7 ms·

For most of my life, I was the classic "shy until you get to know him" kind of guy. I thought that's just how I was. But then ten years ago, I started LARPing,

For most of my life, I was the classic "shy until you get to know him" kind of guy. I thought that's just how I was. But then ten years ago, I started LARPing, and I decided to play an extrovert - someone who could walk up to a stranger and strike up a conversation. So I did. And even though I was nervous as hell, I did it during the game, in the guise of my character. For a couple years, I was really into the game. It was my life every weekend. I probably spent more social time pretending to be someone else than I did being myself. And a funny thing happened... I became that guy for real. It's not just that I'm no longer nervous, I genuinely enjoy talking to new people. I barely recognize my old introverted self. So I believe this. Who we are is just a snapshot in time.

fizixer 10y ago
But is there any side to your old self that you miss, or was a good thing that is not there any more? E.g., I feel once you get used to 'increased social stimulation' it becomes harder to spend solid chunks of time by yourself doing deep/creative mental work. Any comments?
- Frondo 10y ago
  Similar thing happened to me (for promoting my business at networking events, not LARPing), but I never lost the deep creative mental work habit. I just went to networking events constantly, but kept on coding when I wasn't doing that sort of thing. Now I can do either, without even thinking about it. It's like a lightswitch, when I'm in a group I can just start chattering away, but when I get up a code editor I don't even think about getting down to it, itjust happens.
  - moron4hire 10y ago
    I have had a similar experience. There is a weird notion in our culture that introversion vs extroversion is a choice between "creative vs outgoing", with the unstated implication being it's really "creative vs not creative". I spent way too long not taking care of myself because I thought I was an introvert. No, I was depressed and I needed help. But some people seem to wear their introversion like some kind of badge of honor. And then, under some perverse guise of being supportive, we don't call people out on it and tell them they are wrong. It never occurred to me my feelings were depression until my sister revealed her struggle with it as an attempt to get me to go to therapy. Could have saved many years if someone had just told me, "no, this is not a healthy lifestyle, staying in and reading books and playing games, to the exclusion of making any new relationships".
    - mike4ty4 10y ago
      However here you're using a pathological condition (depression) to make a judgment about a normal one (introversion). That is not necessarily reasonable. Introversion doesn't have to imply asocial; but rather just that the person can't socialize or more generally _absorb external stimulation_, _for an extended enough period_. And the world does need introverted people too who prefer to sit around cooking up ideas in their head as much as it needs extroverted people to put together teams to realize those ideas.
- Pharylon 10y ago
  Well, there are trade-offs. I probably read less, but I think I'm more creative, since I collaborate more.
specialist 10y ago
How you talk changes how you think. That's why propaganda works. In fact, most people don't even realize they've changed. I've purposefully changed my personality (behavior?) twice, about to start my thrice effort. The first time, nor longer wanting to be angry, and having run out of ideas, I decided to pretend to be happy. I had read that you can't unlearn a habit, only replace it. So I played chipper all the time. When asked how I was, I'd say something like "Phenomenal!" Initially, it was sarcastic. Then one day I woke up and I felt phenomenal. I was gobsmacked. I didn't even know the change was taking place. The transition took about three years. The second time, I ran for office. Deluding oneself is part of the job. A bit like how sales people can convince themselves the next customer will say "Yes!" This book came out after my first change. It jives with my experience. How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work https://amzn.com/078796378X
- danieltillett 10y ago
  I did something similar. I was going through a hard time personally and I found myself being negative about everything. I decided to start a "negativity jar" into which I put 20c everytime I said something negative. I promised my suffering work colleagues I would spend the proceeds taking out to dinner at the end of the year. It really work well and a few hundred dollars later I was out of my reflexive negativity rut. The only downside was the resident junkie at work stole all the money - at least everyone was understanding on why they missed out on dinner.
  - soneca 10y ago
    Did you say negative things about the junkie?
    - danieltillett 10y ago
      I actually laughter about it at the time due to the irony. He was actually quite a nice person (apart from his drug habit). My problems were minor by comparison.
  - dasil003 10y ago
danieltillett 10y ago
You can practice being more extroverted until you get good at social interaction. I can context switch between the two (introvert / extrovert), but I would tend to think of myself as more innately an introvert in that I am quite happy on my own. The true extroverts seem to find being alone quite hard.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  I suppose it's trainable as well. But your past is always a part of you; an extrovert who trained themselves to be comfortable alone may still think of themselves as "more innately an extrovert".
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    Yes I agree although I have never come across an extrovert who wanted to become more intovert.
analog31 10y ago
In a related way, I was almost pathologically shy as a teenager, and even into my college years. What may have helped me break out of my shell was becoming a performing jazz musician, and discovering that I could make glaring mistakes with practically no consequences. I also did a bunch of teaching. Today, I'm capable of, and enjoy, stereotypically introverted activities such as math and programming, and those things have helped me advance my career, but I don't need them as an escape from society. When asked, I tell people that I'm mildly extroverted. My main reason is simply that there's a stigma against introverts in our society.
