7 ms·

> At a Whole Foods... I'm curious why did you compare to Whole Foods? They are far more expensive than a regular grocery store and their food is not better.

jimmywanger 10y ago
My main point is that most western groceries have an expectation of having any produce in any season, eg apples during the summer and peaches during the winter. Whole Food is just an example of a national food chain most people are familiar with. For example, outside of the west coast, nobody knows what an Albertson's is. And outside of the midwest, nobody knows what a HyVee is.
- pkaye 10y ago
  What about Trader Joe's? Good quality at more reasonable prices.
  - jimmywanger 10y ago
    Did you miss my entire reply? Was trying to provide a common point of reference. Whole Foods exists in the UK and Canada. Trader Joe's does not.
TaylorAlexander 10y ago
I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how much more expensive Whole Foods is compared to a place like Safeway.
- akiselev 10y ago
  The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices for alcohol are the same, stuff like produce, coffee, and cereal can have a huge price differences even from the same vendor. Likewise, Trader Joes has the cheapest and best eggs, milk, and other staples in my general area, despite being overall more expensive. When it comes to produce or meat, I have never seen anything at Whole Foods that would be more expensive at a low end grocery.
  - thenewwazoo 10y ago
    Your experience definitely does not mirror mine. Where I live, there's a WF literally across the street from a Safeway. I've extensively comparison-shopped, and have found that WF's produce (I don't eat meat, sorry) is always cheaper than Safeway's, and there's lots more selection. In general, the local WF is cheaper for anything shopping the perimeter. Packaged goods are more expensive, and often not brand-for-brand comparable owing to WF's banned ingredients.
    - akiselev 10y ago
      Where do you live? My experience comes from wealthy suburbs in Los Angeles and Miami as well as the Bay Area in general but different markets are different. There can be many effects in play like marketing, staffing, and real estate prices. The Vons I mentioned is actually getting more expensive while the Pavilions is getting cheaper because the Vons cut back on cashiers. The longer lines have caused many of my friends and I to start shopping at Pavilions, which is causing a death spiral as Vons tries to charge more for produce just so they can pay the overhead on the building (the Vons location costs twice as much in rent as the Pavilions because of lease terms and the outdoor mall it's in, despite being across the street).
      - thedudemabry 10y ago
- admksx45v65uqpw 10y ago
  Whole Foods and Safeway are both expensive in the Bay Area. You want something cheap, go to Lucky's.
- Spooky23 10y ago
  Those sorts of things are loss leaders. If you pick 20 random items at Whole Foods, you see a 30-50% price difference. My sister is a Whole Foods acolyte. She spends like $6 a gallon for shirt dated, ultra pasteurized milk because While Foods. Same product made in the same dairy at the local store for normals is like $2.79/g. I used to like whole foods for the cheese and hot bar. But as they made the prepared food shittier and local groceries upped the cheese game, it's just a ripoff.
akiselev 10y ago
Have you shopped at Whole Foods or Bristol Farms for seasonal products? Compared to the major grocery store chains their produce is leaps and bounds better. I don't believe in the organic marketing crap but their food, especially when it comes to fruit, is amazing, unlike anything you can find at Kroger, Publix, or Safeway. Cherries, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, peaches, pears, apples, tomatoes, and countless of other produce taste much better than anything I can get at a normal grocery. Hell, I have very fond memories of eating fresh food from my grandparents dacha or picking wild berries in the forest behind my school and the high end grocers are the only place where they taste even remotely as good as what I had in Russia. Russia. You get what you are willing to pay for, especially when it costs two to three times the lower end.
- greeneggs 10y ago
  Whole Foods produce is only better in areas that have a Whole Foods. In areas without a Whole Foods, all the produce goes to the lower-end stores and sold for the lower prices, regardless of quality. Once Whole Foods moves in, they split off the higher-quality produce, selling it for a higher price, and the quality everywhere else drops.
  - akiselev 10y ago
    Do you have any data on that? How would you know that the food that would be marked up by Whole Foods is sent instead to regular groceries to be sold for cheaper? Maybe the good produce grown locally at small scale is sold to local stores but given the extremely lucrative agricultural export market, I find it very hard to believe that the good produce is sold cheap locally instead of shipped elsewhere at a huge markup. California avacados or oranges, for example, cost significantly more in Florida or New York, far beyond the extra cost of transportation, spoilage, etc. and this profitability fuels the California agriculture industry.
- steveax 10y ago
  Part of this is due to volume. A chain like Safeway needs massive volume to supply all their stores. A smaller chain can be more selective in what they buy because they need smaller amounts. Smaller chains are also more willing to deal with local farms directly for regional supply. In PDX, I'd rank the produce quality as: 1) farmers market (unlike many cities, in Portland the vendors are the farmers) 2) Zupans - on the spendy side but quite good 3) Whole Foods 4) Fred Meyers 5) New Seasons - small local chain, but lousy buyers 6) Safeway
dekhn 10y ago
Nah, I shop at both Safeway and Whole Foods, and the comparable products are cheaper at Whole Foods (vegetables, fruits, and meat) on the whole, except for the very high end items.
dragonwriter 10y ago
Most grocery stores with a reputation for being expensive or upscale actually have list prices on comparable goods to "cheaper" stores, but carry a preponderance of more expensive products that the cheaper stores don't carry at all. (This is for general chain grocery stores; independent and ethnic stores don't necessarily follow the danger pattern.)

jimmywanger 10y ago

My main point is that most western groceries have an expectation of having any produce in any season, eg apples during the summer and peaches during the winter. Whole Food is just an example of a national food chain most people are familiar with. For example, outside of the west coast, nobody knows what an Albertson's is. And outside of the midwest, nobody knows what a HyVee is.

pkaye 10y ago
What about Trader Joe's? Good quality at more reasonable prices.
- jimmywanger 10y ago
  Did you miss my entire reply? Was trying to provide a common point of reference. Whole Foods exists in the UK and Canada. Trader Joe's does not.

