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After ‘Brexit,’ Finding a New London for the Financial World to Call Home

55 points by edward 10y ago

gonvaled 10y ago
Why is English so important? You are going to speak it in the workplace, for sure, but why do you need that the people in the street are fluent in English? The couple of sentences that you'll exchange in the restaurant will come through even if people are not fluent.
- corin_ 10y ago
  One reason is that more people will be willing to move somewhere they understand the language. Sure you can get by in many places without knowing the language, but if you're going to live there for any significant length of time you're going to have to choose between learning it (a time commitment) or not fitting into society. Some people are happy with one or the other of those options, some people wouldn't be. You also make moving somewhere more complicated. When I moved from UK to Paris, I was fine with work, with socialising, but my French was (and still isn't) nearly good enough to deal with government paperwork, appartment searching, reading up on tax law... etc. Sure, this problem can be solved either by the country making it easier for forigners, or by people moving paying for somebody to help them in these areas, but again its another barrier and/or additional cost. There's also the matter of local work-related communications. Anything from taxis to tax offices, courier/mail services, etc...
- chha 10y ago
  Primarily because not _every_ worker will be moved when a company moves. A lot of the workforce will be local, hence the language requirements.
  - bodyfour 10y ago
    In most places it wouldn't be hard to just declare that the workplace is English-speaking. The problem is that if you want to attract non-local talent, it's harder to attract them somewhere where they'll have trouble with day-to-day life. English-speaking countries have a big advantage here: no matter what nationality a professional has they probably speak English well enough to be comfortable living there. As another poster mentioned there are cities where the overall English proficiency is so high that it matters less (Stockholm, Berlin, Amsterdam, ...)
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    You'll find qualified people with good english level just about everywhere.
- jsingleton 10y ago
  It's not in some places. You can easily get by in Stockholm, and to some extent Berlin, with just English. Then learn the local language gradually if you stay there. In fact it can be difficult to speak the native language as people will talk to you in English as soon as they realize you're not native. I've actually had a harder time conversing with people in some parts of Scotland by phone, due to our different accents, than in some parts of Europe. Even though we both speak English as a first language. The UK can have bigger internal differences than the rest of the English speaking world. Some of this is down to the international (US) English used in non-native English speaking places. I had to write my book on ASP.NET Core in American English, which took some getting used to. :)
  - StudyAnimal 10y ago
    Surely when writing a technical book, rather than a novel about some specifically English people or in a English context, it would be hard to make it specifically British rather than international English. I am trying to think of scenarios where englishms could even occur in an ASP.NET book.
    - jsingleton 10y ago
      I'm not saying it shouldn't be in international English, it definitely should. It just takes a bit of getting used to if that's not how you write already. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0863046/quotes?item=qt0449604 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0863046/quotes?item=qt0449604
- brianfitz 10y ago
  Because those companies will hire from the population living in those cities. English is the international language of business, so all things being equal, you'd choose a population that is fluent in English as a second language.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    All things are not equal, that's the point of the article. My grudge is that it gives english too much weight.
- michaelt 10y ago
  Firstly, if you think people who move to a country and don't learn the language well are assholes, and you don't want to be an asshole. Second, you may need a decent command of the local language to access services and deal with the local authorities. For example, getting your car back if it's towed. Figuring out whether you can get a visa for that foreign consultant. Expressing your views to your political representatives. Getting emergency care at a hospital. Understanding laws written in the local language. Passing a driving test. Talking to your children's teachers. Working out how much you'll be taxed on that thing you're considering having imported.
  - alkonaut 10y ago
    I think scoring high on the list in the article requires that you can do all of the above with ease, without learning the language. That would be the case in e.g. Stockholm, Amsterdam, but perhaps more difficult in Paris or Barcelona.
  - gonvaled 10y ago
    Then learn the language? We have learnt english just fine ...
crdoconnor 10y ago
http://www.wewilldrivethemtotheairport.co.uk/ http://www.wewilldrivethemtotheairport.co.uk/
- J_Darnley 10y ago
  Ha ha ha. Excellent.
- dingaling 10y ago
  Would probably be better if they didn't use a BMW light-cluster in the banner. What with it being German. Perhaps a Toyota Avensis, built in Derbyshire...?
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    That site was set up in 2013, when the EU moved to cap banker's bonuses, and the UK government went to court to stop them doing so. So the German car is appropriate.
realo 10y ago
Well... Actually it would seem that Scotland would really like to become independent and be part of the EU. That article should have considered Edimburg, even if it might have been a journalistic faux-pas.
- s_kilk 10y ago
  If Scotland gets its Independence, then Edinburgh is a great candidate for a new London for the finance industry, as it's already got a decent finance presence.
