4 ms·

Personally I love the fact that people try to beat the house. And to play devil's advocate for a second, the fact that consistently winning is even possible sh

by Mikeb85 10y ago

Personally I love the fact that people try to beat the house. And to play devil's advocate for a second, the fact that consistently winning is even possible should just drive more business.

TheCowboy 10y ago
I feel that the idea, that consistently winning is possible, is partially a myth, but it persists among casino regulars. I know people who do this or have in the past, and the big problem is eventually getting banned from various casinos. It seems rather one-sided to me, but legally they're allowed to ban people for consistently winning.
- jly 10y ago
  Yes, getting banned is the other obstacle. Any casino won't take long to ban anyone clearly playing with an advantage. This makes it even harder to do for the long haul, which is what you need to take advantage of the edge.
- johnwatson11218 10y ago
  What about this issue that big winnings would be taxed but you would only be allowed to deduct a certain amount of your losses each year - otherwise people could claim unlimited losses. Even if you had a slight advantage over the house I don't see how you could beat the tax system.
  - TheCowboy 10y ago
    That's not how gambling taxes work. You can't claim unlimited losses. Filing as a professional gambler allows you to net your wins and losses, usually defined as a session of play. If winning is so volatile that you have frequent winning years and significant losing years, then yes it could be a problem since you can't report negative income. I've only heard of winning players having negative years when accepting risk beyond what their bankroll and access to games year-round can over (for example, high high stakes games are not that common).
- ferentchak 10y ago
  My grandfather plays a video poker game called Deuces Wild and when the payouts are set just right and you play perfect you have a slightly over 100% payout. He has been playing for over a decade in Mesquite Nevada and has been making a slight profit year after year. When you add in points rewards you can end up doing ok in free steaks and massages. The casino knows he wins and is fine with it. My guess is that they like the fact that he is willing to try and help people learn how to play perfectly (which is not trivial) and that makes the other customers play more and essentially cover the small amount of profit he makes.
  - gabemart 10y ago
    Sounds like you are talking about what's often called "Full Pay" Deuces Wild http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/deuces-wild/ http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/deuces-wild...
    - ferentchak 10y ago
      Yeah that's the term he uses.
  - TheCowboy 10y ago
    That's a cool anecdote. Nice for him. It never hurts to be friendly and approachable, and it almost sounds like he's an honorary employee. And machines like that are hard to find.
joezydeco 10y ago
People try to find loopholes and workarounds in everything, it's human nature. Ask any pentester.
jly 10y ago
Well, 'consistently winning' may be a stretch. In these cases, advantage players have a small edge, but the chances of winning or losing any given hand in blackjack is still pretty close to a coin flip. You may win or lose big in any given session/day/week, etc. Given enough time and effort, they will eventually win, if they don't run out of money first. It is possible to do this, but not without gambling a lot more than almost anyone is willing to do. It's hard work. Having said that, the perception that it's possible probably helps to drive more business.

by Mikeb85 10y ago

Personally I love the fact that people try to beat the house. And to play devil's advocate for a second, the fact that consistently winning is even possible should just drive more business.

TheCowboy 10y ago

I feel that the idea, that consistently winning is possible, is partially a myth, but it persists among casino regulars. I know people who do this or have in the past, and the big problem is eventually getting banned from various casinos. It seems rather one-sided to me, but legally they're allowed to ban people for consistently winning.

jly 10y ago
Yes, getting banned is the other obstacle. Any casino won't take long to ban anyone clearly playing with an advantage. This makes it even harder to do for the long haul, which is what you need to take advantage of the edge.
johnwatson11218 10y ago
What about this issue that big winnings would be taxed but you would only be allowed to deduct a certain amount of your losses each year - otherwise people could claim unlimited losses. Even if you had a slight advantage over the house I don't see how you could beat the tax system.
- TheCowboy 10y ago
  That's not how gambling taxes work. You can't claim unlimited losses. Filing as a professional gambler allows you to net your wins and losses, usually defined as a session of play. If winning is so volatile that you have frequent winning years and significant losing years, then yes it could be a problem since you can't report negative income. I've only heard of winning players having negative years when accepting risk beyond what their bankroll and access to games year-round can over (for example, high high stakes games are not that common).
ferentchak 10y ago
My grandfather plays a video poker game called Deuces Wild and when the payouts are set just right and you play perfect you have a slightly over 100% payout. He has been playing for over a decade in Mesquite Nevada and has been making a slight profit year after year. When you add in points rewards you can end up doing ok in free steaks and massages. The casino knows he wins and is fine with it. My guess is that they like the fact that he is willing to try and help people learn how to play perfectly (which is not trivial) and that makes the other customers play more and essentially cover the small amount of profit he makes.
- gabemart 10y ago
  Sounds like you are talking about what's often called "Full Pay" Deuces Wild http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/deuces-wild/ http://wizardofodds.com/games/video-poker/tables/deuces-wild...
  - ferentchak 10y ago
    Yeah that's the term he uses.
- TheCowboy 10y ago
  That's a cool anecdote. Nice for him. It never hurts to be friendly and approachable, and it almost sounds like he's an honorary employee. And machines like that are hard to find.

joezydeco 10y ago

People try to find loopholes and workarounds in everything, it's human nature. Ask any pentester.

jly 10y ago

Well, 'consistently winning' may be a stretch. In these cases, advantage players have a small edge, but the chances of winning or losing any given hand in blackjack is still pretty close to a coin flip. You may win or lose big in any given session/day/week, etc. Given enough time and effort, they will eventually win, if they don't run out of money first. It is possible to do this, but not without gambling a lot more than almost anyone is willing to do. It's hard work. Having said that, the perception that it's possible probably helps to drive more business.