unabst 10y ago
"There are no actors, only actions." -- Nietzche It's all practice. So if you practice being a new you, you will become good at being that person. And it so happens that's how we become good at our first selves. We just don't remember it, and it was likely unintentional. As we mature, we are given every right to choose the adult we wish to be, and how to behave. But making the leap requires incentive, intention, and some real effort, because practice is labor. Except when it becomes a labor of love, we become empowered by it, not tired by it. That is why passion is paramount, and we should all have a passion for who we are.
- TeMPOraL 10y ago
  > Except when it becomes a labor of love, we become empowered by it, not tired by it. That is why passion is paramount, and we should all have a passion for who we are. The trick is, and what I learned over time - labour comes first, then comes the passion. Rarely it is the other way around. Waiting for passion to strike is why a lot of people (recent version of myself included!) are stuck.
  - unabst 10y ago
    Passion always comes. It's what you're doing when it comes, whether you can recognize it, and whether you can run with it. Choosing to be gritty first is not a requirement. Chances are, you'd have still found passion elsewhere doing other things. You've just found a way to successfully seek it in labor. The problem is: 1) We hate to admit it sometimes. If you're reading a comic book or playing video games, we make it not count. Parents are guilty of this with their children also. Passion is not a choice between school subjects or job titles. There are kids with a passion for picking their nose. It won't get them anywhere, but they toyed around, discovered it, and found it. It's passion. It's what turns you on. 2) It can be passion against. If you hate your job, it isn't because you don't have passion for it, and no, no amount of waiting will grant it. What you have is passion against it. And this is where most of the anti-passion sentiment comes from. They find passion too illusive and metaphysical, all not knowing it came and passed already. It was the loathing they had for their job. Sadly, they overcame it. They overcame their passion. 3) We don't act on it. Unless you're still picking your nose, we need to act on our passion more. There are youtube millionaires that play video games all day. Someone has to draw comic books, and they're all adults. Not all passions will lead to professions, but it should still be your goal. Of course, passion does not equal happiness nor success. It's what you do with it. Anecdotally, the parallels between love is uncanny. 1) We often hate to admit who we fell for, 2) we can be passionate against someone (opposite side of the same coin, just see 90% of romantic comedies), and 3) if we don't act on it, it never flourishes. And love does not equal happiness nor success. It's what you do with it. And we always fall in love. Maybe it's just who you're staring at when it happens...
Hinrik 10y ago
>I was the classic "shy until you get to know him" kind of guy. [...] > I barely recognize my old introverted self. Shyness and introversion aren't the same thing. Sounds like you were shy, but not anymore. Whether you're introverted/ambiverted/extroverted is another matter.
- MawNicker 10y ago
  The repressed extroverts wouldn't exist if they weren't miming introverts. That fact won't stop them from discovering themselves and assuming every introvert is actually a repressed extrovert. Also that there is only one innate type of human. I fear introversion will come to be seen as a developmental disability.
simonswords82 10y ago
For anybody else who doesn't know (like me!) LARPing is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game Sounds pretty neat! Almost like a game based therapy when used in this context.
kingkawn 10y ago
Very inspiring account of your own transformation! I think the concept of the fixed personality has done a lot of damage to people for the sake of predictability. That we're moving closer to embracing freedom of self on such a fundamental level is one of the truly encouraging things about this time.
- MawNicker 10y ago
  > That we're moving closer to embracing freedom of self on such a fundamental level is one of the truly encouraging things about this time. This has been done and done again for as long as there have been societies. The surveillance state will seal this freedom away for good. Then we will have order and we will "like" it.
  - kingkawn 10y ago
    The surveillance state cannot observe where the personality is made.
    - MawNicker 10y ago
      Are you sure? I assume you mean they can't observe the mind. But they can. We can now identify psychopaths with brain scans. There are also pro-social psychopaths. Do you think they will continue to have total freedom to live as such when everyone knows what they are? We've already decided ADHD is a disorder. If you want to institute industrialized education and 75% of the population adapts to it then what is the other 25%? I would argue ADHD is adaptive in some other context and that is why it exists. I absolutely love the "hyper-focus" aspect as a programmer. That won't stop the powers that be from assuming there's some mistake in the way I'm configured. This is especially scary when you can detect mental "disorders" via behavior on social media. Also when your boss is spying on everything that you do. Which is basically a thing at every major corporation now. Alternative configurations of the self are a risky endeavor and getting riskier. It makes me sad but I don't want false hope. Whatever idealogical awakening seems to be happening, it isn't being translated into the social structures that control us. Of course the former must precede the latter. But the former keeps popping up with increasing frequency and the latter is always further from reality.
jokoon 10y ago
You basically decided to "believe". I'm curious if you feel you "lost" some parts of you that you liked.

fizixer 10y ago

But is there any side to your old self that you miss, or was a good thing that is not there any more? E.g., I feel once you get used to 'increased social stimulation' it becomes harder to spend solid chunks of time by yourself doing deep/creative mental work. Any comments?

