8 ms·

Show HN: I finally released that sheet music app I keep yammering about

318 points by dangrover 17y ago

gxs 17y ago
All I can say is wow. Not only is the app super intuitive, but genuinely useful and usable. On top of that, you have a real eye for design. Great job, I wish you the best.
levesque 17y ago
That made me want to play piano again. I sucked but it looks like using it I could get better a lot faster. An ipad version would definitely be a plus. Hope you got that planned ! :)
brk 17y ago
Cool, my friend Brad told me about it this morning and I was checking it out already. Pretty impressive.
wesley 17y ago
I thought the sheet scrolling was a little disorienting (too fast), but then I saw you have a 2nd way of scrolling (note by note), much better. Great app!
ax0n 17y ago
This is quite possibly the first thing I've ever seen that makes me want an iPhone. I hope you release something like it for real computers eventually.
- madebylaw 17y ago
  I agree that this app would be awesome if it ran on real computers. It would be amazing if the app could track the user's progress/ability using MIDI and be able to show errors / redo problematic parts as well. More of an emphasis on learning and improving than just playing. I have been wanting something like this for a long time...
davepeck 17y ago
This looks extremely impressive and elegant. I'm excited to buy the iPad version -- it's a perfect fit. What format is the purchased music? The engraving is impressive, so my first guess is that it's some part PDF and some part MIDI information + metadata to match MIDI to PDF contents?
- dangrover 17y ago
  It's its own format (engraving + metadata + midi). It actually uses optimized PNGs, but the iPad version uses PDF. I'm going to do a detailed technical overview on dangrover.com when I get a chance
  - davepeck 17y ago
    Cool, I look forward to it. I suppose one obvious next question is: did you do the engraving yourself? What tools did you use? And: when can I purchase Rachmaninoff's Etudes? :-)
    - Daemmerung 17y ago
      Engraved via GNU Lilypond. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192384 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192384
astine 17y ago
Integrate a metronome and I'm sold on it.
- ovi256 17y ago
  v2 seems to get easier with all the suggestions :) Keep up the good work. Great app! Now if only I was a musician.
vaporstun 17y ago
I'm really excited about the iPad app. Imagine sitting down at a piano, putting a iPad where you would normally put sheet music, and playing away with your app auto-scrolling so the musician never has to deal with a page turn. Anyone who has ever played piano knows how amazing it would be to have that eliminated. What a great learning device that would be! Kudos and I eagerly await the iPad version!
- mrtron 17y ago
  This app really does look like it is a match for the iPad. I would consider doing this: A) Make the iphone app free or 1$, get as many users as possible B) Approach whoever owns rights to sheet music, music lessons, etc C) Allow them to sell premium content through your app and you take 50% of the profits
  - pistoriusp 17y ago
    iPad users could just double scale the iPhone app.
    - squidbot 17y ago
      Except that the app scrolls the music along one staff. You'd still just get one staff, and it would be gigantic. An iPad version that could show a whole page would be much more useful.
    - mrtron 17y ago
      I would personally pay 20$ not to do that for this particular app.
  - aaronbrethorst 17y ago
    I disagree wholeheartedly. Make money now. Don't leave it on the table. Sell 50,000 (or 100k! or 200k!) copies at $3 or $5, and then approach sheet music copyright holders. Copy the business model that Tapulous uses for Tap Tap Revenge: I should be able to download a Ben Folds-branded copy of Etude, and then a separate Beethoven app, and then a separate Liszt app. Each one should cost five bucks. And then user should be able to buy EVEN MORE CONTENT via in-app purchases. Showing content owners that you've already made a million dollars (or whatever) is much more compelling than vague hand-waving about market share and potential of an installed user base. I get really frustrated with this notion that newly released software should be free, or that monetization potential is always increased by giving something away. Who knows what might happen tomorrow? Perhaps an app significantly better than Etude will soon be released. Maybe Dan Grover will get bored of working on Etude. It's possible that sheet music copyright holders could even be dumber than music labels, and they'll be unwilling to cut a deal. There's money to be made, and the best way to make it in the short term is to sell the app.