  - arethuza 10y ago
    Edinburgh is probably far too small and the centre is too protected (it's a World Heritage Site) for much development to happen here. I'll admit to possibly being a bit of NIMBY in my comment as I live and work in central Edinburgh! http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728
    - Reason077 10y ago
      Edinburgh is a similar size to Zurich - a city regarded as one of the world's most important financial centres.
      - arethuza 10y ago
        What I meant is that I doubt Edinburgh could handle an influx of additional bankers on a large scale. I don't think there would be many places for them to go in the actual city itself.
      - dagw 10y ago
        Depends on how you count. If you include everything that is within a reasonable train/bus commute of the city center then Zurich has at least double the "population" of Edinburgh.
    - s_kilk 10y ago
lordnacho 10y ago
There's an ongoing offshoring of certain divisions anyway, something the article alludes to with the Polish IT staff. That kind of thing is Brexit independent. Michelin stars are not synonymous with having good restaurants. Something like a good steakhouse is not captured my Michelin, which is a very narrow definition of good food. There's also the requirement of variety, which London does extremely well: food from many different cultures, at different price points. It's also not that clear that Brexit will force finance away from London, which is well entrenched.
- varjag 10y ago
  > Something like a good steakhouse is not captured my Michelin, which is a very narrow definition of good food. Michelin rates all kinds of places, including sushi bars, Chinese takeaways and steakhouses.
  - lordnacho 10y ago
    Yes, but most cities have only a handful of Michelin places. There's no reason to think a city with a few rated restaurants will have more numerous or varied restaurants.
- jakozaur 10y ago
  Yes this is global trend, that a lot of financial people will be moved out of global hubs (like New York, London) and be employed in smaller cities such as Jaksonville, Madrid or Warsaw: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e1ece4fa-17ac-11e6-bb7d-ee563a5a1cc1.html#axzz4D9bGhGmM http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e1ece4fa-17ac-11e6-bb7d-ee563a5a1c... Though Brexit hasn't caused this and staying in EU won't prevent it from happening (probably cheaper housing would help the most). However it may accelerate some of this trends.
- simonh 10y ago
  > It's also not that clear that Brexit will force finance away from London, which is well entrenched. Maybe not all, but a lot. Over the last few decades London has captured a lot of business that has to be conducted within the EU for regulatory and legal reasons. One example is clearing trades; London clearing houses have captured about 80% of clearing activity from exchanges all across Europe. there are many others. Another is the LSE/Berlin stock exchange merger which was going to see the German exchange hosted and operating from London. That deal will not now happen. Unless London keeps it's financial services 'passporting' arrangements, much business conducted in London will have to be conducted within the EU. London will not keep it's passporting rights though. The EU is built on four fundamental principles. The free exchange on good, services, capital and workers. These are inextricably linked. Since canceling the free movement of workers was the defining issue of the referendum, we will lose all four. Thus the referendum result in incompatible with membership of the European Economic Area or any similar agreement. Think about it this way. Is it fair for London to have the right to conduct business on behalf of EU businesses in London, but EU workers not to have a right to work in those London businesses? If London businesses can trade in the EU under EU rules, then EU companies should be able to set up business in London under EU rules but won't be able to because London won't be part of the EU. That's how the EU thinks about these things. They would see such an arrangement as a fundamental betrayal of their own citizen's rights. Finally, according to EU law no member country can negotiate trade agreements with the EU, or other EU countries, or countries outside the EU. That means by law, we cannot even start to negotiate any deals with anyone until _after_ we officially exit the EU, which will probably 2 years after invoking Article 50. These deals can take many years, it took Canada 7 years to negotiate the latest deal and that's still waiting on ratification by all member governments which is likely to take another couple of years. Our economy will be operating under bare minimum WTO rules with no special provisions with anyone anywhere for _years_. Our best option may be to exit the EU, then immediately apply for European Economic Area membership under default terms. Since we're already compliant with all the regulations, we should be able to fast track that, but it would still probably take 2 years or more during which we will be cut out of large swathes of the EU financial services industry. That business will have to be conducted somewhere, but it won't be in London. It would also mean totally betraying many key issues in the referendum though. So this all doesn't mean London will stop being a center for finance, but when we talk about a large, double digit percentage of business leaving London it's not because people want to take that business elsewhere, it's because they will be legally obliged to.
yAnonymous 10y ago
>Badly hurt by the financial crisis, the Dutch have capped bankers’ bonuses at just 20 percent of their annual salaries — a far more drastic curb than was imposed by the European Union. Several bankers told me that unless the Dutch repealed the cap, they wouldn’t consider moving to Amsterdam. “I’d love to relocate to Amsterdam,” one top executive told me. “But I don’t think we’re wanted there.” My deepest sympathy goes out to the poor bankers.
- varjag 10y ago
  If there is market incentive to move banking to Holland, it will happen. The bankers will move where the jobs go, they don't have much say in the matter.
