6 ms·

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for sev

There's some sort of Stockholm syndrome prevalent among too many Bay Area residents that compels them to accept the lower quality of life. I lived there for several years until recently, and it was a surreal experience to hear others discuss the sacrifices they were making just to have a roof over their family's head, to provide a half-decent education for their children. And these were well-payed folks at the brand-name companies! Those that took a tech job straight out of college and had never lived anywhere else seemed the worst affected. Not enough realized that they deserved more then they were getting back from the Bay Area.

cylinder 10y ago
Sounds like they aren't paying enough. If people demanded what they needed to live a decent life, they would either have to get it or the companies would wake up and relocate more quality jobs to lower COL locations.
- overcast 10y ago
  Problem is, soon as everyone starts demanding more, then the cost of everything else goes up. There is limited space, and those people making the most, will pay the most regardless. Just a never ending cycle.
  - DougN7 10y ago
    Yep, supply and demand can't be overcome. I suspect raising minimum wage must have the same effect over time as well.
  - cylinder 10y ago
    My point was that more good jobs would be relocated and distributed across the country to cheaper cities
- hackeratti 10y ago
  A lot of folks are also immigrants, who need to wait close to a decade to become citizens to be able to demand anything.
overcast 10y ago
It's interesting to hear these experiences from people that live there. Because there is certainly a romanticized version of it we see on the East Coast. Living in upstate New York, we have tons of wilderness areas, and relatively cheap living conditions. The grind out in California, just to say you live there, sounds scary.
- balabaster 10y ago
  But it's not just the grind to say you live there, it's the grind to work at (in many cases) the top tech companies in the world. The big question has to be: Is having the top tech company's name on your resume, or working on the kinds of projects that these companies are working on worth the grind of living in that area? In some cases, the answer will be yes; in others, I've gotta say I'd be hard pushed to agree - though for many people, the reasons to stay outrank the reasons to leave and that will be different for everyone. Of course, I just moved to a farm in the country so I wouldn't have to deal with all that nonsense :P
- rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
  Love that you're from upstate NY and your name is "overcast." I'm making do in Ithaca just fine. More restaurants per person than New York City, a rush hour that only lasts 10 minutes on 5 roads, and a bunch of really nice people for a place this cold and gray make Ithaca the most good enough place in the world for me. As far as big cities go, you take the great with the terrible.
  - overcast 10y ago
    Ithaca area is beautiful, I'm frequently in the Finger Lakes for hikes. Just did fifteen miles a few weekends ago at Treman and Watkins Glen. It's only a bit more than an hour from Rochester where I am, which has similar traffic, albeit the rush hour lasts a bit longer. But the food and drink scene here in the last five years here has exploded. There's been more than a few places open from ex-NYC restaurateurs.
shawndumas 10y ago
Having lived in Long Island, NY and Boca Raton, FL I gotta say... I don't think I could leave the Bay Area. The weather, the geological features, the schools, the meetups, the job opportunities... all factors. But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. My son is a programmer and nobody had a clue what he was talking about--which is fine--but they also couldn't care less to even try to understand. And also, there is a lot of prejudice that I am glad my kids will not grow up in the milieu of.
- mc32 10y ago
  Jobs and day trips yes. Schools, no. Public schools are among the worst funded and least achieving. Good schools, go to Mass (with also good day trips, but harsh winters).
  - shawndumas 10y ago
    South FL has some truly awful schools; that was my comparison.
    - yardie 10y ago
      I just moved back here. I can confirm. Now looking for an exit strategy.
      - edc117 10y ago
        Looking to get out as well, Broward/Miami area is overcrowded and pricey, not to mention poorly educated. Lucky enough to work for a company that will allow me to go remote - can anyone recommend a place on the east coast? (preferably warm climate)
        efnx 10y ago
        Blacksburg Virginia?
netcan 10y ago
It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of living. People still keep pouring in and successful cities stand out in terms of household income. Even as the internet makes geography less relevant, the competition for living in cities keeps growing.
- api 10y ago
  I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. This draws more young ambitious people, which amplifies the effect. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it. I also wonder if wealth stratification is playing a role. Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - brooklyndavs 10y ago
    "Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live." Which, in 2016, is kinda crazy. One would think with the internet being geographically close to capital wouldn't matter as much. Now it matters more than ever before it seems. It's sad that the young midwesterner (hey that was me once!) has to try to "get to NYC" for the best opportunities instead of modern communications making those opportunities available in places like Chicago, or Indy, or that person's small hometown. That person shouldn't have to choose between sharing a one bedroom apartment in Bushwick with 4 other people or remain jobless/stuck at one job in whatever middle of the country place that person resides in.
CaptSpify 10y ago
eh, it just depends on what you want. Some people's priorities are different, and their tipping points are different. I live in an "overpriced" city, but I love it here. I've also lived in CA, TN, MO, so I've seen a pretty large range of high to low cost living. I'd much rather be in a large, expensive city than a small, cheap one.
- tropo 10y ago
  Your options aren't limited to "large, expensive" and "small, cheap". There are two other options. Large, cheap: Detroit, Houston, Atlanta Small, expensive: Key West, Honolulu Depending on how you count "small", add in any of: Palo Alto, Malibu, Summerville
oldmanjay 10y ago
It's extremely unlikely that you are the keeper of the emotional state of millions of people who aren't you. There is tremendous arrogance in asserting that people who don't outwardly share your opinion are pathological, when your source is at best a few 10s of acquaintances.
- paavokoya 10y ago
  >some sort of ... among too many I don't see him asserting that millions of people are that way.. Simply that he witnessed several instances of this or that it may have been common for him to see this.
rconti 10y ago
Sounds like you did the right thing by moving somewhere that suits what you were looking for. Similarly, I did the right thing by moving out of the Northwest to the Bay Area where my quality of life is vastly better.
coroutines 10y ago
As a California resident, I have the impression I live in the technology center of the world, that I am part of the 6th largest economy in the world, and that California is a beautiful place to live - and more importantly, that once you move out of California you will not be able to move back. Also we have Feinstein so that's... that's a joy. PS: I love it how there's a desperate need for cheap housing, and developments are approved - but always priced for big-earners.
- khuey 10y ago
  That's because nowhere near enough is approved. The US population growth rate is around 1%. If San Francisco were growing no faster than the country at large it would need to build housing for about 8500 people per year. San Francisco is currently building around 3500 homes per year. And that's not even accounting for the massive economic boom going on here, or the surrounding municipalities which are largely doing worse on construction (cough cough Palo Alto).