dkokelley 17y ago
Is there any way to create or upload your own songs? It looks like a very polished app, but I'd like to be able to create my own songs, or even cooler, edit songs to see what they might sound like if played differently. Excellent job with the app. I will probably be downloading it soon.
louislouis 17y ago
Now I want to learn the piano just to play with this app.
armandososa 17y ago
You sir, are a genius. The app looks amazing, but your demo is simply perfect. How many takes?
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
- covercash 17y ago
  I think it would make an interesting addition to Garageband.
og1 17y ago
I'm going to try this out tonight. Already bought a copy via a macheist email I received.
nathanh 17y ago
Wow, nice work. I think $3 is way too cheap, especially compared to piano lessons. I'd easily pay $50 (I'm an Android user though).
- cmelbye 17y ago
  Actually, the average price of a paid app in the Android Market is lower than that of one in the App Store. Also, there is a higher number of free apps in the Android Market. Source: http://androidandme.com/2010/02/news/android-market-has-the-greatest-percentage-of-free-applications/ http://androidandme.com/2010/02/news/android-market-has-the-...
sant0sk1 17y ago
$2.99? I really hope you raise the price. This app looks exquisite and it provides immediate value. Well done! The iPad version could be a game changer...
- cmgarcia 17y ago
  It is noted that the price is introductory.
- tom_ilsinszki 17y ago
  A lot of people rate iPhone apps when deleting them, so I think a low price can really hurt your ratings. If an app is too cheap a lot of people, who aren't that interested will download it. After, however, they realize they never use it, they will delete it, and while they're at it, they might give it 2 or 3 stars. I think selling your iPhone app at a higher price could be beneficial, as mostly passionate people will buy your app, who will probably give it a 5 star. I have not released an iPhone app (yet), but this is how I think of app prices; tell me if you have other experiences.
  - Zev 17y ago
    That might be the case at $.99. But if you go up a bit (even to $1.99 or $2.99), the amount of bad reviews like that decreases pretty quickly.
    - tom_ilsinszki 17y ago
      Do you know this from experience? I'm really curious how iPhone app customers "work".
      - muhfuhkuh 17y ago
        Some patterns emerge from just taking a cross-section of the reviews to see how app customers behave at certain price levels. Here's my biased, inexperienced first blush at it: 1) Free users will destroy you in ratings, unless you are a universally known brand that is basically repackaging a pint-sized version of their popular website/application. I've seen people at the "Free" level say "I LOVE THIS APP BUT IT HAS THIS ONE SMALL PROBLEM SO I HATE IT AND GIVE IT ONE STAR YOU CAN'T PAY ME TO USE IT LULZY!" Freeloaders love free, but they will incessantly take advantage of it and are generally ungrateful, which shows in their ratings. 2) At .99 cents, you get casual and one-off users who know the value of their hard-earned dollar and will expect a relatively unreasonable amount of value because of loss-leader devs that price their complex apps that way to move up the charts. The 99-centers will conflate purchasing an item with an expectation of constant content refreshes or perfection in updates, or they will penalize. It's a false economy to try to appease these customers. Better to just cross fingers and hope to make it up in volume (or in-app purchases). 3) At 1.99-2.99, things start to get interesting. Your reviewers begin to appreciate the decisions you've made in the apps design or execution, give you actual usable (albeit terse and/or a bit angry) feedback, and ratings are a little higher overall. 4) At 3.99+, you are either a AAA game dev porting your blockbusters down to the iphone/ipod touch, or you're an indie that has built a following by selling volume pricing at first and then raising it up once you've cemented your position on the charts. Your reviewers are spectacularly verbose in their heaping of praise on you, and offer almost QA-level bug reports that you can use for your updates. I think the sweet spot for someone starting in the app store is $1.99-2.99 US, plus a "lite" version with in-app purchaseable upgrade to the full version. Perceived value with a teaser freebie. If your app is at all useful/fun, then it'll gain an audience. I think alot of people just saw the "goldmine" app store articles and thought they could make an app that was just like iFart or iShoot "but cooler" and failed miserably.