  - clort 10y ago
    what is market incentive? I'm not sure we can separate the incentive effects of the company making more money, or the bankers themselves making more money. The people at the top of these companies are bankers themselves, and they have bonuses too.
    - varjag 10y ago
      Profit differential in billions on investments would be a great market incentive. Good luck holding this off by forming a mid-level bank clerk conspiracy circle.
  - yAnonymous 10y ago
    They are basically giving the bonuses to themselves, so if they can't do that, there goes the incentive to move to that country.
    - varjag 10y ago
      They then become unemployed as people whose money they manage move them to places with better ROI. Cruel world we live in!
    - 10y ago
SoleSoul 10y ago
New Londo
- s_kilk 10y ago
  Appropriate, given most of the UK will look like the New Londo Ruins soon enough.
randomname2 10y ago
Some banks are already backtracking on their promises of leaving London for Paris or Frankfurt [1] [2]. [1] http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/30/hsbc-rules-out-leaving-london-after-brexit-vote/ http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/30/hsbc-rules-out-leaving-l... [2] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-headquarters-london-flint-brexit-eu-referendum-passporting-a7111236.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-headqua...
- hyperbovine 10y ago
  Backtracking all around!
- tonyedgecombe 10y ago
  I don't think you can read too much into these sorts of statements, whichever way they point. They have existing staff they need to keep happy for the moment.
- simonh 10y ago
  They are not backtracking, HSBC have never said they would move their HQ out of London. Since 2/3 of their business is in Asia it doesn't make as much difference if London is in the EU or not compared to many other banks. What HSBC have said is that they may move about 1,000 jobs to Paris. That's because those jobs are tied to services that by law must be provided within the EU legal and regulatory environment. When London leaves that environment those jobs will go, not just at HSBC but across our financial sector. See my other larger post on this page for further details.
  - randomname2 10y ago
    It was reported in the media and by politicians as, "banks will move to Paris and to Frankfurt if Brexit happens", and articles like this only perpetuate that talking point.
bodyfour 10y ago
One thing this article doesn't mention is the political risk in each place. Amsterdam is ranked high, but many consider it The Netherlands the next "domino to fall" since the far-right anti-EU party is polling so well there. So if you move business there, you might be back to square one a year later.
Bromskloss 10y ago
Why does it have to be in the EU? Can it not remain in London (or in New York)?
- lukasm 10y ago
  It's all about risk. If the negotiation fall through and GB won't have access to the single market it makes sense to move the business. If you want to trade with a customer in France you may be legally required to have a business there or in EU.
restalis 10y ago
For your own health's sake, please consider the next place to have a nicer weather, like Malta or something!
yvdriess 10y ago
Wait, Brussels was not even on the list?
allendoerfer 10y ago
> Its population of 2.5 million could absorb a large influx of financial professionals. Frankfurt is just growing over 700k people.
- lukasm 10y ago
  From wiki Population (2014-12-31) • City 717,624 • Urban 2,221,910 • Metro 5,500,000 I wouldn't be surprised that there is 7mln that can commute to Frankfurt.
  - allendoerfer 10y ago
    Frankfurt has some smaller outpost cities, which are extremely rich like Königsberg and Bad Homburg (this is why Frankfurt is not Munich-expensive and nowhere near London-expensive) and there are a few major cities from which you can easily commute like Darmstadt, Offenbach, Wiesbaden and Mainz plus people from villages all over Hesse work in Frankfurt. Still Frankfurt itself is a small village with an airport and a few towers. The city itself calls it "the biggest village in Hesse" [0]. [0]: http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=2942&_ffmpar[_id_inhalt]=8489384 http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=2942&_ffmpar[_i...
- eru 10y ago
  Probably talking about the wider area.
johan_larson 10y ago
I'm always a bit surprised to see entries like "good restaurants and cultural offerings" on lists like these. Aren't the people these companies are trying to hire really really hardcore workaholics? How much time do they really spend going to the opera? Maybe I'm an outlier, but my own tastes in culture are amply satisfied by a decent bookstore and movie theatre, or in a pinch Amazon and Netflix, these days.
- eru 10y ago
  Even the workaholics might have some partners or family that need convincing to move to the place?
- lsd5you 10y ago
  For finance types, I would say it's largely about status - i.e. having something 'better' than other people. Even if they cannot fully appreciate these things.
- chongli 10y ago
  Good restaurants are critical for workaholics. These people don't have time to cook! As for cultural offerings? People at the top of finance make a LOT of money. They aren't just stuffing it under the mattress.
macygray 10y ago
Frankfurt got 54 points and it's said, that it lacks culture in opposite to Berlin. But Berlin is not even in the list, why?
xedarius 10y ago
The article doesn't seem to consider that London may become more attractive to the financial sector. You know what banks hate? Regulation, you know what the EU has loads of .... that's right regulation. The UK will be able to offer a environment where financial services can thrive. Seems to have worked out for Singapore, and London already has quite the head start. Interesting times.
- monk_e_boy 10y ago
  These articles are mostly FUD and partly from the bankers as a not so gentle prod to the UK government (Don't forget us, the banks) to deregulate a bit. We'll most likely get a Troy government next so deregulation is almost certain. I think London will be ok.