Frondo 10y ago
Similar thing happened to me (for promoting my business at networking events, not LARPing), but I never lost the deep creative mental work habit. I just went to networking events constantly, but kept on coding when I wasn't doing that sort of thing. Now I can do either, without even thinking about it. It's like a lightswitch, when I'm in a group I can just start chattering away, but when I get up a code editor I don't even think about getting down to it, itjust happens.
- moron4hire 10y ago
  I have had a similar experience. There is a weird notion in our culture that introversion vs extroversion is a choice between "creative vs outgoing", with the unstated implication being it's really "creative vs not creative". I spent way too long not taking care of myself because I thought I was an introvert. No, I was depressed and I needed help. But some people seem to wear their introversion like some kind of badge of honor. And then, under some perverse guise of being supportive, we don't call people out on it and tell them they are wrong. It never occurred to me my feelings were depression until my sister revealed her struggle with it as an attempt to get me to go to therapy. Could have saved many years if someone had just told me, "no, this is not a healthy lifestyle, staying in and reading books and playing games, to the exclusion of making any new relationships".
  - mike4ty4 10y ago
    However here you're using a pathological condition (depression) to make a judgment about a normal one (introversion). That is not necessarily reasonable. Introversion doesn't have to imply asocial; but rather just that the person can't socialize or more generally _absorb external stimulation_, _for an extended enough period_. And the world does need introverted people too who prefer to sit around cooking up ideas in their head as much as it needs extroverted people to put together teams to realize those ideas.
Pharylon 10y ago
Well, there are trade-offs. I probably read less, but I think I'm more creative, since I collaborate more.

specialist 10y ago

How you talk changes how you think. That's why propaganda works. In fact, most people don't even realize they've changed. I've purposefully changed my personality (behavior?) twice, about to start my thrice effort. The first time, nor longer wanting to be angry, and having run out of ideas, I decided to pretend to be happy. I had read that you can't unlearn a habit, only replace it. So I played chipper all the time. When asked how I was, I'd say something like "Phenomenal!" Initially, it was sarcastic. Then one day I woke up and I felt phenomenal. I was gobsmacked. I didn't even know the change was taking place. The transition took about three years. The second time, I ran for office. Deluding oneself is part of the job. A bit like how sales people can convince themselves the next customer will say "Yes!" This book came out after my first change. It jives with my experience. How the Way We Talk Can Change the Way We Work https://amzn.com/078796378X

danieltillett 10y ago
I did something similar. I was going through a hard time personally and I found myself being negative about everything. I decided to start a "negativity jar" into which I put 20c everytime I said something negative. I promised my suffering work colleagues I would spend the proceeds taking out to dinner at the end of the year. It really work well and a few hundred dollars later I was out of my reflexive negativity rut. The only downside was the resident junkie at work stole all the money - at least everyone was understanding on why they missed out on dinner.
- soneca 10y ago
  Did you say negative things about the junkie?
  - danieltillett 10y ago
    I actually laughter about it at the time due to the irony. He was actually quite a nice person (apart from his drug habit). My problems were minor by comparison.
- dasil003 10y ago

danieltillett 10y ago

You can practice being more extroverted until you get good at social interaction. I can context switch between the two (introvert / extrovert), but I would tend to think of myself as more innately an introvert in that I am quite happy on my own. The true extroverts seem to find being alone quite hard.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
I suppose it's trainable as well. But your past is always a part of you; an extrovert who trained themselves to be comfortable alone may still think of themselves as "more innately an extrovert".
- danieltillett 10y ago
  Yes I agree although I have never come across an extrovert who wanted to become more intovert.

analog31 10y ago

In a related way, I was almost pathologically shy as a teenager, and even into my college years. What may have helped me break out of my shell was becoming a performing jazz musician, and discovering that I could make glaring mistakes with practically no consequences. I also did a bunch of teaching. Today, I'm capable of, and enjoy, stereotypically introverted activities such as math and programming, and those things have helped me advance my career, but I don't need them as an escape from society. When asked, I tell people that I'm mildly extroverted. My main reason is simply that there's a stigma against introverts in our society.