lambdom 17y ago
Download on the appstore button doesn't work for me.
Mc_Big_G 17y ago
Super cool. How long did it take you to develop the app?
threepointone 17y ago
Fan-friggin'-tastic, I especially like the attention to detail. Good job! I really suggest you kick this up to 5-10$ soon enough :) [if we can wish for ponies, I'd love for a guitar version of this too :P]
grinich 17y ago
How to change the "Carrier" text for recording a demo: http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-screencast/ http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-scre...
nirmal 17y ago
There's been some research into using a glove with haptic feedback to help you learn about which fingers should press which keys. (https://wiki.cc.gatech.edu/designcomp/index.php/Mobile_Music_Touch https://wiki.cc.gatech.edu/designcomp/index.php/Mobile_Music...) Would be awesome to see this used as a peripheral for Etude.
Poiesis 17y ago
Strike one idea off my "opportunities" list. :). Well done. How long did development take?
Entlin 17y ago
Dangrover: Do you plan to make this app work on both the iPhone and the iPad (in real-iPad-mode) in the future, or will the iPad app be a separate buy down the road?
edtromba 17y ago
Looks very pretty. Nice job. I agree with the other poster about the low price of $2.99 - that's way too low.
- bbsabelli 17y ago
  I'm pretty sure I saw in-app sheet music purchases in the video. If so, the $2.99 purchase price is irrelevant. In fact, if it has in-app purchases, it should probably be $0.99, and only because I believe the app store TOS say you can't charge if the app is free to begin with.
  - allenbrunson 17y ago
    It used to be that you couldn't have in-app purchases for free apps. At some point Apple changed their minds, and now you can.
Major_Grooves 17y ago
Nice one. Bought it now before you listen to the guys here and put it up to $50. £1.79 is a bargain! Now only if I had a piano...
tom_ilsinszki 17y ago
Were you the only one developing it? How long did it take? Love the app and the video on the webpage, by the way.
- dangrover 17y ago
  Luckily, I have a precise answer to this because I have this weird habit of tracking every minute of my time on my own projects. Here's the breakdown on Etude in hh:mm Actual iPhone app: 210:11 Song converter: 72:52 Store (UI + server side): 82:23 Building site and designing marketing materials: 44:52 I did most of the work, but I did contract some of the graphics I had trouble with to a designer, and I've taken someone awesome on board to work with music companies and other "strategic" stuff for the future.
  - yan 17y ago
    Hm this adds up to roughly 11 work weeks of straight-through work. Do you have some kind of real-time estimate and break down about which parts you developed first or in conjunction with what other features? My mind usually races a million miles an hour when starting new projects and I end up doing a little bit of everything.
  - ozataman 17y ago
    Graphics look great. Any chance you can point out who the designer was? She/he might be interested in other contracts perhaps?
  - tvon 17y ago
    OT, but how did you get into that time tracking habit and what do you use to track your time? (not) Properly tracking my time is my biggest weakness.
    - breck 17y ago
      One thing you could use is Freshbooks. I started using it for consulting and then started gradually using it for general time tracking.
bho 17y ago
does this auto scroll as you play? that would be the real killer feature! it looks great.
marcinw 17y ago
Awesome! Just purchased this without even thinking about it. Would love to see this app grow, supporting other instruments like saxophone, guitar, trumpet, etc.
gcv 17y ago
Very nice. Great initial selection, too. I grabbed the Art of the Fugue scores, and I'll give them a shot later today. I've always had a lot of trouble with reading the score and figuring out the fingering on 3+ voices in counterpoint at the same time, and let's see if your app will help. Minor nitpick: the composition labels are a little hard to keep organized. For example: "Fugue 1". It does say BWV 846 underneath in the store interface, but when scrolling around, it isn't entirely obvious that it's actually from the Well-Tempered Clavier, book 1.
swlevy 17y ago
Does the ipad have a microphone? It seems like that would open up a lot of doors for this kind of app (and obviously the iphone has one).
deleted 17y ago
[deleted]
scott_s 17y ago
I have to agree with everyone else and say this is fantastically well done, and I think you underpriced it. I think $50 is too high, but $10 is good.