cylinder 10y ago

Sounds like they aren't paying enough. If people demanded what they needed to live a decent life, they would either have to get it or the companies would wake up and relocate more quality jobs to lower COL locations.

overcast 10y ago
Problem is, soon as everyone starts demanding more, then the cost of everything else goes up. There is limited space, and those people making the most, will pay the most regardless. Just a never ending cycle.
- DougN7 10y ago
  Yep, supply and demand can't be overcome. I suspect raising minimum wage must have the same effect over time as well.
- cylinder 10y ago
  My point was that more good jobs would be relocated and distributed across the country to cheaper cities
hackeratti 10y ago
A lot of folks are also immigrants, who need to wait close to a decade to become citizens to be able to demand anything.

overcast 10y ago

It's interesting to hear these experiences from people that live there. Because there is certainly a romanticized version of it we see on the East Coast. Living in upstate New York, we have tons of wilderness areas, and relatively cheap living conditions. The grind out in California, just to say you live there, sounds scary.

balabaster 10y ago
But it's not just the grind to say you live there, it's the grind to work at (in many cases) the top tech companies in the world. The big question has to be: Is having the top tech company's name on your resume, or working on the kinds of projects that these companies are working on worth the grind of living in that area? In some cases, the answer will be yes; in others, I've gotta say I'd be hard pushed to agree - though for many people, the reasons to stay outrank the reasons to leave and that will be different for everyone. Of course, I just moved to a farm in the country so I wouldn't have to deal with all that nonsense :P
rm_-rf_slash 10y ago
Love that you're from upstate NY and your name is "overcast." I'm making do in Ithaca just fine. More restaurants per person than New York City, a rush hour that only lasts 10 minutes on 5 roads, and a bunch of really nice people for a place this cold and gray make Ithaca the most good enough place in the world for me. As far as big cities go, you take the great with the terrible.
- overcast 10y ago
  Ithaca area is beautiful, I'm frequently in the Finger Lakes for hikes. Just did fifteen miles a few weekends ago at Treman and Watkins Glen. It's only a bit more than an hour from Rochester where I am, which has similar traffic, albeit the rush hour lasts a bit longer. But the food and drink scene here in the last five years here has exploded. There's been more than a few places open from ex-NYC restaurateurs.