55 points by edward 10y ago

Why is English so important? You are going to speak it in the workplace, for sure, but why do you need that the people in the street are fluent in English? The couple of sentences that you'll exchange in the restaurant will come through even if people are not fluent.

corin_ 10y ago
One reason is that more people will be willing to move somewhere they understand the language. Sure you can get by in many places without knowing the language, but if you're going to live there for any significant length of time you're going to have to choose between learning it (a time commitment) or not fitting into society. Some people are happy with one or the other of those options, some people wouldn't be. You also make moving somewhere more complicated. When I moved from UK to Paris, I was fine with work, with socialising, but my French was (and still isn't) nearly good enough to deal with government paperwork, appartment searching, reading up on tax law... etc. Sure, this problem can be solved either by the country making it easier for forigners, or by people moving paying for somebody to help them in these areas, but again its another barrier and/or additional cost. There's also the matter of local work-related communications. Anything from taxis to tax offices, courier/mail services, etc...
chha 10y ago
Primarily because not _every_ worker will be moved when a company moves. A lot of the workforce will be local, hence the language requirements.
- bodyfour 10y ago
  In most places it wouldn't be hard to just declare that the workplace is English-speaking. The problem is that if you want to attract non-local talent, it's harder to attract them somewhere where they'll have trouble with day-to-day life. English-speaking countries have a big advantage here: no matter what nationality a professional has they probably speak English well enough to be comfortable living there. As another poster mentioned there are cities where the overall English proficiency is so high that it matters less (Stockholm, Berlin, Amsterdam, ...)
- gonvaled 10y ago
  You'll find qualified people with good english level just about everywhere.
jsingleton 10y ago
It's not in some places. You can easily get by in Stockholm, and to some extent Berlin, with just English. Then learn the local language gradually if you stay there. In fact it can be difficult to speak the native language as people will talk to you in English as soon as they realize you're not native. I've actually had a harder time conversing with people in some parts of Scotland by phone, due to our different accents, than in some parts of Europe. Even though we both speak English as a first language. The UK can have bigger internal differences than the rest of the English speaking world. Some of this is down to the international (US) English used in non-native English speaking places. I had to write my book on ASP.NET Core in American English, which took some getting used to. :)
- StudyAnimal 10y ago
  Surely when writing a technical book, rather than a novel about some specifically English people or in a English context, it would be hard to make it specifically British rather than international English. I am trying to think of scenarios where englishms could even occur in an ASP.NET book.
  - jsingleton 10y ago
    I'm not saying it shouldn't be in international English, it definitely should. It just takes a bit of getting used to if that's not how you write already. http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0863046/quotes?item=qt0449604 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0863046/quotes?item=qt0449604
brianfitz 10y ago
Because those companies will hire from the population living in those cities. English is the international language of business, so all things being equal, you'd choose a population that is fluent in English as a second language.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  All things are not equal, that's the point of the article. My grudge is that it gives english too much weight.
michaelt 10y ago
Firstly, if you think people who move to a country and don't learn the language well are assholes, and you don't want to be an asshole. Second, you may need a decent command of the local language to access services and deal with the local authorities. For example, getting your car back if it's towed. Figuring out whether you can get a visa for that foreign consultant. Expressing your views to your political representatives. Getting emergency care at a hospital. Understanding laws written in the local language. Passing a driving test. Talking to your children's teachers. Working out how much you'll be taxed on that thing you're considering having imported.
- alkonaut 10y ago
  I think scoring high on the list in the article requires that you can do all of the above with ease, without learning the language. That would be the case in e.g. Stockholm, Amsterdam, but perhaps more difficult in Paris or Barcelona.
- gonvaled 10y ago
  Then learn the language? We have learnt english just fine ...