daok 17y ago
I am not a pianist but loved the way your application is made. Your website is very selling. Nice video, nice design. I am impressed.
squidbot 17y ago
I like the app, and if there is indeed an iPad version, that would be fantastic. I played with it a bit this morning and posted a review. Here's the gist of what I said: Pros: - The music font looks really good, very clean and readable. - The store navigation is fast and easy to use - The music scrolling/speed controls are very handy and easy to use. - Good initial selection of music. Cons - On my 3G the update after a page turn is too slow, no matter if it's continuous or turn mode. Often half the score isn't displayed yet, and it's impossible to look ahead. This made it difficult to actually play to the score at full speed. Would it be possible to do more aggressive caching/pre-rendering to make it smoother? - You went to all the work to make a great store navigation UI, but the "My Music" UI is cover flow only. Even after downloading just a few pieces, it was clunky and slow to find anything. My Music desperately needs better navigation. - The modal dialog that pops up in the store when done downloading is really annoying, especially because navigation is locked as its preparing to display. The download icon already has a badge to show the download status, why do I need the modal reminder? It just disrupts the flow. Suggestions - A very handy feature for students would be to show different colors for the different hands in the keyboard view, and show what finger should be playing the note. - A difficulty sort in the store could be handy. Or at least a "beginner" category in the styles. - I realize I can use the volume switch, but a mute button in the app would be nice. Especially in the iPad version where I may not be able to reach the switch. Kudos on shipping, I look forward to what's to come. With some improvements and an iPad I could see this replacing a lot of sheet music, especially on the go. Break a leg!
klaut 17y ago
Great app! i bought it after just watching the demo :)
sovok 17y ago
Great app. I struggle reading notes while playing and the small keyboard is really helpful. There's also a bug in Für Elise, it ignores the repeat signs.
pchristensen 17y ago
Holy cow, that's a well-made app. You dangrover are either a passionate music lover, an excellent developer, or both. Kudos - I don't even play the piano but I'm going to buy it just so that people that make software like this are rewarded!
Readmore 17y ago
I got an email about it this morning and I picked it up. Haven't gotten a chance to try it yet but thanks for making it.
mikek 17y ago
How did you make the video for the homepage? I like the circle that represents a touch.
- covercash 17y ago
  I think SimFinger is the app used to represent touch. Atebits has a nice iPhone demo tutorial: http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-screencast/ http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-scre...
  - dangrover 17y ago
    Actually, I used my own app, PhoneFinger: http://wonderwarp.com/phonefinger http://wonderwarp.com/phonefinger
viggity 17y ago
Good Job. Just know we're all expecting to see your sales numbers 1 month, 3 months and 6 months out ;) Congrats!
devin 17y ago
You are a life saver! I was looking for something exactly like this and was surprised there was really nothing good out there. This is great. Thanks!
david927 17y ago
I love it. This is exactly what I've been looking for. But I don't own anything Apple. Is there an alternative coming, such as a web-based version? I'll pay.
- wenbert 17y ago
  I whole-heartedly agree. This can be done in flash/html5/etc + browser on a mobile device.
darrell 17y ago
One thing I didnt see in your FAQ was whether you make time shifts based on time signature: 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 or tempo marking: allegro, adagio, etc. Also - while I think the settings of .5x fast - 2x fast are user friendly I would love to see a metronome and the ability to adjust beats per minute. As someone who has done classical training and testing based on bpm I can say it makes or breaks learning a piece. I wouldn't put this on my iPhone due to legibility, but I would absolutely put it on an iPad.
dc2k08 17y ago
what restrictions have you encountered on the publishing of scores on the app. I think sheet music is more locked down then actual songs. When I used one sheet music service, it wouldn't allow me to store a digital copy of the song I wanted, I could only print it once - if my printer jammed in the process, I had to pay again. I asked the owner of the service why and he said the industry was tightly controlled. He also said he wasn't allowed to offer an unlimited download subscription for a monthly fee ala netflix etc which I suggested he should do even though he wanted to.
