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I see your point about progress but I'm not sure I agree that everything has progressed. At the very least it seems as though it has taken us 70 years to revive

I see your point about progress but I'm not sure I agree that everything has progressed. At the very least it seems as though it has taken us 70 years to revive the booms in social rights and lifestyle that happened in 10 years through the 1920s. I guess I just find it hard to look at kids growing up in LA among regular gang violence, or murders and regular serious violence happening in schools and say that this is progress. Some comparison points: Marriage rates have fallen massively. Divorce rates have risen massively. % Illiteracy (1930: 4.3% / 1%) (1930 had significant gains since prior decade) However, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Literacy_in_the_United_States raises serious questions about current literacy rates, suggesting illteracy may be 25% or higher, the point being claiming we are more educated on average is questionable. Prisoners / 100k (1929: 98.8 | 2008: 754) Crime Rates: Statistics vary but seem comparable. This was quite a surprise as crime rates today are around double that of 1960 (much higher for particular forms of crime). Mean income (only counts those who filed, inflation adjusted to 2007) (1923: $74,102.15 | 2007: $62,369) Life Expectancy: Much higher now, but general sources suggest this is due to medicine, not better living (factors such as lack of exercise and poor nutrition are considerably higher now).

matwood 17y ago
I think what your stats and the comment you replied to is showing is that America has gotten better, but there is a growing class divide between the haves and the have nots. I'm not talking about the super rich or the wall street guys, but by and large the knowledge/new economy/professional workers and then everyone else. I believe most(all?) people on HN would by default be in the haves. They are educated and understand what it takes today to be successful. They may be broke, but rarely poor. Then there is a large group of people who are not only uneducated in these matters, but they are also poor and have no means or understanding on how to change their situation. The problem is that the gap between the two groups is growing larger and larger. How we get those on the have not side to make the jump is a growing challenge.
anamax 17y ago
> Crime Rates: Statistics vary but seem comparable. This was quite a surprise as crime rates today are around double that of 1960 (much higher for particular forms of crime). Yes, but 1960 was right before a huge explosion in US crime. US crime rates now are significantly lower than they've been for some time. The fact that they're still higher than they were in 1960 shows the magnitude of that explosion.

matwood 17y ago

I think what your stats and the comment you replied to is showing is that America has gotten better, but there is a growing class divide between the haves and the have nots. I'm not talking about the super rich or the wall street guys, but by and large the knowledge/new economy/professional workers and then everyone else. I believe most(all?) people on HN would by default be in the haves. They are educated and understand what it takes today to be successful. They may be broke, but rarely poor. Then there is a large group of people who are not only uneducated in these matters, but they are also poor and have no means or understanding on how to change their situation. The problem is that the gap between the two groups is growing larger and larger. How we get those on the have not side to make the jump is a growing challenge.

anamax 17y ago

> Crime Rates: Statistics vary but seem comparable. This was quite a surprise as crime rates today are around double that of 1960 (much higher for particular forms of crime). Yes, but 1960 was right before a huge explosion in US crime. US crime rates now are significantly lower than they've been for some time. The fact that they're still higher than they were in 1960 shows the magnitude of that explosion.