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> In the future, we'll become more strongly aware of the > limitations semantics places on articulation. People tend > to get too hung up on what word

> In the future, we'll become more strongly aware of the > limitations semantics places on articulation. People tend > to get too hung up on what words mean, and discussions > will often digress to the moors of semantic posturing. I'm curious why you think this will be so in the future? Mo matter how much we learn about cognition, the basic process of how people think hasn't changed as far back as we've paid attention. Awareness of the process of thought isn't something that most people ever give attention to beyond idle internal philosophical debates. Related to this: Anyone else ever focus on their language-based thoughts while thinking them and notice how every mentally verbalized thought seems to have almost a pre-echo of that thought that seems like words but isn't? Alternatively, my brain is playing a trick on me and I'm filling this sense of echo in after the fact of the language-thought. I've never been able to be discern the sequence with absolute certainty, so figured it was worth putting out there to see if I'm alone in it.

westoncb 10y ago
> Anyone else ever focus on their language-based thoughts while thinking them and notice how every mentally verbalized thought seems to have almost a pre-echo of that thought that seems like words but isn't? Yes. I noticed this when I was first getting into programming and concluded that the verbal part wasn't strictly necessary and should be avoided when possible. Seems to be an issue similar to verbalizing while reading or not (i.e. 'subvocalization'. I always did verbalize initially, but now I can fairly often get into a mode where it feels like the book is reading itself and I understand the words, but there is no enunciation). I have two main, perhaps conflicting hypotheses on language and thinking now: 1) It's used to solidify trains of thought, similarly to writing down ideas—makes them more stable and easier to return to. Sometimes it's useful to echo your thoughts verbally in order to get this solidification, but it's not necessary. 2) Everything that appears in consciousness is a representation of something deeper going on in the brain. Certain subconscious processes are represented as what we call language in the brain, but the language itself isn't 'active' in any sense. edit: fixed phrasing.
toolslive 10y ago
Semantics is a difficult problem. Wittgenstein once stated "Semantic atoms exist, and I will find them". 20 years later he had to admit defeat and said "Tell me, what's the essence of a chair?". Not long after that, he abandoned rationality completely.
pizza 10y ago
> Anyone else ever focus on their language-based thoughts while thinking them and notice how every mentally verbalized thought seems to have almost a pre-echo of that thought that seems like words but isn't? Feels like goal-directed behavior, where the function to maximize is "how best can I internally broadcast this exceptionally salient combination of memories and emotions?"

westoncb 10y ago

> Anyone else ever focus on their language-based thoughts while thinking them and notice how every mentally verbalized thought seems to have almost a pre-echo of that thought that seems like words but isn't? Yes. I noticed this when I was first getting into programming and concluded that the verbal part wasn't strictly necessary and should be avoided when possible. Seems to be an issue similar to verbalizing while reading or not (i.e. 'subvocalization'. I always did verbalize initially, but now I can fairly often get into a mode where it feels like the book is reading itself and I understand the words, but there is no enunciation). I have two main, perhaps conflicting hypotheses on language and thinking now: 1) It's used to solidify trains of thought, similarly to writing down ideas—makes them more stable and easier to return to. Sometimes it's useful to echo your thoughts verbally in order to get this solidification, but it's not necessary. 2) Everything that appears in consciousness is a representation of something deeper going on in the brain. Certain subconscious processes are represented as what we call language in the brain, but the language itself isn't 'active' in any sense. edit: fixed phrasing.

toolslive 10y ago

Semantics is a difficult problem. Wittgenstein once stated "Semantic atoms exist, and I will find them". 20 years later he had to admit defeat and said "Tell me, what's the essence of a chair?". Not long after that, he abandoned rationality completely.

pizza 10y ago

> Anyone else ever focus on their language-based thoughts while thinking them and notice how every mentally verbalized thought seems to have almost a pre-echo of that thought that seems like words but isn't? Feels like goal-directed behavior, where the function to maximize is "how best can I internally broadcast this exceptionally salient combination of memories and emotions?"