5 ms·

Well, maybe not entirely zero sum--if the advertisement lets you know about something you'd want but previously didn't know about, that's a net plus. Then again

by arijun 10y ago

Well, maybe not entirely zero sum--if the advertisement lets you know about something you'd want but previously didn't know about, that's a net plus. Then again, those diet pill ads and other scams are a net minus, so maybe it washes out to 0 net.

chii 10y ago
> if the advertisement lets you know about something you'd want but previously didn't know about, that's a net plus i count those things not as adverts, but as information sources. An advert is something that tries to convince you to buy _their_ brand of a thing, rather than informing you of the existance of a thing you didnt know about. Suppose there's a universal catalog which lists all possible products/services, then you'd have no need of the former, but the latter is still a zero sum game.
- kerryfalk 10y ago
  I don't really grasp your analogy but your definition of advertising is not complete. Advertising does indeed include messages to increase product/brand awareness. It could be argued that in most advertising, this is actually the case.
  - chii 10y ago
    > product/brand awareness this is the distinction i'd like to make - branding advertising is the zero sum game i was talking about above. Product awareness is simply information - using an advert to tell me about a thing that i didnt know is not really advertising to me, but showing me that a certian music player is so much better, because it makes me hip and cool , _is_ advertising of the zero sum kind. If i were to buy a music player, i want information, specs, and i'll choose based on objective comparisons. I don't want to, or need to take branding into account, and neither should anyone else! It's illogical!
    - manigandham 10y ago
      > I don't want to, or need to take branding into account, and neither should anyone else! It's illogical! And yet you do, even if you think you don't. There are hundreds of billions of dollars spent on branding because it works, it's human behavior to have preferences and emotions and tapping into that as a business is the opposite of illogical.
- arijun 10y ago
  It's a bit tautological to say "If you remove all but x, then it's comprised entirely of x." I don't think most people would agree with your definition of ads, either. The first iphone ads were probably showing a lot of people something they didn't know existed, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who called the "iphone information services" instead of ads. Even in the realm of what you might consider to be zero sum ads, that might not always be the case. "Oh this car has 4 wheel drive? That's something I could actually use." Boom, added utility.

by arijun 10y ago

chii 10y ago

> if the advertisement lets you know about something you'd want but previously didn't know about, that's a net plus i count those things not as adverts, but as information sources. An advert is something that tries to convince you to buy _their_ brand of a thing, rather than informing you of the existance of a thing you didnt know about. Suppose there's a universal catalog which lists all possible products/services, then you'd have no need of the former, but the latter is still a zero sum game.

kerryfalk 10y ago
I don't really grasp your analogy but your definition of advertising is not complete. Advertising does indeed include messages to increase product/brand awareness. It could be argued that in most advertising, this is actually the case.
- chii 10y ago
  > product/brand awareness this is the distinction i'd like to make - branding advertising is the zero sum game i was talking about above. Product awareness is simply information - using an advert to tell me about a thing that i didnt know is not really advertising to me, but showing me that a certian music player is so much better, because it makes me hip and cool , _is_ advertising of the zero sum kind. If i were to buy a music player, i want information, specs, and i'll choose based on objective comparisons. I don't want to, or need to take branding into account, and neither should anyone else! It's illogical!
  - manigandham 10y ago
    > I don't want to, or need to take branding into account, and neither should anyone else! It's illogical! And yet you do, even if you think you don't. There are hundreds of billions of dollars spent on branding because it works, it's human behavior to have preferences and emotions and tapping into that as a business is the opposite of illogical.
arijun 10y ago
It's a bit tautological to say "If you remove all but x, then it's comprised entirely of x." I don't think most people would agree with your definition of ads, either. The first iphone ads were probably showing a lot of people something they didn't know existed, but you'd be hard pressed to find someone who called the "iphone information services" instead of ads. Even in the realm of what you might consider to be zero sum ads, that might not always be the case. "Oh this car has 4 wheel drive? That's something I could actually use." Boom, added utility.