unabst 10y ago

"There are no actors, only actions." -- Nietzche It's all practice. So if you practice being a new you, you will become good at being that person. And it so happens that's how we become good at our first selves. We just don't remember it, and it was likely unintentional. As we mature, we are given every right to choose the adult we wish to be, and how to behave. But making the leap requires incentive, intention, and some real effort, because practice is labor. Except when it becomes a labor of love, we become empowered by it, not tired by it. That is why passion is paramount, and we should all have a passion for who we are.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
> Except when it becomes a labor of love, we become empowered by it, not tired by it. That is why passion is paramount, and we should all have a passion for who we are. The trick is, and what I learned over time - labour comes first, then comes the passion. Rarely it is the other way around. Waiting for passion to strike is why a lot of people (recent version of myself included!) are stuck.
- unabst 10y ago
  Passion always comes. It's what you're doing when it comes, whether you can recognize it, and whether you can run with it. Choosing to be gritty first is not a requirement. Chances are, you'd have still found passion elsewhere doing other things. You've just found a way to successfully seek it in labor. The problem is: 1) We hate to admit it sometimes. If you're reading a comic book or playing video games, we make it not count. Parents are guilty of this with their children also. Passion is not a choice between school subjects or job titles. There are kids with a passion for picking their nose. It won't get them anywhere, but they toyed around, discovered it, and found it. It's passion. It's what turns you on. 2) It can be passion against. If you hate your job, it isn't because you don't have passion for it, and no, no amount of waiting will grant it. What you have is passion against it. And this is where most of the anti-passion sentiment comes from. They find passion too illusive and metaphysical, all not knowing it came and passed already. It was the loathing they had for their job. Sadly, they overcame it. They overcame their passion. 3) We don't act on it. Unless you're still picking your nose, we need to act on our passion more. There are youtube millionaires that play video games all day. Someone has to draw comic books, and they're all adults. Not all passions will lead to professions, but it should still be your goal. Of course, passion does not equal happiness nor success. It's what you do with it. Anecdotally, the parallels between love is uncanny. 1) We often hate to admit who we fell for, 2) we can be passionate against someone (opposite side of the same coin, just see 90% of romantic comedies), and 3) if we don't act on it, it never flourishes. And love does not equal happiness nor success. It's what you do with it. And we always fall in love. Maybe it's just who you're staring at when it happens...

Hinrik 10y ago

>I was the classic "shy until you get to know him" kind of guy. [...] > I barely recognize my old introverted self. Shyness and introversion aren't the same thing. Sounds like you were shy, but not anymore. Whether you're introverted/ambiverted/extroverted is another matter.

MawNicker 10y ago
The repressed extroverts wouldn't exist if they weren't miming introverts. That fact won't stop them from discovering themselves and assuming every introvert is actually a repressed extrovert. Also that there is only one innate type of human. I fear introversion will come to be seen as a developmental disability.

simonswords82 10y ago

For anybody else who doesn't know (like me!) LARPing is https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Live_action_role-playing_game Sounds pretty neat! Almost like a game based therapy when used in this context.

kingkawn 10y ago

Very inspiring account of your own transformation! I think the concept of the fixed personality has done a lot of damage to people for the sake of predictability. That we're moving closer to embracing freedom of self on such a fundamental level is one of the truly encouraging things about this time.

MawNicker 10y ago
> That we're moving closer to embracing freedom of self on such a fundamental level is one of the truly encouraging things about this time. This has been done and done again for as long as there have been societies. The surveillance state will seal this freedom away for good. Then we will have order and we will "like" it.
- kingkawn 10y ago
  The surveillance state cannot observe where the personality is made.
  - MawNicker 10y ago
    Are you sure? I assume you mean they can't observe the mind. But they can. We can now identify psychopaths with brain scans. There are also pro-social psychopaths. Do you think they will continue to have total freedom to live as such when everyone knows what they are? We've already decided ADHD is a disorder. If you want to institute industrialized education and 75% of the population adapts to it then what is the other 25%? I would argue ADHD is adaptive in some other context and that is why it exists. I absolutely love the "hyper-focus" aspect as a programmer. That won't stop the powers that be from assuming there's some mistake in the way I'm configured. This is especially scary when you can detect mental "disorders" via behavior on social media. Also when your boss is spying on everything that you do. Which is basically a thing at every major corporation now. Alternative configurations of the self are a risky endeavor and getting riskier. It makes me sad but I don't want false hope. Whatever idealogical awakening seems to be happening, it isn't being translated into the social structures that control us. Of course the former must precede the latter. But the former keeps popping up with increasing frequency and the latter is always further from reality.

jokoon 10y ago

You basically decided to "believe". I'm curious if you feel you "lost" some parts of you that you liked.