4 ms·

It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of

by netcan 10y ago

It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of living. People still keep pouring in and successful cities stand out in terms of household income. Even as the internet makes geography less relevant, the competition for living in cities keeps growing.

api 10y ago
I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. This draws more young ambitious people, which amplifies the effect. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it. I also wonder if wealth stratification is playing a role. Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- brooklyndavs 10y ago
  "Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live." Which, in 2016, is kinda crazy. One would think with the internet being geographically close to capital wouldn't matter as much. Now it matters more than ever before it seems. It's sad that the young midwesterner (hey that was me once!) has to try to "get to NYC" for the best opportunities instead of modern communications making those opportunities available in places like Chicago, or Indy, or that person's small hometown. That person shouldn't have to choose between sharing a one bedroom apartment in Bushwick with 4 other people or remain jobless/stuck at one job in whatever middle of the country place that person resides in.
  - ececconi 10y ago
    I work out of Chicago about a week a month. Most of my college friends live in Chicago and have very good jobs in the technology and financial industry. Couple that with being able to live in awesome parts of town without even thinking about the cost, drinks/food that are much cheaper than NYC at the high end, etc. I think it's a great place with awesome people.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    Ironically, a recent contact told me of people who work there remotely, but from California. We're doing it wrong :)
  - GFischer 10y ago
    I currently work remote (kind of), and have worked remote in the past. My perception is that it's much harder to get trusted and valued as a remote worker, unless you have the luck to be in a very meritocratic company (and I don't think it's possible to be 100% meritocratic). Social interactions are key for all but the most technical of positions (and even then, there's social dynamics at work, only through papers or mailing lists or whatever).
- wdmeldon 10y ago
  "This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it." I don't know about amplifying it, but it's certainly revealing that there are much better opportunities out there. Working in the midwest and reading about the coasts is depressing as hell.
  - ArkyBeagle 10y ago
    As an Old Guy the coasts are depressing as hell.
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. Speaking as a late-20's midwesterner, I don't think it's about success or "FOMO" as much as it is about lifestyle. The Midwest doesn't have real cities (except for Chicago). You really can't have an urban lifestyle in the Midwest. The cities here simply aren't developed enough to support it, and likely never will be. Someone from Indianapolis / Cincinnati / Milwaukee / etc might respond to try to argue that you can, or that they do. But realistically, they're kidding and everyone knows it -- it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle. That doesn't make those places bad, it's not a slight against people who want suburban or rural lifestyles. But if your the kind of person who wants an urban lifestyle, you probably won't be satisfied by anything Midwestern (sans Chicago) because that type of lifestyle simply doesn't exist here. This is where the "get to NYC" ambition comes from, far more than any idea of success or "FOMO", in my opinion.
  - dionidium 10y ago
    it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle. The benefits fall off pretty quickly after NYC, Chicago, LA, and San Francisco. As a Midwesterner who has long considered a move for exactly the reasons you mentioned, my reaction to a move to Philadelphia or Seattle or Austin (or whatever) is basically, "why bother?" I can live an "urban enough by comparison" lifestyle right here. But, that's not true of the Big Four.
    - tropo 10y ago
      For city life, Boston clearly beats San Francisco. In the USA, probably only New York can beat Boston. Prime example: two decades ago, Boston's MBTA T (subway/tram/light rail stuff) had technology that San Francisco's MUNI still can't manage. LA is a sprawl. Chicago is a war zone. Well, LA is that too. This may be city life, but it doesn't count if we're considering positive attributes!
- netcan 10y ago
  I think you're right about FOMO and the internet. Stuff like Meetup, Tinder or flash mob facebook groups only really work in cities, the bigger the better. OTOH, you are not totally isolated from stuff with the internet playing such a big part of culture. It's hard to argue with the economics, I guess. Cities have been drawing people in for a while now they haven't lost their pull.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  I had a feller from HP trying to get me to relocate to SiVa in the 1980s. I dunno. I calculated that land price made Texas better, and it was for quite a while. "If you aren't in SF or NYC you are nobody..." Whew. Okay then. "Wealth stratification" is, IMO, largely an artifact of 1) increasingly abstract wealth and 2) low interest rates. This is oh so very much because of the tax code and because of Fed policy.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I suspect you have to examine the premise that the internet makes geography less relevant. That's okay; I live in the middle of the country (something about which I am quite stubborn ) and a significant fraction of my recent job opportunities were based on somebody moving to Cali. Follow that yellow brick road.

