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I've done some form of boxing, grappling /judo or martial art for 30 years. I taught physical skills- use of force, to law enforcement for 6 years. For 5 years

I've done some form of boxing, grappling /judo or martial art for 30 years. I taught physical skills- use of force, to law enforcement for 6 years. For 5 years I worked in a violent custodial environment. Some young people entering that work-place had never faced an angry man, never been in a real fight. For them that "martial arts" environment is a reasonably safe and accessible place to start. I agree that it is no substitute for actual combat/use of force training but I wished some of them had at least gone to the local Y or a regular basis. The 6 month "entry to service" training was not sufficient, nor was 3 days a year skill updates. Perhaps the biggest issue with "martial arts" is the misunderstanding some people arrive at they can start a fight and win, and not get hurt. That their theoretical skills will enable them to prevail without pain. That is dangerous and un-helpful.

hoodoof 10y ago
Boxing, judo, grappling and wrestling all are more practical than karate. The core issue with karate is that it is loaded with formal or ritualistic representations of fighting. Karate kicks, punches and blocks are all hopelessly unusable when fighting a boxer for example, who is trained to defend their head and hit their opponents head hard and fast. By contrast, few, if any, karate stances are explicitly defending the head from being hit. The more extreme examples include holding the fist at the hip - a truly useless place for a fist to be during a fight.
- ComodoHacker 10y ago
  If only the boxer can get at the distance of his hands without having something broken or crippled. Primary head defense in most karate stances is distance.
  - pmoriarty 10y ago
    You should watch Royce Gracie in early MMA competitions (before grappling became regularly studied by most competitors). He completely dominated everyone, no matter what discipline. Distance did not help. At best, a punch or kick or two were thrown, and then the grappler was able to close the distance, and then anyone who didn't study grappling (or at least wrestling) was at a massive disadvantage, and the fight quickly ended in the grappler's favor.
germinalphrase 10y ago
What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?
- hoodoof 10y ago
  Boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Judo.
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    Systema?
  - qrendel 10y ago
    This. BJJ is probably the most useful for self-defense (personal opinion), but it's also the most complicated to learn. It covers ground fighting better than wrestling or judo, which is where many situations will eventually end up. If I had to pick one, excluding MMA (which is basically a combination of everything listed), I would make it this. Wrestling and judo for takedowns and takedown defense. Judo is more complicated and difficult to learn than wrestling (imo), but, depending on your age and physique, wrestling may be of limited use to you (a 50+ year old will likely have trouble applying many of the wrestling takedowns). A lot of what you'd need from these two would be covered in a BJJ school anyway, just with less time and focus spent on those areas. Boxing and kickboxing to learn how to defend yourself from strikes. Again, depending on age and phyisque they may otherwise be of limited use, since an older or smaller person is unlikely to be punching with knockout power, and would run a higher risk of breaking bones in their hands when striking. An MMA school would tend to cover all of that, but they may be more focused on competition than self-defense, which will affect what they teach you and how you train. Same problem with BJJ schools - a lot are more concerned with tournaments than self-defense, which can change the focus of your practice considerably.
- kstenerud 10y ago
  Boxing for as long as you can remain standing, wrestling after that. Basically, if you're not actually fighting, you don't know how to fight. It would be like learning how to program, except you've never actually written a program before.

hoodoof 10y ago

Boxing, judo, grappling and wrestling all are more practical than karate. The core issue with karate is that it is loaded with formal or ritualistic representations of fighting. Karate kicks, punches and blocks are all hopelessly unusable when fighting a boxer for example, who is trained to defend their head and hit their opponents head hard and fast. By contrast, few, if any, karate stances are explicitly defending the head from being hit. The more extreme examples include holding the fist at the hip - a truly useless place for a fist to be during a fight.

ComodoHacker 10y ago
If only the boxer can get at the distance of his hands without having something broken or crippled. Primary head defense in most karate stances is distance.
- pmoriarty 10y ago
  You should watch Royce Gracie in early MMA competitions (before grappling became regularly studied by most competitors). He completely dominated everyone, no matter what discipline. Distance did not help. At best, a punch or kick or two were thrown, and then the grappler was able to close the distance, and then anyone who didn't study grappling (or at least wrestling) was at a massive disadvantage, and the fight quickly ended in the grappler's favor.

germinalphrase 10y ago

What you would recommend as a more practical form of self defense training for those not working in a high-risk environment?

hoodoof 10y ago
Boxing, kickboxing, wrestling, Krav Maga, Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, MMA, Judo.
- Apocryphon 10y ago
  Systema?
- qrendel 10y ago
  This. BJJ is probably the most useful for self-defense (personal opinion), but it's also the most complicated to learn. It covers ground fighting better than wrestling or judo, which is where many situations will eventually end up. If I had to pick one, excluding MMA (which is basically a combination of everything listed), I would make it this. Wrestling and judo for takedowns and takedown defense. Judo is more complicated and difficult to learn than wrestling (imo), but, depending on your age and physique, wrestling may be of limited use to you (a 50+ year old will likely have trouble applying many of the wrestling takedowns). A lot of what you'd need from these two would be covered in a BJJ school anyway, just with less time and focus spent on those areas. Boxing and kickboxing to learn how to defend yourself from strikes. Again, depending on age and phyisque they may otherwise be of limited use, since an older or smaller person is unlikely to be punching with knockout power, and would run a higher risk of breaking bones in their hands when striking. An MMA school would tend to cover all of that, but they may be more focused on competition than self-defense, which will affect what they teach you and how you train. Same problem with BJJ schools - a lot are more concerned with tournaments than self-defense, which can change the focus of your practice considerably.
kstenerud 10y ago
Boxing for as long as you can remain standing, wrestling after that. Basically, if you're not actually fighting, you don't know how to fight. It would be like learning how to program, except you've never actually written a program before.