4 ms·

The choice between Pi vs. Tau is completely arbitrary and should be based on minimizing the friction of use. Everyone knows Pi, few knows about Tau. I see no po

by thecopy 10y ago

The choice between Pi vs. Tau is completely arbitrary and should be based on minimizing the friction of use. Everyone knows Pi, few knows about Tau. I see no point in spending any more energy than that on this kind of nonsense decisions.

adwf 10y ago
To use your own argument, 2*pi is far, far more common to encounter in physics/maths ie. real world examples, therefore minimizing friction would be using Tau ;)
- jeffwass 10y ago
  So to save confusion over a mere factor of two, you're proposing devoting an entire new Greek letter to just double a constant, and requiring students to understand pi anyway to make sense of hundreds of years of mathematical and scientific corpus? It's just like that xkcd comic about introducing a new standard and now having N+1 standards. Except in this case the new standard offers only a factor of two.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - adwf 10y ago
    Relax, the whole thing is a joke, including my comment above.
    - jeffwass 10y ago
      Ha, yeah I know. On rereading my comment, it does come across as somewhat defensive but I definitely wasn't meaning it to be that way. Actually I was smiling as I wrote it. See my other comments on this thread about sigma, for instance.
  - FeepingCreature 10y ago
    It's not about the factor, it's about making the connection to the circle obvious.
  - e12e 10y ago
    Look, it's more about saying that the area of a right triangle is naturally represented (and explained) as half that of a rectangle sharing the height and width - but being divided in two equal halves by the hypotenuse. You can argue that you're so used to right triangles that it's the square and the rectangle that should be considered special, and "twice the area" - but I don't think that makes much sense. Pi is a useful constant, but it's chief role is in cycles/frequencies and circles. Not half-circles. It is perfectly ok to disagree - but I'm one of those people to find the concepts behind pi start making much more sense when thinking of tau as the constant, and half-tau (pi) as the special case. Maybe it's because I always hate having logic and math concepts waved away as "that's the way it is" when there obviously is some pattern or explanation that's being hidden or lost. I'm no good at rote calculation, and with tau a lot of things that just look odd and "special" unify quite nicely. It may very well be that for higher dimensions than two (or three) tau doesn't make much more sense than pi - but I found the "tau manifesto" examples plenty convincing. It was easier for me to grasp, and I believe it would be a lot easier to teach.
aaron695 10y ago
Like how we should stick with GMT?
csydas_work 10y ago
While I appreciate the actual methematical point of the site (and assume there is a small sense of deadpan humor intended), discussions as to which day should be "celebrated" are pointless since the day's importance to the general public has nothing to do with the value of pi or tau, but instead the fact that pi is a homonym of pie and march 14th happens to be the same numerically as the first few digits. As far as I know, that's the extent of the popularity - you can make pies on Pi Day. Again, I'm assuming the Tau day thing is a bit of deadpan, but otherwise it seems to me to be that simple.
greydius 10y ago
"Because that's the way we've always done is" is never a valid argument.
- kintamanimatt 10y ago
  I"m not entirely sure that's the argument being made.
  - bbcbasic 10y ago
    Straw man city on hn
- dri_ft 10y ago
  Often it is. It's a perfectly good answer to, for example, "why do we drive on the side of the road that we do?"
  - robert_tweed 10y ago
    I sometimes wonder if handedness or eye dominance have any effect on accident statistics.
  - jobigoud 10y ago
    If the choice really is arbitrary then yes. If there was a compelling argument to driving one side or the other then it would cease to be a good answer IMHO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H
    - sevenless 10y ago
      Given that most people are right handed and right eye dominant it's surprising there isn't a widely accepted 'right answer' for the best side of the road to drive on.
      - kazinator 10y ago
        Maybe it's because driving involves both eyes and both hands.
denzil_correa 10y ago
> Tau is completely arbitrary and should be based on minimizing the friction of use. Isn't that what the proponents of Tau also argue for?

by thecopy 10y ago

adwf 10y ago

To use your own argument, 2*pi is far, far more common to encounter in physics/maths ie. real world examples, therefore minimizing friction would be using Tau ;)

jeffwass 10y ago
So to save confusion over a mere factor of two, you're proposing devoting an entire new Greek letter to just double a constant, and requiring students to understand pi anyway to make sense of hundreds of years of mathematical and scientific corpus? It's just like that xkcd comic about introducing a new standard and now having N+1 standards. Except in this case the new standard offers only a factor of two.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- adwf 10y ago
  Relax, the whole thing is a joke, including my comment above.
  - jeffwass 10y ago
    Ha, yeah I know. On rereading my comment, it does come across as somewhat defensive but I definitely wasn't meaning it to be that way. Actually I was smiling as I wrote it. See my other comments on this thread about sigma, for instance.
- FeepingCreature 10y ago
  It's not about the factor, it's about making the connection to the circle obvious.
- e12e 10y ago
  Look, it's more about saying that the area of a right triangle is naturally represented (and explained) as half that of a rectangle sharing the height and width - but being divided in two equal halves by the hypotenuse. You can argue that you're so used to right triangles that it's the square and the rectangle that should be considered special, and "twice the area" - but I don't think that makes much sense. Pi is a useful constant, but it's chief role is in cycles/frequencies and circles. Not half-circles. It is perfectly ok to disagree - but I'm one of those people to find the concepts behind pi start making much more sense when thinking of tau as the constant, and half-tau (pi) as the special case. Maybe it's because I always hate having logic and math concepts waved away as "that's the way it is" when there obviously is some pattern or explanation that's being hidden or lost. I'm no good at rote calculation, and with tau a lot of things that just look odd and "special" unify quite nicely. It may very well be that for higher dimensions than two (or three) tau doesn't make much more sense than pi - but I found the "tau manifesto" examples plenty convincing. It was easier for me to grasp, and I believe it would be a lot easier to teach.

aaron695 10y ago

Like how we should stick with GMT?

csydas_work 10y ago

While I appreciate the actual methematical point of the site (and assume there is a small sense of deadpan humor intended), discussions as to which day should be "celebrated" are pointless since the day's importance to the general public has nothing to do with the value of pi or tau, but instead the fact that pi is a homonym of pie and march 14th happens to be the same numerically as the first few digits. As far as I know, that's the extent of the popularity - you can make pies on Pi Day. Again, I'm assuming the Tau day thing is a bit of deadpan, but otherwise it seems to me to be that simple.

greydius 10y ago

"Because that's the way we've always done is" is never a valid argument.

kintamanimatt 10y ago
I"m not entirely sure that's the argument being made.
- bbcbasic 10y ago
  Straw man city on hn
dri_ft 10y ago
Often it is. It's a perfectly good answer to, for example, "why do we drive on the side of the road that we do?"
- robert_tweed 10y ago
  I sometimes wonder if handedness or eye dominance have any effect on accident statistics.
- jobigoud 10y ago
  If the choice really is arbitrary then yes. If there was a compelling argument to driving one side or the other then it would cease to be a good answer IMHO. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dagen_H
  - sevenless 10y ago
    Given that most people are right handed and right eye dominant it's surprising there isn't a widely accepted 'right answer' for the best side of the road to drive on.
    - kazinator 10y ago
      Maybe it's because driving involves both eyes and both hands.

denzil_correa 10y ago

> Tau is completely arbitrary and should be based on minimizing the friction of use. Isn't that what the proponents of Tau also argue for?