crdoconnor 10y ago

http://www.wewilldrivethemtotheairport.co.uk/ http://www.wewilldrivethemtotheairport.co.uk/

J_Darnley 10y ago
Ha ha ha. Excellent.
dingaling 10y ago
Would probably be better if they didn't use a BMW light-cluster in the banner. What with it being German. Perhaps a Toyota Avensis, built in Derbyshire...?
- ZeroGravitas 10y ago
  That site was set up in 2013, when the EU moved to cap banker's bonuses, and the UK government went to court to stop them doing so. So the German car is appropriate.

realo 10y ago

Well... Actually it would seem that Scotland would really like to become independent and be part of the EU. That article should have considered Edimburg, even if it might have been a journalistic faux-pas.

s_kilk 10y ago
If Scotland gets its Independence, then Edinburgh is a great candidate for a new London for the finance industry, as it's already got a decent finance presence.
- arethuza 10y ago
  Edinburgh is probably far too small and the centre is too protected (it's a World Heritage Site) for much development to happen here. I'll admit to possibly being a bit of NIMBY in my comment as I live and work in central Edinburgh! http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728 http://whc.unesco.org/en/list/728
  - Reason077 10y ago
    Edinburgh is a similar size to Zurich - a city regarded as one of the world's most important financial centres.
    - arethuza 10y ago
      What I meant is that I doubt Edinburgh could handle an influx of additional bankers on a large scale. I don't think there would be many places for them to go in the actual city itself.
    - dagw 10y ago
      Depends on how you count. If you include everything that is within a reasonable train/bus commute of the city center then Zurich has at least double the "population" of Edinburgh.
  - s_kilk 10y ago

lordnacho 10y ago

There's an ongoing offshoring of certain divisions anyway, something the article alludes to with the Polish IT staff. That kind of thing is Brexit independent. Michelin stars are not synonymous with having good restaurants. Something like a good steakhouse is not captured my Michelin, which is a very narrow definition of good food. There's also the requirement of variety, which London does extremely well: food from many different cultures, at different price points. It's also not that clear that Brexit will force finance away from London, which is well entrenched.