techiferous 17y ago
There might be an opportunity to collaborate with the startup http://www.noteflight.com http://www.noteflight.com
phlee 17y ago
Truly stunning design & idea. On a similar note, I'm planning to work on a music composition app for the iPad starting summer when I'm done with the semester. It's basically an extension of an iPhone app called Symphony, which still needs more work.
barmstrong 17y ago
Nice work man, congrats!
vessenes 17y ago
This is awesome. I'll buy it today, but I want to know when you're going to add in some simple sampling tech so that the sheet music can respond when you hit the wrong notes, or move the page ahead...
rev087 17y ago
I don't play piano, I don't have a piano, but I bought this app just to see the look-and-feel. Now I want a piano. Congratulations for an awesome job, I bet this will be one of the first iPad apps to be featured by apple once it's released.
latortuga 17y ago
You've made a pretty impressive looking app. What is your feedback like? What do your prospective users think of it? Without having used it, my first reaction is that I think it would be pretty annoying to try to play a piano while reading from an iPhone - constantly having to squint at a tiny screen and a nightmare of scrubbing to practice sections of the song are two specific complaints I can make right away. I'm interested to hear the reception of this app.
savrajsingh 17y ago
Impressive Dan! Nothing but praise for your app. Currently practicing Moonlight Sonata. ;)
bricestacey 17y ago
Is it just me or does the note play when it hits the left edge of the highlight? This seems counter intuitive.
- vdm 17y ago
  Yes, I couldn't put my finger on it but the sync seems slightly off. Great app idea.
- bricestacey 17y ago
  Yeah, the "flip page" setting definitely plays the note on the left-edge of the highlight whereas the continuous setting plays it in the middle....
WesleyJohnson 17y ago
I don't have an iPhone or iPod Touch, so I can only comment based on the video on your site - but this is ridiculously awesome. The app as well as the store and website look very professional, which is a big selling point for me when I do purchase apps. If the marketing website looks sub-par, I tend to assume the app will be as well. Perhaps not a fair assumption, but it's just the way my mind works. Being that I play the keyboard/piano a little, but can't read sheet music I have one idea: search for webpianoteacher or shawncheekeasy on YouTube and watch a lesson or two of his. He teaches piano in way that is akin to "tabs" for guitar players. This is how I learn what little bit I do know. I don't know if the audience would be big enough to spend the time adding this as an option or if it would be even be feasible, but I thought it worth a mention. Kudos on what appears to be a job well done and best of luck with the sales. If I end up getting an iPad, I'll be looking for an iPad version without question.
fmeyer 17y ago
Hey dan, I bought your app, a little bit expansive when we compare it against other music app. basically I love the Idea, but in my opinion you should improve the audio engine, I can hear some clicks and noises when much notes are played together. about the music as itself are you use internally using midi? Regards and Congratulations
muhfuhkuh 17y ago
Congratulations on already hitting the Top 100 Paid overall on the app store! I'm sure in no small part due to HNs "super-influencers" :)
wollw 17y ago
I don't have a device this works on but the demo looks very well done. I've been playing around with a similar idea but more along the lines of a front end for music in ABC notation.
petewailes 17y ago
Can you make a web-based subscription version? I know people who'd never get an iPhone/iPad (no real need), but who'd love this.
alilja 17y ago
This gives me that really excited feeling in my gut that I get when I see something cool. I've always wanted to learn how to play piano, but I was always overwhelmed by diving right in. This is why the iPad is going to be so cool. Do you have plans to do this for other instruments? I can see it being enormously popular for guitar tab, especially if you can add your own tabs to it. EDIT: Additionally, I think $3 is a perfect introductory price. If you've built a large enough following, you can leverage that to increase the price (perhaps by offering updates/large additional music libraries?) at a later date.

