is an important point. I'm not sure exactly what Apple allows/disallows in terms of informing users about other payment options, or what Spotify is doing that would be in violation of these rules, but this is the crux of the disagreement.
    - MBCook 10y ago
      My understanding is that you're allowed to sell things however you want, but inside the app you have to use Apple's purchase methods. You can't use your own, and you can't put directions in the app to go to a website or something else to purchase content. So in the app you have to do what Amazon does and never show it by button or a "how to buy" button. And just for extra clarity, Apples policies only apply to digital goods. If you buy a real world service or physical item through an app Apple does not take a cut, but they also don't handle the payment. That's why Amazon doesn't have to pay Apple 30% when you buy a new TV from them.

ludwigvan 10y ago

Depends on from where you signed up. If you signed up inside the app, 30%. Outside, 0.

iLoch 10y ago

IIRC any subscriptions and/or purchases driven by apps downloaded from the App Store are subject to a fee paid to Apple. That's according to their (garbage) App Store rules.

coldtea 10y ago
Are there many commercial stores (especially one pushing 50 billions of product) without such "garbage" (sic) rules?
- Oletros 10y ago
  Google, for example
  - st3v3r 10y ago
    Nope. They have plenty of garbage rules of their own. Also, they have the same rule Apple does in this case.
    - Oletros 10y ago
      No, they don't have the same rule, nor Spotify, nor Netflix nor Amazon music have to use Google payment system
      - st3v3r 10y ago
        https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ https://play.google.com/about/monetization-ads/ Right there. "Developers offering products within another category of app downloaded on Google Play must use Google Play In-app Billing as the method of payment" The exceptions are for physical things, and for things that can be used outside of the app. You can't use a Spotify subscription outside of Spotify.
        Tiksi 10y ago
        You can absolutely use it outside of the iOS Spotify app.
        MBCook 10y ago
        Sorry for the accidental down vote. Dead on correct.
        Oletros 10y ago
        No, dead on incorrect
        Oletros 10y ago
        The full rule > Payment is for digital content that may be consumed outside of the app itself (e.g. songs that can be played on other music players). As Spotify music can be used outside the Goole Play app, Google doesn't take a cute. The same reason I can buy Kindle ebooks within the Android app
- ominous 10y ago
  Commercial stores? I pay for the app, not for the store. I use Aquamail: http://www.aqua-mail.com/?page_id=22 http://www.aqua-mail.com/?page_id=22 I paid the developer for a license and don't need a special "app store" to use it. What is all this talk about "rules" that specify which binary files I can run on a general purpose machine? Can you sideload apps in iOS? Oh right. It is the current year again and everyone loves the iPhone because it is shiny, forgot you can install apps on your own, and prefer to have a gatekeeper do it for them. Carry on.
  - zepto 10y ago
    If you were paying attention, you would see that it's completely acceptable for people to sign up for Spotify and pay directly at the Spotify website, and then use the app with that subscription. Apple is doing nothing to interfere with the scenario that you outline and will happily distribute millions of Spotify binaries in support of that. Your anger is misplaced.

mackey 10y ago

If you subscribe through the iOS app, Apple gets 30% of the subscription. That 30% drops to 15% after a year. You also can't advertise signing up for the subscription outside of the app.

cassieramen 10y ago
Oh wow, that's harsh. I can't believe you aren't allowed to direct people to the web experience. That must seriously erode margins for hardware folks.
- fabianhoward 10y ago
  Not quite sure what you mean by hardware folks? Any physical good sold in an app from the Apple App Store has to be processed by the vendors payment processor not by Apple.
- joemi 10y ago
  This practice is common in digital marketplaces. For instance, Amazon doesn't allow Marketplace Sellers (people who aren't Amazon but sell goods on Amazon.com) to: - link to a non-Amazon webpage - provide buyers with a phone number or email address to reach them at - or any other thing that could funnel sales outside of Amazon
ashwinl 10y ago
>> You also can't advertise signing up for the subscription outside of the app. Amazon Prime does this, no. In the Amazon iOS app, you can browse, but cannot buy items. You can still login using your Prime account.
- mackey 10y ago
  In-App Purchase: If you want to unlock features or functionality within your app, (by way of example: subscriptions, in-game currencies, game levels, access to premium content, or unlocking a full version), you must use in-app purchase. Apps may not include buttons, external links, or other calls to action that direct customers to purchasing mechanisms other than IAP. https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/ https://developer.apple.com/app-store/review/guidelines/

dandelany 10y ago

Yes - and it's 30%. Previously, Spotify would charge $9.99/month for a subscription through their website, or $12.99 for a subscription purchased through the iOS app, to cover this cost. In the most recent version of the iOS app, they decided to disallow in-app subscriptions entirely and push all subscriptions to the web app. IIUC this is the app update that has been blocked by Apple... (disclaimer: I work for Spotify)

a_small_island 10y ago
>IIUC First time seeing this, but it's If I Understand Correctly for those who didn't know either.
k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "In the most recent version of the iOS app, they decided to disallow in-app subscriptions entirely and push all subscriptions to the web app." We should be clear about this though as doing that is not against the rules. Take the Kindle app for example. You can buy books through the Amazon website and use them in the app. Apple doesn't get a cut. Spotify can do the same thing. The issue is that there are very specific rules around it - for example I don't believe you can include a 'sign up' button that throws the user out of the app to your payment page. It sounds like Spotify was trying to get around this by sending the user an email when they signed up through the app, and telling them to look in the email for a link to the payment page. At least this is what I've read over the last couple of days.
- dandelany 10y ago
  Thanks, this is an important point. I'm not sure exactly what Apple allows/disallows in terms of informing users about other payment options, or what Spotify is doing that would be in violation of these rules, but this is the crux of the disagreement.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    My understanding is that you're allowed to sell things however you want, but inside the app you have to use Apple's purchase methods. You can't use your own, and you can't put directions in the app to go to a website or something else to purchase content. So in the app you have to do what Amazon does and never show it by button or a "how to buy" button. And just for extra clarity, Apples policies only apply to digital goods. If you buy a real world service or physical item through an app Apple does not take a cut, but they also don't handle the payment. That's why Amazon doesn't have to pay Apple 30% when you buy a new TV from them.