by netcan 10y ago

api 10y ago

I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. This draws more young ambitious people, which amplifies the effect. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it. I also wonder if wealth stratification is playing a role. Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
brooklyndavs 10y ago
"Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live." Which, in 2016, is kinda crazy. One would think with the internet being geographically close to capital wouldn't matter as much. Now it matters more than ever before it seems. It's sad that the young midwesterner (hey that was me once!) has to try to "get to NYC" for the best opportunities instead of modern communications making those opportunities available in places like Chicago, or Indy, or that person's small hometown. That person shouldn't have to choose between sharing a one bedroom apartment in Bushwick with 4 other people or remain jobless/stuck at one job in whatever middle of the country place that person resides in.
- ececconi 10y ago
  I work out of Chicago about a week a month. Most of my college friends live in Chicago and have very good jobs in the technology and financial industry. Couple that with being able to live in awesome parts of town without even thinking about the cost, drinks/food that are much cheaper than NYC at the high end, etc. I think it's a great place with awesome people.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  Ironically, a recent contact told me of people who work there remotely, but from California. We're doing it wrong :)
- GFischer 10y ago
  I currently work remote (kind of), and have worked remote in the past. My perception is that it's much harder to get trusted and valued as a remote worker, unless you have the luck to be in a very meritocratic company (and I don't think it's possible to be 100% meritocratic). Social interactions are key for all but the most technical of positions (and even then, there's social dynamics at work, only through papers or mailing lists or whatever).
wdmeldon 10y ago
"This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it." I don't know about amplifying it, but it's certainly revealing that there are much better opportunities out there. Working in the midwest and reading about the coasts is depressing as hell.
- ArkyBeagle 10y ago
  As an Old Guy the coasts are depressing as hell.
maxsilver 10y ago
> Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. Speaking as a late-20's midwesterner, I don't think it's about success or "FOMO" as much as it is about lifestyle. The Midwest doesn't have real cities (except for Chicago). You really can't have an urban lifestyle in the Midwest. The cities here simply aren't developed enough to support it, and likely never will be. Someone from Indianapolis / Cincinnati / Milwaukee / etc might respond to try to argue that you can, or that they do. But realistically, they're kidding and everyone knows it -- it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle. That doesn't make those places bad, it's not a slight against people who want suburban or rural lifestyles. But if your the kind of person who wants an urban lifestyle, you probably won't be satisfied by anything Midwestern (sans Chicago) because that type of lifestyle simply doesn't exist here. This is where the "get to NYC" ambition comes from, far more than any idea of success or "FOMO", in my opinion.
- dionidium 10y ago
  it's doesn't even remotely compare to somewhere like Boston or NYC or DC or Philadelphia or San Francisco or Seattle. The benefits fall off pretty quickly after NYC, Chicago, LA, and San Francisco. As a Midwesterner who has long considered a move for exactly the reasons you mentioned, my reaction to a move to Philadelphia or Seattle or Austin (or whatever) is basically, "why bother?" I can live an "urban enough by comparison" lifestyle right here. But, that's not true of the Big Four.
  - tropo 10y ago
    For city life, Boston clearly beats San Francisco. In the USA, probably only New York can beat Boston. Prime example: two decades ago, Boston's MBTA T (subway/tram/light rail stuff) had technology that San Francisco's MUNI still can't manage. LA is a sprawl. Chicago is a war zone. Well, LA is that too. This may be city life, but it doesn't count if we're considering positive attributes!
netcan 10y ago
I think you're right about FOMO and the internet. Stuff like Meetup, Tinder or flash mob facebook groups only really work in cities, the bigger the better. OTOH, you are not totally isolated from stuff with the internet playing such a big part of culture. It's hard to argue with the economics, I guess. Cities have been drawing people in for a while now they haven't lost their pull.
ArkyBeagle 10y ago
I had a feller from HP trying to get me to relocate to SiVa in the 1980s. I dunno. I calculated that land price made Texas better, and it was for quite a while. "If you aren't in SF or NYC you are nobody..." Whew. Okay then. "Wealth stratification" is, IMO, largely an artifact of 1) increasingly abstract wealth and 2) low interest rates. This is oh so very much because of the tax code and because of Fed policy.

ArkyBeagle 10y ago

I suspect you have to examine the premise that the internet makes geography less relevant. That's okay; I live in the middle of the country (something about which I am quite stubborn ) and a significant fraction of my recent job opportunities were based on somebody moving to Cali. Follow that yellow brick road.