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Unfortunately this will also be reflected on other countries, give it a few months and we'll be dealing with the same kind of shit in Italy, France etc... The

by tatoalo 10y ago

Unfortunately this will also be reflected on other countries, give it a few months and we'll be dealing with the same kind of shit in Italy, France etc... The saddest part is that older people(fact) practically decided for the future of the younger ones.

visarga 10y ago
Everyone gets a vote. But old people have more experience and more are more invested. Maybe they remember something we don't know.
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  i used to think the same when younger... not anymore. old have experience, true. Most of it is coming from different era, different world than current one. Apart from basic moral principles, for which you don't need age to conform to, their experiences didn't transfer well. Most of old are more or less completely lost in current fast-pacing world. they cling desperately to anything/anybody that still speaks to them and makes sense to them, no matter the content. I can see it clearly all around, including my family. my parents, and I love them with all my heart, have simplistic views on politics (although both have university degree). easily to be persuaded, missing bigger picture and view beyond couple of months/years. my grandparents, they are completely lost in this world. they mostly look only what would affect their pension payouts and medical care fees. it doesn't matter if a proper gangster would be handling small financial favors to them, they would go that way. older people are more invested? nope - we young will live much more of our lives in system that is coming compared to them. We have much more motivation to live in system that is stable and working well in long run (>20 years). it's fair to have same voting rights, but how much do we expect from usual > 70 years old in terms of clever voting decisions? Zero, and politicians know this, hence campaigns are quite emotional to work with them.
  - sievebrain 10y ago
    I can guarantee that a lot of "old" people think young voters are idiots who have no clue and are easily manipulated through their emotions.
  - 551199 10y ago
    Don't sell your friends and loved ones short. You might want to have a look at Bryan Caplan's book "The Myth of the Rational Voter". Quite eye opening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Rational_Voter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Rational_Voter
- br3w5 10y ago
  My 94 year old grandfather flew a spitfire in WW2 and voted in he said precisely because he remembers the mess the UK was in before joining the union - the British economy and infrastructure was in a sorry state in the 70s.
  - wtbob 10y ago
    > My 94 year old grandfather flew a spitfire in WW2 and voted in he said precisely because he remembers the mess the UK was in before joining the union - the British economy and infrastructure was in a sorry state in the 70s. That was due to Labour's insane economic policies and the Tories failure to fix them. It wasn't until Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister that the UK started to be well-run again.
    - emp_zealoth 10y ago
      "Well run" The housing insaninty is a direct effect of her crazy policies. Yes, she did do some good, but at great, needless cost It's like amputating both legs and a hand just because a pinky went bad...
      - prodmerc 10y ago
        Should've just left things as they were, right?
- ForHackernews 10y ago
  > But old people have more experience and more are more invested In what way are they more invested? They have ~5-25 more years left and then it makes no difference to them. Furthermore, they're likely pretty settled in their life and already retired. Young people are still building their lives, trying to establish their career. They're likely going to be denied the opportunity to live and work in 27 countries. I think it's pretty disgraceful that they've torpedoed our future based on their hazy rose-coloured memories of some supposedly-better past.
  - pmden 10y ago
    "Denied the opportunity" is a gross exaggeration, given in most European Union member states the number of foreign-born residents is made up primarily from people born outside the European Union. EU member states are generally regarded as generous when it comes to migration, much to the dismay and consistent criticism of their respective tabloid papers. I'm also skeptical of your conclusion as to why people voted leave. In case you missed the poll, it wasn't just the 65+ age range that voted this way. Even down to the 25-49 group you're looking at a 45% leave vote. Age distribution isn't equal either - the majority of the UK falls in the 25-64 group band, which varies between voting leave or voting remain depending on which poll you look at.
grondilu 10y ago
> The saddest part is that older people(fact) practically decided for the future of the younger ones. Why is it sad? Do you think the vote of young people should weigh more than the vote of old people? That'd be discrimination.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Well the young people have to note live in the world much longer. They have to get educated, finds jobs, develop their politics, grow their selves. The old people mostly have done all that and don't have a primary interest making those things easy. The ramifications won't be felt for perhaps 3 years and then not fully for perhaps a decade. It's not sad, to me (not the parent) that the voting power of each person is the same; it's sad - though expected - that older people seemingly looked to their own interests and not those of the people who will have to live through it more.
  - hmmdiggy 10y ago
    > that older people seemingly looked to their own interests That's an assumption. You could even look at it another way and say it's the other way around where they've lived in the UK prior to being in the EU and know what the UK is capable of on it's own.
  - zo1 10y ago
    >"that older people seemingly looked to their own interests and not those of the people who will have to live through it more." You're making assumptions there as to peoples' individual motivations. Just because someone voted in a way that you deem is not in the best interests of another group doesn't mean that they didn't have that group's best interest in mind. I personally think this is a good thing for both young and old people. So in your mind, me voting to "leave" would actually be me not-voting in the interests of the young?
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      You're right of course, the young people (I'm off course talking in generality of the modal opinion) could be misguided in what they wanted, but they wanted it. I suppose it's also possible there was a cadre of older people who felt the young would be better out of the EU - the same problems but no say in how to fix them and less cooperation, that's got to help /s - but who choose to keep silent about that position?
skocznymroczny 10y ago
The backlash towards older people in UK isn't because they decided the future for younger ones, it's because they decided the future the media and politicians don't want. Unlike most European countries, in Poland young people, especially the ones just entering the voting age, vote overwhelmingly right-wing, and they are also criticized. But this time it isn't "deciding future for younger ones", it's "lack of experience and wisdom that comes with age".