varjag 10y ago
> Something like a good steakhouse is not captured my Michelin, which is a very narrow definition of good food. Michelin rates all kinds of places, including sushi bars, Chinese takeaways and steakhouses.
- lordnacho 10y ago
  Yes, but most cities have only a handful of Michelin places. There's no reason to think a city with a few rated restaurants will have more numerous or varied restaurants.
jakozaur 10y ago
Yes this is global trend, that a lot of financial people will be moved out of global hubs (like New York, London) and be employed in smaller cities such as Jaksonville, Madrid or Warsaw: http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e1ece4fa-17ac-11e6-bb7d-ee563a5a1cc1.html#axzz4D9bGhGmM http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/e1ece4fa-17ac-11e6-bb7d-ee563a5a1c... Though Brexit hasn't caused this and staying in EU won't prevent it from happening (probably cheaper housing would help the most). However it may accelerate some of this trends.
simonh 10y ago
> It's also not that clear that Brexit will force finance away from London, which is well entrenched. Maybe not all, but a lot. Over the last few decades London has captured a lot of business that has to be conducted within the EU for regulatory and legal reasons. One example is clearing trades; London clearing houses have captured about 80% of clearing activity from exchanges all across Europe. there are many others. Another is the LSE/Berlin stock exchange merger which was going to see the German exchange hosted and operating from London. That deal will not now happen. Unless London keeps it's financial services 'passporting' arrangements, much business conducted in London will have to be conducted within the EU. London will not keep it's passporting rights though. The EU is built on four fundamental principles. The free exchange on good, services, capital and workers. These are inextricably linked. Since canceling the free movement of workers was the defining issue of the referendum, we will lose all four. Thus the referendum result in incompatible with membership of the European Economic Area or any similar agreement. Think about it this way. Is it fair for London to have the right to conduct business on behalf of EU businesses in London, but EU workers not to have a right to work in those London businesses? If London businesses can trade in the EU under EU rules, then EU companies should be able to set up business in London under EU rules but won't be able to because London won't be part of the EU. That's how the EU thinks about these things. They would see such an arrangement as a fundamental betrayal of their own citizen's rights. Finally, according to EU law no member country can negotiate trade agreements with the EU, or other EU countries, or countries outside the EU. That means by law, we cannot even start to negotiate any deals with anyone until _after_ we officially exit the EU, which will probably 2 years after invoking Article 50. These deals can take many years, it took Canada 7 years to negotiate the latest deal and that's still waiting on ratification by all member governments which is likely to take another couple of years. Our economy will be operating under bare minimum WTO rules with no special provisions with anyone anywhere for _years_. Our best option may be to exit the EU, then immediately apply for European Economic Area membership under default terms. Since we're already compliant with all the regulations, we should be able to fast track that, but it would still probably take 2 years or more during which we will be cut out of large swathes of the EU financial services industry. That business will have to be conducted somewhere, but it won't be in London. It would also mean totally betraying many key issues in the referendum though. So this all doesn't mean London will stop being a center for finance, but when we talk about a large, double digit percentage of business leaving London it's not because people want to take that business elsewhere, it's because they will be legally obliged to.

yAnonymous 10y ago

>Badly hurt by the financial crisis, the Dutch have capped bankers’ bonuses at just 20 percent of their annual salaries — a far more drastic curb than was imposed by the European Union. Several bankers told me that unless the Dutch repealed the cap, they wouldn’t consider moving to Amsterdam. “I’d love to relocate to Amsterdam,” one top executive told me. “But I don’t think we’re wanted there.” My deepest sympathy goes out to the poor bankers.

varjag 10y ago
If there is market incentive to move banking to Holland, it will happen. The bankers will move where the jobs go, they don't have much say in the matter.
- clort 10y ago
  what is market incentive? I'm not sure we can separate the incentive effects of the company making more money, or the bankers themselves making more money. The people at the top of these companies are bankers themselves, and they have bonuses too.
  - varjag 10y ago
    Profit differential in billions on investments would be a great market incentive. Good luck holding this off by forming a mid-level bank clerk conspiracy circle.
- yAnonymous 10y ago
  They are basically giving the bonuses to themselves, so if they can't do that, there goes the incentive to move to that country.
  - varjag 10y ago
    They then become unemployed as people whose money they manage move them to places with better ROI. Cruel world we live in!
  - 10y ago

SoleSoul 10y ago

New Londo

s_kilk 10y ago
Appropriate, given most of the UK will look like the New Londo Ruins soon enough.

randomname2 10y ago

Some banks are already backtracking on their promises of leaving London for Paris or Frankfurt [1] [2]. [1] http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/30/hsbc-rules-out-leaving-london-after-brexit-vote/ http://www.ft.com/fastft/2016/06/30/hsbc-rules-out-leaving-l... [2] http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-headquarters-london-flint-brexit-eu-referendum-passporting-a7111236.html http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/hsbc-headqua...

