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Ethereum Protocol Developer Holds $115k Worth of DAO Tokens
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ryanlol 10y agoNot surprising in the slightest. This whole debate wouldn't even be happening if not for all the core Ethereum people heavily invested in the DAO.
- nomel 10y agoWhy wouldn't a founder invest in something they created and believed in? This is how any founder makes money, they put time/money into their creation, hoping it will pay off. I must be missing something?
- MichaelBurge 10y agoThey've proposed a hard or soft fork of the software. Them owning these tokens may bias them to serve their own interests above those of the Ethereum project as a whole. Even if they remain completely unbiased, there is at least the appearance of conflict of interest which may harm the project. I don't see any problem as long as this was disclosed ahead of time.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- tzs 10y agoI'm a little unclear on this whole thing, but I believe that Ethereum and The DAO are distinct things. Ethereum is a virtual currency, and The DAO is something built on top of that virtual currency. So the situation here is not so much like founder investing in his own creation, but rather like a founder investing in a user of his creation. Then the user screws up, and some want the founder to make a change in his creation to help that user...but that change might hurt other users who did not screw up.
- argonaut 10y agoFirst, realize that this logic applies to any conflict of interest. For example: of course the judge would rule in favor of the company he's invested in. He wouldn't invest in a company if he didn't think it was a company with good, reasonable management!
- kalleboo 10y agoHe's invested in a specific contract someone else created on the network. Not specifically invested in the currency itself. The ethereum website starts off with this line: > Ethereum is a decentralized platform that runs smart contracts: applications that run exactly as programmed without any possibility of downtime, censorship, fraud or third party interference The developers of Ethereum now want to censor transactions from a certain address and interfere with a certain contract because it ran exactly as programmed (including bugs). That is why it's a controversial fork. If the only reason they're going against the stated principles of the network because the developers are heavily invested themselves... it makes it more controversial. If they're not invested in the next big contract to fail, will that one get bailed out as well?
- soconfused1 10y agoThats a failure of an analogy. It would be a better analogy if it was a developer of TCP/IP and something bad happened to their website so to fix it they fucked with TCPIP to fix an application level issue.
- ggggtez 10y agoWhy haven't people realized the bitcoin-esque products are all Ponzi schemes that developers hope to cash in on? If the product has even mild success, the developer has created wealth for themselves.
- curiousgal 10y agoFollowing the same logic; Zuckerberg controls most of Facebook's shares, it must be a huge Ponzi scheme.
- chillwaves 10y agoFacebook is providing value outside of a small sphere of followers. Bitcoin is a feedback loop.
- ryanlol 10y agoBitcoin certainly provides a plenty of value to many people, I can't remember the last time I wasn't paid in bitcoin. And it's not because I don't accept other forms of payment, but because other forms of payment really suck when you need to instantly send larger amounts of money to someone.
- ryanlol 10y agoThis seems oddly controversial, I guess the downvoters didn't see the original comment.
- curiousgal 10y agoI live in a country with backwards financial laws; no PayPal and ridiculous credit card regulations. Bitcoin has been the only way I could purchase stuff/ pay for books/servers online. No one can take away the fact that it has changed my life more than Facebook ever could. Certainly I am one data point but to discard the entire technology just because one doesn't see the value in it seems self-centric and hasty.
- darawk 10y agoIMO there's nothing wrong with him owning the tokens. But he, and every other core developer, should have explicitly disclosed this before any discussion of a soft/hard fork. He can't be the only one core developer who does. And to be honest, I would want the other core developers to have invested in something like the DAO. But we need to know who has what stake in these decisions and be able to evaluate how that may influence their opinion.
- curiousgal 10y agoThat's the cool part about consesus, if the majority of miners disagree with the fork, even the founder himself can't do anything about it.
- aakilfernandes 10y agoThats actually not how hard forks work. If the nodes run by the exchanges, the "economic majority", decide to fork, pretty much everyone else has to follow. Miners don't really have a say.
- jaekwon 10y agoIn PoW, ultimately the miners have the say. It's just that they're incentivized to do what the "economic majority" has to say, otherwise the economic majority can choose to hard-fork the mining algo (requiring a change in hardware investment), or, can switch to PoS, say. http://tendermint.com/blog/on-thedao-and-blockchain-governance/ http://tendermint.com/blog/on-thedao-and-blockchain-governan...
- aakilfernandes 10y agoThat would be a soft fork. For hard forks, the miners have very little input. http://aakilfernandes.github.io/soft-forks-vs-hard-forks http://aakilfernandes.github.io/soft-forks-vs-hard-forks
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- seibelj 10y agoEthereum is such a mess! I have a close friend that invested $12k in ether, then the value increased to $40k, then he invested a ton into the DAO, which tanked, then he doubled down and purchased even more DAO at a discount on the assumption of a fork that would reimburse DAO tokens to parity and he would make a killing. He's sweating bullets over all of this. Last night he was going nuts over the soft fork crisis. I don't know how he does it, $12k is a lot for him
- curiousgal 10y agoInvesting 101: never invest more than you can afford to lose. I shorted ether after this whole debacle started but the fact it's still trading above $10 is mind-boggling. I believe in the technology and that this will benefit it in the long-term but for now, it's either in one huge bubble or someone is fixing things up.
- jfoutz 10y agoEven more important, Never speculate with more than you can afford to lose.
- fleitz 10y agoAll investing is speculation.
- jfoutz 10y agoill agree nothing is zero risk. But there is way safer stuff than DAO
- fleitz 10y agoFully agree, I worked with the real jr mining industry, it's the exact same kind of bullshit. Why not just call it BreX coin and drop the pretense?