by tatoalo 10y ago

visarga 10y ago

Everyone gets a vote. But old people have more experience and more are more invested. Maybe they remember something we don't know.

saiya-jin 10y ago
i used to think the same when younger... not anymore. old have experience, true. Most of it is coming from different era, different world than current one. Apart from basic moral principles, for which you don't need age to conform to, their experiences didn't transfer well. Most of old are more or less completely lost in current fast-pacing world. they cling desperately to anything/anybody that still speaks to them and makes sense to them, no matter the content. I can see it clearly all around, including my family. my parents, and I love them with all my heart, have simplistic views on politics (although both have university degree). easily to be persuaded, missing bigger picture and view beyond couple of months/years. my grandparents, they are completely lost in this world. they mostly look only what would affect their pension payouts and medical care fees. it doesn't matter if a proper gangster would be handling small financial favors to them, they would go that way. older people are more invested? nope - we young will live much more of our lives in system that is coming compared to them. We have much more motivation to live in system that is stable and working well in long run (>20 years). it's fair to have same voting rights, but how much do we expect from usual > 70 years old in terms of clever voting decisions? Zero, and politicians know this, hence campaigns are quite emotional to work with them.
- sievebrain 10y ago
  I can guarantee that a lot of "old" people think young voters are idiots who have no clue and are easily manipulated through their emotions.
- 551199 10y ago
  Don't sell your friends and loved ones short. You might want to have a look at Bryan Caplan's book "The Myth of the Rational Voter". Quite eye opening: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Rational_Voter https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Myth_of_the_Rational_Voter
br3w5 10y ago
My 94 year old grandfather flew a spitfire in WW2 and voted in he said precisely because he remembers the mess the UK was in before joining the union - the British economy and infrastructure was in a sorry state in the 70s.
- wtbob 10y ago
  > My 94 year old grandfather flew a spitfire in WW2 and voted in he said precisely because he remembers the mess the UK was in before joining the union - the British economy and infrastructure was in a sorry state in the 70s. That was due to Labour's insane economic policies and the Tories failure to fix them. It wasn't until Margaret Thatcher became Prime Minister that the UK started to be well-run again.
  - emp_zealoth 10y ago
    "Well run" The housing insaninty is a direct effect of her crazy policies. Yes, she did do some good, but at great, needless cost It's like amputating both legs and a hand just because a pinky went bad...
    - prodmerc 10y ago
      Should've just left things as they were, right?
ForHackernews 10y ago
> But old people have more experience and more are more invested In what way are they more invested? They have ~5-25 more years left and then it makes no difference to them. Furthermore, they're likely pretty settled in their life and already retired. Young people are still building their lives, trying to establish their career. They're likely going to be denied the opportunity to live and work in 27 countries. I think it's pretty disgraceful that they've torpedoed our future based on their hazy rose-coloured memories of some supposedly-better past.
- pmden 10y ago
  "Denied the opportunity" is a gross exaggeration, given in most European Union member states the number of foreign-born residents is made up primarily from people born outside the European Union. EU member states are generally regarded as generous when it comes to migration, much to the dismay and consistent criticism of their respective tabloid papers. I'm also skeptical of your conclusion as to why people voted leave. In case you missed the poll, it wasn't just the 65+ age range that voted this way. Even down to the 25-49 group you're looking at a 45% leave vote. Age distribution isn't equal either - the majority of the UK falls in the 25-64 group band, which varies between voting leave or voting remain depending on which poll you look at.

grondilu 10y ago

> The saddest part is that older people(fact) practically decided for the future of the younger ones. Why is it sad? Do you think the vote of young people should weigh more than the vote of old people? That'd be discrimination.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Well the young people have to note live in the world much longer. They have to get educated, finds jobs, develop their politics, grow their selves. The old people mostly have done all that and don't have a primary interest making those things easy. The ramifications won't be felt for perhaps 3 years and then not fully for perhaps a decade. It's not sad, to me (not the parent) that the voting power of each person is the same; it's sad - though expected - that older people seemingly looked to their own interests and not those of the people who will have to live through it more.
- hmmdiggy 10y ago
  > that older people seemingly looked to their own interests That's an assumption. You could even look at it another way and say it's the other way around where they've lived in the UK prior to being in the EU and know what the UK is capable of on it's own.
- zo1 10y ago
  >"that older people seemingly looked to their own interests and not those of the people who will have to live through it more." You're making assumptions there as to peoples' individual motivations. Just because someone voted in a way that you deem is not in the best interests of another group doesn't mean that they didn't have that group's best interest in mind. I personally think this is a good thing for both young and old people. So in your mind, me voting to "leave" would actually be me not-voting in the interests of the young?
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    You're right of course, the young people (I'm off course talking in generality of the modal opinion) could be misguided in what they wanted, but they wanted it. I suppose it's also possible there was a cadre of older people who felt the young would be better out of the EU - the same problems but no say in how to fix them and less cooperation, that's got to help /s - but who choose to keep silent about that position?

skocznymroczny 10y ago

The backlash towards older people in UK isn't because they decided the future for younger ones, it's because they decided the future the media and politicians don't want. Unlike most European countries, in Poland young people, especially the ones just entering the voting age, vote overwhelmingly right-wing, and they are also criticized. But this time it isn't "deciding future for younger ones", it's "lack of experience and wisdom that comes with age".