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> A $30 billion valuation would make Airbnb the second-highest-valued start-up in the United States behind Uber, which is now valued at $62.5 billion, according

> A $30 billion valuation would make Airbnb the second-highest-valued start-up in the United States behind Uber, which is now valued at $62.5 billion, according to a list compiled by CB Insights. Is there an age limit to being called a startup? Is there a valuation limit? Revenue limit? I guess the line used to be when a company went public, but that's not really cool anymore. Maybe the new definition of a unicorn should be a private company that is profitable and requires no outside funding?

sytse 10y ago
As long as you're growing fast you are a startup http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html Size is irrelevant, you can be a small restaurant and not be a startup if you're not growing fast anymore.
- untog 10y ago
  So when Apple launched the iPhone they were a startup?
  - adventured 10y ago
    The premise obviously doesn't make sense. Start-up means getting started, starting up something, early into the formation, a young entity, etc. To claim a massive 40 year old business - with many old products - can be a start-up, would be to intentionally obfuscate the historical use of the term. There's no good reason to declare that Apple was a start-up when it was growing fast, it makes no sense. What would be the purpose of contorting the language for that? It's a: "fast growing company," that's all the description that's necessary for any older business that grows quickly.
    - untog 10y ago
      Well that's my point. That the term "startup" is already hopelessly corrupted, and by the OPs standard Apple would count. It makes no sense, and is largely the way it is for PR reasons.
  - sytse 10y ago
    I'm not sure what their growth rate was at the time. There is no set number, but if you're tripling in people every year it tends to feel like a startup.
orky56 10y ago
Private company is objective but requiring no outside funding is a function of not only the current financial situation of the firm but also its intended growth trajectory and associated costs. As long as companies like Uber and Airbnb believe that it makes more sense to use funding to capture opportunities not possible through organic self-funded growth, we have no choice but to use terms like unicorn and startup.
kartD 10y ago
> Is there an age limit to being called a startup? Is there a valuation limit? Revenue limit? This has become a problem lately with companies remaining private longer. You could consider it a start-up because it still aims to grow unprofitably by relying on private capital > Maybe the new definition of a unicorn should be a private company that is profitable and requires no outside funding? You could call it a grown up unicorn
WestCoastJustin 10y ago
Here's that CB Insights list for anyone interested. https://www.cbinsights.com/research-unicorn-companies https://www.cbinsights.com/research-unicorn-companies
bogomipz 10y ago
I completely agree. Having multiple office locations, billions of dollars in funding and lobbyists doesn't really fit with the perception of 'startup." But it makes for more sensational copy.
argonaut 10y ago
Being profitable and requiring no outside funding is probably somewhat negatively-correlated with being a startup (because growth is often - though obviously not always - slower). I've always just used "startup" to mean a private company that hasn't exited yet. You just have to qualify this futher. So Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, Pinterest, etc. are all categorized as "large pre-IPO startups."
lafay 10y ago
In my mind, "startup" implies that there is still risk that the company will cease to be a going concern in the near to medium term. The transition from "startup" to "former startup" is more of a process than an event. The magnitude of exit for companies like Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, etc. may still be in question, but the chance that any of them will fail, go bankrupt, firesale, etc. seems very remote at this point.

sytse 10y ago

As long as you're growing fast you are a startup http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html http://www.paulgraham.com/growth.html Size is irrelevant, you can be a small restaurant and not be a startup if you're not growing fast anymore.

untog 10y ago
So when Apple launched the iPhone they were a startup?
- adventured 10y ago
  The premise obviously doesn't make sense. Start-up means getting started, starting up something, early into the formation, a young entity, etc. To claim a massive 40 year old business - with many old products - can be a start-up, would be to intentionally obfuscate the historical use of the term. There's no good reason to declare that Apple was a start-up when it was growing fast, it makes no sense. What would be the purpose of contorting the language for that? It's a: "fast growing company," that's all the description that's necessary for any older business that grows quickly.
  - untog 10y ago
    Well that's my point. That the term "startup" is already hopelessly corrupted, and by the OPs standard Apple would count. It makes no sense, and is largely the way it is for PR reasons.
- sytse 10y ago
  I'm not sure what their growth rate was at the time. There is no set number, but if you're tripling in people every year it tends to feel like a startup.

orky56 10y ago

Private company is objective but requiring no outside funding is a function of not only the current financial situation of the firm but also its intended growth trajectory and associated costs. As long as companies like Uber and Airbnb believe that it makes more sense to use funding to capture opportunities not possible through organic self-funded growth, we have no choice but to use terms like unicorn and startup.

kartD 10y ago

> Is there an age limit to being called a startup? Is there a valuation limit? Revenue limit? This has become a problem lately with companies remaining private longer. You could consider it a start-up because it still aims to grow unprofitably by relying on private capital > Maybe the new definition of a unicorn should be a private company that is profitable and requires no outside funding? You could call it a grown up unicorn

WestCoastJustin 10y ago

Here's that CB Insights list for anyone interested. https://www.cbinsights.com/research-unicorn-companies https://www.cbinsights.com/research-unicorn-companies

bogomipz 10y ago

I completely agree. Having multiple office locations, billions of dollars in funding and lobbyists doesn't really fit with the perception of 'startup." But it makes for more sensational copy.

argonaut 10y ago

Being profitable and requiring no outside funding is probably somewhat negatively-correlated with being a startup (because growth is often - though obviously not always - slower). I've always just used "startup" to mean a private company that hasn't exited yet. You just have to qualify this futher. So Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, Pinterest, etc. are all categorized as "large pre-IPO startups."

lafay 10y ago

In my mind, "startup" implies that there is still risk that the company will cease to be a going concern in the near to medium term. The transition from "startup" to "former startup" is more of a process than an event. The magnitude of exit for companies like Uber, Airbnb, Dropbox, etc. may still be in question, but the chance that any of them will fail, go bankrupt, firesale, etc. seems very remote at this point.