hyperbovine 10y ago
Backtracking all around!
tonyedgecombe 10y ago
I don't think you can read too much into these sorts of statements, whichever way they point. They have existing staff they need to keep happy for the moment.
simonh 10y ago
They are not backtracking, HSBC have never said they would move their HQ out of London. Since 2/3 of their business is in Asia it doesn't make as much difference if London is in the EU or not compared to many other banks. What HSBC have said is that they may move about 1,000 jobs to Paris. That's because those jobs are tied to services that by law must be provided within the EU legal and regulatory environment. When London leaves that environment those jobs will go, not just at HSBC but across our financial sector. See my other larger post on this page for further details.
- randomname2 10y ago
  It was reported in the media and by politicians as, "banks will move to Paris and to Frankfurt if Brexit happens", and articles like this only perpetuate that talking point.

bodyfour 10y ago

One thing this article doesn't mention is the political risk in each place. Amsterdam is ranked high, but many consider it The Netherlands the next "domino to fall" since the far-right anti-EU party is polling so well there. So if you move business there, you might be back to square one a year later.

Bromskloss 10y ago

Why does it have to be in the EU? Can it not remain in London (or in New York)?

lukasm 10y ago
It's all about risk. If the negotiation fall through and GB won't have access to the single market it makes sense to move the business. If you want to trade with a customer in France you may be legally required to have a business there or in EU.

restalis 10y ago

For your own health's sake, please consider the next place to have a nicer weather, like Malta or something!

yvdriess 10y ago

Wait, Brussels was not even on the list?

allendoerfer 10y ago

> Its population of 2.5 million could absorb a large influx of financial professionals. Frankfurt is just growing over 700k people.

lukasm 10y ago
From wiki Population (2014-12-31) • City 717,624 • Urban 2,221,910 • Metro 5,500,000 I wouldn't be surprised that there is 7mln that can commute to Frankfurt.
- allendoerfer 10y ago
  Frankfurt has some smaller outpost cities, which are extremely rich like Königsberg and Bad Homburg (this is why Frankfurt is not Munich-expensive and nowhere near London-expensive) and there are a few major cities from which you can easily commute like Darmstadt, Offenbach, Wiesbaden and Mainz plus people from villages all over Hesse work in Frankfurt. Still Frankfurt itself is a small village with an airport and a few towers. The city itself calls it "the biggest village in Hesse" [0]. [0]: http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=2942&_ffmpar[_id_inhalt]=8489384 http://www.frankfurt.de/sixcms/detail.php?id=2942&_ffmpar[_i...
eru 10y ago
Probably talking about the wider area.

johan_larson 10y ago

I'm always a bit surprised to see entries like "good restaurants and cultural offerings" on lists like these. Aren't the people these companies are trying to hire really really hardcore workaholics? How much time do they really spend going to the opera? Maybe I'm an outlier, but my own tastes in culture are amply satisfied by a decent bookstore and movie theatre, or in a pinch Amazon and Netflix, these days.

eru 10y ago
Even the workaholics might have some partners or family that need convincing to move to the place?
lsd5you 10y ago
For finance types, I would say it's largely about status - i.e. having something 'better' than other people. Even if they cannot fully appreciate these things.
chongli 10y ago
Good restaurants are critical for workaholics. These people don't have time to cook! As for cultural offerings? People at the top of finance make a LOT of money. They aren't just stuffing it under the mattress.

macygray 10y ago

Frankfurt got 54 points and it's said, that it lacks culture in opposite to Berlin. But Berlin is not even in the list, why?

xedarius 10y ago

The article doesn't seem to consider that London may become more attractive to the financial sector. You know what banks hate? Regulation, you know what the EU has loads of .... that's right regulation. The UK will be able to offer a environment where financial services can thrive. Seems to have worked out for Singapore, and London already has quite the head start. Interesting times.

monk_e_boy 10y ago
These articles are mostly FUD and partly from the bankers as a not so gentle prod to the UK government (Don't forget us, the banks) to deregulate a bit. We'll most likely get a Troy government next so deregulation is almost certain. I think London will be ok.