TaylorAlexander 10y ago

I hear people say that, but I keep seeing things that are cheaper at Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. Identical products, like Endangered Species brand 88% dark chocolate and Racer 5 IPA beer are cheaper at my local Whole Foods than they are at Safeway. $3.29 vs $3.99 and $4.99 vs $5.99, respectively. Their produce and meat may be more expensive, but appears to be of higher quality. I'm not actually sure how much more expensive Whole Foods is compared to a place like Safeway.

akiselev 10y ago
The two stores deal with very different tagret markets and have very different economics. Whole Foods shoppers are willing to spend way more on produce, which is usually very low margin, so they don't need to make up the profit on their other items. Compare, for example Vons and Pavilions, which are owned by the same company. In my town we have a Vons literally across the street from Pavilions and while their prices for alcohol are the same, stuff like produce, coffee, and cereal can have a huge price differences even from the same vendor. Likewise, Trader Joes has the cheapest and best eggs, milk, and other staples in my general area, despite being overall more expensive. When it comes to produce or meat, I have never seen anything at Whole Foods that would be more expensive at a low end grocery.
- thenewwazoo 10y ago
  Your experience definitely does not mirror mine. Where I live, there's a WF literally across the street from a Safeway. I've extensively comparison-shopped, and have found that WF's produce (I don't eat meat, sorry) is always cheaper than Safeway's, and there's lots more selection. In general, the local WF is cheaper for anything shopping the perimeter. Packaged goods are more expensive, and often not brand-for-brand comparable owing to WF's banned ingredients.
  - akiselev 10y ago
    Where do you live? My experience comes from wealthy suburbs in Los Angeles and Miami as well as the Bay Area in general but different markets are different. There can be many effects in play like marketing, staffing, and real estate prices. The Vons I mentioned is actually getting more expensive while the Pavilions is getting cheaper because the Vons cut back on cashiers. The longer lines have caused many of my friends and I to start shopping at Pavilions, which is causing a death spiral as Vons tries to charge more for produce just so they can pay the overhead on the building (the Vons location costs twice as much in rent as the Pavilions because of lease terms and the outdoor mall it's in, despite being across the street).
    - thedudemabry 10y ago
admksx45v65uqpw 10y ago
Whole Foods and Safeway are both expensive in the Bay Area. You want something cheap, go to Lucky's.
Spooky23 10y ago
Those sorts of things are loss leaders. If you pick 20 random items at Whole Foods, you see a 30-50% price difference. My sister is a Whole Foods acolyte. She spends like $6 a gallon for shirt dated, ultra pasteurized milk because While Foods. Same product made in the same dairy at the local store for normals is like $2.79/g. I used to like whole foods for the cheese and hot bar. But as they made the prepared food shittier and local groceries upped the cheese game, it's just a ripoff.

akiselev 10y ago

Have you shopped at Whole Foods or Bristol Farms for seasonal products? Compared to the major grocery store chains their produce is leaps and bounds better. I don't believe in the organic marketing crap but their food, especially when it comes to fruit, is amazing, unlike anything you can find at Kroger, Publix, or Safeway. Cherries, strawberries, blueberries, raspberries, peaches, pears, apples, tomatoes, and countless of other produce taste much better than anything I can get at a normal grocery. Hell, I have very fond memories of eating fresh food from my grandparents dacha or picking wild berries in the forest behind my school and the high end grocers are the only place where they taste even remotely as good as what I had in Russia. Russia. You get what you are willing to pay for, especially when it costs two to three times the lower end.

greeneggs 10y ago
Whole Foods produce is only better in areas that have a Whole Foods. In areas without a Whole Foods, all the produce goes to the lower-end stores and sold for the lower prices, regardless of quality. Once Whole Foods moves in, they split off the higher-quality produce, selling it for a higher price, and the quality everywhere else drops.
- akiselev 10y ago
  Do you have any data on that? How would you know that the food that would be marked up by Whole Foods is sent instead to regular groceries to be sold for cheaper? Maybe the good produce grown locally at small scale is sold to local stores but given the extremely lucrative agricultural export market, I find it very hard to believe that the good produce is sold cheap locally instead of shipped elsewhere at a huge markup. California avacados or oranges, for example, cost significantly more in Florida or New York, far beyond the extra cost of transportation, spoilage, etc. and this profitability fuels the California agriculture industry.
steveax 10y ago
Part of this is due to volume. A chain like Safeway needs massive volume to supply all their stores. A smaller chain can be more selective in what they buy because they need smaller amounts. Smaller chains are also more willing to deal with local farms directly for regional supply. In PDX, I'd rank the produce quality as: 1) farmers market (unlike many cities, in Portland the vendors are the farmers) 2) Zupans - on the spendy side but quite good 3) Whole Foods 4) Fred Meyers 5) New Seasons - small local chain, but lousy buyers 6) Safeway

dekhn 10y ago

Nah, I shop at both Safeway and Whole Foods, and the comparable products are cheaper at Whole Foods (vegetables, fruits, and meat) on the whole, except for the very high end items.

dragonwriter 10y ago

Most grocery stores with a reputation for being expensive or upscale actually have list prices on comparable goods to "cheaper" stores, but carry a preponderance of more expensive products that the cheaper stores don't carry at all. (This is for general chain grocery stores; independent and ethnic stores don't necessarily follow the danger pattern.)