- soconfused1 10y ago
- syngrog66 10y agoThere was another... "interesting" ... sequence of events which happened in the Ethereum/Dao community, leading up to the big heist. But I did not feel it was appropriate to point it out anywhere. Hoping if enough others saw it, that somebody else would look into it and talk about it.
- RhodesianHunter 10y ago"interesting"? big heist? You must share.
- syngrog66 10y agowell, everything I saw was right out there in the public record. so, again, I'm more comfortable letting others reach their own conclusions, connecting the dots, taking action. I think whenever we deal with anonymity-enabling cryptocurrency systems, and distributed actors, the web, you need to find your own balance between not being too gullible at one extreme, versus, not being too paranoid or prone to mob justice or witch hunts on the other. if I were 100% certain I know what happened, I'd say it. but I'm not 100% certain, therefore I won't. similar to my thoughts on Mt Gox a few years ago. we may never know the exact truth of what happened. but if you see certain definite facts, on the surface, a certain pattern, you can reach your own conclusions about what was hidden below the surface, and make future bets accordingly.
- 6nf 10y agoYou can't just tease us like this, if you won't say it then don't make a comment about it! It's like when kids run around saying 'I know a secret!' Either say it or keep it to yourself.
- syngrog66 10y agodisagree. but you disagreeing does not mean I should be downvoted below one, ha! ;-) I do think there's value in making statements which help to stimulate thought in the reader and discussion. hopefully I succeeded at that. I said exactly as much as I'm comfortable with saying.
- nowprovision 10y agoThe Ethereum situation is very sad, a great idea flawed by centralization of power (or influence if you want to be pedantic in terms), and whilst you could argue technically all the miners control the network and anyone can participate if you look at recent events it is currently clearly dictated by Vitalik Buterin, slock.it and a few other heavily invested and conflicted* individuals. When the DAO hack hit the fan Vitalik Buterin immediately instructed the exchanges to stop (and they did) and then started talking and planning for the hard forking within hours, this was not only a PR disaster (as it turns out it wasn't needed) but gave a clear signal to any spectators about where the power was centralized. He later tried to justify the decentralized nature by saying "see I had to beg the exchanges" https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/743972769717641216 https://twitter.com/VitalikButerin/status/743972769717641216 but history shows a far different sequence of events than beg and hope they listen. Smart contracts have a bright future, just not the ethereum implementation/network/fiasco. *e.g. http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR#L45 http://pastebin.com/aMKwQcHR#L45 The ethereum foundation can reimburse exchange losses. Without a hard fork and rollback this damage will be permanent and the ecosystem will die.
- Animats 10y agoThis person is Vitalik Buterin, right? I get the impression that Etherium is really Vitalik Buterin, and the other names are window dressing. Is that correct?
- bhaak 10y agoVitalik has said[1] that he has put 1500 ETH into TheDAO (0.3% of his ETH holdings). So if you believe this than it's not him. But yes, Vitalik gets the "many ETH-believers want him to be their ersatz satoshi" treatment. But IMO, he's ignoring those attempts and not encouraging it at all. [1] https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4pgf03/fork_call_for_ethereum_governance_rules/d4kovuo https://www.reddit.com/r/ethereum/comments/4pgf03/fork_call_...
- heliumcraft 10y ago> This person is Vitalik Buterin, right? That address is Gavin Wood, who is not even part of the foundation. > I get the impression that Etherium is really Vitalik Buterin, and the other names are window dressing. Is that correct? No. There are a lot of other people involved in the branch, but Vitalik is the most known by far outside the community.
- jbmorgado 10y agoWelcome to the new financial overlords much better than the old financial overlords. The gods of "libertarianism" must be laughing right now.
- aminok 10y agoAt least no one threatens to throw me in prison if I don't pay taxes to support Ethereum. But it's totally cool and even funny that we throw people in prison, where they are kept in small enclosures, and where they often develop mental and suffer physical and sexual abuse, for not meeting our intrusive demands. Lol. Yeah it's the libertarians that are dogmatic psychopaths, not us.
- jbmorgado 10y agoYou can always go and live in the jungle. Seriously, if you don't want to contribute to society then why don't you just leave? Nobody will force you to pay taxes from then on. Or may it be that you just want to rip all the benefits of living in a society but then want to be cool and "libertarian" and choose not to contribute to it?
- aminok 10y agoHey people who live under Sharia Law can go live in the desert so they have nothing to complain about. We have a right to throw people in prison if they don't contribute money to our big projects. Yea it's those libertarians who are the psychopathic loons, not us. >Or may it be that you just want to rip all the benefits of living in a society but then want to be cool and "libertarian" and choose not to contribute to it? Why does one have to contribute to society to be permitted to live in a country and interact with other members of it? Why do we have to throw those who do not contribute in prison? Look what you're endorsing. You're like the High Sparrow.
- jbmorgado 10y agoBecause you rip the benefits of being surrounded by people that had an education paid by the state, that were allowed to live because they had healthcare paid by the state, because they had mobility paid by the state, and a big number if things paid by the state. Not only that but you most probably benefited from all those things paid by the state as well. You are contributing to being surrounded by members of society that are uplifted by that same society and that favors all. And again, if you don't like that, go and live away from civilization and don't pay your taxes, but stop complaining that you don't want to pay and then rip all the benefits the same.
- eththrowa 10y agoIt is a private individual at a private company - and his investment was already public knowledge: https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDao/comments/4j6nv7/you_have_been_warned_gavin_wood_re_the_dao/d34jhp1 https://www.reddit.com/r/TheDao/comments/4j6nv7/you_have_bee... OP is just concern trolling.