shawndumas 10y ago

Having lived in Long Island, NY and Boca Raton, FL I gotta say... I don't think I could leave the Bay Area. The weather, the geological features, the schools, the meetups, the job opportunities... all factors. But the biggest is that the people are truly interested in intellectual matters in a way that was not extant in the other places I've lived. My son is a programmer and nobody had a clue what he was talking about--which is fine--but they also couldn't care less to even try to understand. And also, there is a lot of prejudice that I am glad my kids will not grow up in the milieu of.

mc32 10y ago
Jobs and day trips yes. Schools, no. Public schools are among the worst funded and least achieving. Good schools, go to Mass (with also good day trips, but harsh winters).
- shawndumas 10y ago
  South FL has some truly awful schools; that was my comparison.
  - yardie 10y ago
    I just moved back here. I can confirm. Now looking for an exit strategy.
    - edc117 10y ago
      Looking to get out as well, Broward/Miami area is overcrowded and pricey, not to mention poorly educated. Lucky enough to work for a company that will allow me to go remote - can anyone recommend a place on the east coast? (preferably warm climate)
      - efnx 10y ago
        Blacksburg Virginia?

netcan 10y ago

It's not just SF. It's big cities around the world. They are drawing in more people than ever. Most have housing/transport issues that present as high cost of living. People still keep pouring in and successful cities stand out in terms of household income. Even as the internet makes geography less relevant, the competition for living in cities keeps growing.

api 10y ago
I've seen the "alpha cities" phenomenon explode since 2000. Where you live has become a proxy for your competence, importance, etc. I'm not convinced it's not the Internet. Google "FOMO" for a possible mechanism. The Internet makes it easy for large cities, by sheer social mass, to send out a louder cultural signal and convince everyone else they are missing something by not being there. Talk to a young midwesterner and you will hear many whose ambition is to "get to NY," with this vague sense that magic will happen when they do. This draws more young ambitious people, which amplifies the effect. Eventually if you are not in SF or NYC you are nobody. This isn't new, but I do wonder if the net is amplifying it. I also wonder if wealth stratification is playing a role. Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- brooklyndavs 10y ago
  "Opportunity clusters in cities where there is capital available, and those tend to be the big cities where the most rich people live." Which, in 2016, is kinda crazy. One would think with the internet being geographically close to capital wouldn't matter as much. Now it matters more than ever before it seems. It's sad that the young midwesterner (hey that was me once!) has to try to "get to NYC" for the best opportunities instead of modern communications making those opportunities available in places like Chicago, or Indy, or that person's small hometown. That person shouldn't have to choose between sharing a one bedroom apartment in Bushwick with 4 other people or remain jobless/stuck at one job in whatever middle of the country place that person resides in.

CaptSpify 10y ago

eh, it just depends on what you want. Some people's priorities are different, and their tipping points are different. I live in an "overpriced" city, but I love it here. I've also lived in CA, TN, MO, so I've seen a pretty large range of high to low cost living. I'd much rather be in a large, expensive city than a small, cheap one.

tropo 10y ago
Your options aren't limited to "large, expensive" and "small, cheap". There are two other options. Large, cheap: Detroit, Houston, Atlanta Small, expensive: Key West, Honolulu Depending on how you count "small", add in any of: Palo Alto, Malibu, Summerville

oldmanjay 10y ago

It's extremely unlikely that you are the keeper of the emotional state of millions of people who aren't you. There is tremendous arrogance in asserting that people who don't outwardly share your opinion are pathological, when your source is at best a few 10s of acquaintances.

paavokoya 10y ago
>some sort of ... among too many I don't see him asserting that millions of people are that way.. Simply that he witnessed several instances of this or that it may have been common for him to see this.

rconti 10y ago

Sounds like you did the right thing by moving somewhere that suits what you were looking for. Similarly, I did the right thing by moving out of the Northwest to the Bay Area where my quality of life is vastly better.

coroutines 10y ago

As a California resident, I have the impression I live in the technology center of the world, that I am part of the 6th largest economy in the world, and that California is a beautiful place to live - and more importantly, that once you move out of California you will not be able to move back. Also we have Feinstein so that's... that's a joy. PS: I love it how there's a desperate need for cheap housing, and developments are approved - but always priced for big-earners.

khuey 10y ago
That's because nowhere near enough is approved. The US population growth rate is around 1%. If San Francisco were growing no faster than the country at large it would need to build housing for about 8500 people per year. San Francisco is currently building around 3500 homes per year. And that's not even accounting for the massive economic boom going on here, or the surrounding municipalities which are largely doing worse on construction (cough cough Palo Alto).