318 points by dangrover 17y ago

gxs 17y ago

All I can say is wow. Not only is the app super intuitive, but genuinely useful and usable. On top of that, you have a real eye for design. Great job, I wish you the best.

levesque 17y ago

That made me want to play piano again. I sucked but it looks like using it I could get better a lot faster. An ipad version would definitely be a plus. Hope you got that planned ! :)

brk 17y ago

Cool, my friend Brad told me about it this morning and I was checking it out already. Pretty impressive.

wesley 17y ago

I thought the sheet scrolling was a little disorienting (too fast), but then I saw you have a 2nd way of scrolling (note by note), much better. Great app!

ax0n 17y ago

This is quite possibly the first thing I've ever seen that makes me want an iPhone. I hope you release something like it for real computers eventually.

madebylaw 17y ago
I agree that this app would be awesome if it ran on real computers. It would be amazing if the app could track the user's progress/ability using MIDI and be able to show errors / redo problematic parts as well. More of an emphasis on learning and improving than just playing. I have been wanting something like this for a long time...

davepeck 17y ago

This looks extremely impressive and elegant. I'm excited to buy the iPad version -- it's a perfect fit. What format is the purchased music? The engraving is impressive, so my first guess is that it's some part PDF and some part MIDI information + metadata to match MIDI to PDF contents?

dangrover 17y ago
It's its own format (engraving + metadata + midi). It actually uses optimized PNGs, but the iPad version uses PDF. I'm going to do a detailed technical overview on dangrover.com when I get a chance
- davepeck 17y ago
  Cool, I look forward to it. I suppose one obvious next question is: did you do the engraving yourself? What tools did you use? And: when can I purchase Rachmaninoff's Etudes? :-)
  - Daemmerung 17y ago
    Engraved via GNU Lilypond. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192384 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1192384

astine 17y ago

Integrate a metronome and I'm sold on it.

ovi256 17y ago
v2 seems to get easier with all the suggestions :) Keep up the good work. Great app! Now if only I was a musician.

vaporstun 17y ago

I'm really excited about the iPad app. Imagine sitting down at a piano, putting a iPad where you would normally put sheet music, and playing away with your app auto-scrolling so the musician never has to deal with a page turn. Anyone who has ever played piano knows how amazing it would be to have that eliminated. What a great learning device that would be! Kudos and I eagerly await the iPad version!

mrtron 17y ago
This app really does look like it is a match for the iPad. I would consider doing this: A) Make the iphone app free or 1$, get as many users as possible B) Approach whoever owns rights to sheet music, music lessons, etc C) Allow them to sell premium content through your app and you take 50% of the profits
- pistoriusp 17y ago
  iPad users could just double scale the iPhone app.
  - squidbot 17y ago
    Except that the app scrolls the music along one staff. You'd still just get one staff, and it would be gigantic. An iPad version that could show a whole page would be much more useful.
  - mrtron 17y ago
    I would personally pay 20$ not to do that for this particular app.
- aaronbrethorst 17y ago
  I disagree wholeheartedly. Make money now. Don't leave it on the table. Sell 50,000 (or 100k! or 200k!) copies at $3 or $5, and then approach sheet music copyright holders. Copy the business model that Tapulous uses for Tap Tap Revenge: I should be able to download a Ben Folds-branded copy of Etude, and then a separate Beethoven app, and then a separate Liszt app. Each one should cost five bucks. And then user should be able to buy EVEN MORE CONTENT via in-app purchases. Showing content owners that you've already made a million dollars (or whatever) is much more compelling than vague hand-waving about market share and potential of an installed user base. I get really frustrated with this notion that newly released software should be free, or that monetization potential is always increased by giving something away. Who knows what might happen tomorrow? Perhaps an app significantly better than Etude will soon be released. Maybe Dan Grover will get bored of working on Etude. It's possible that sheet music copyright holders could even be dumber than music labels, and they'll be unwilling to cut a deal. There's money to be made, and the best way to make it in the short term is to sell the app.

dkokelley 17y ago

Is there any way to create or upload your own songs? It looks like a very polished app, but I'd like to be able to create my own songs, or even cooler, edit songs to see what they might sound like if played differently. Excellent job with the app. I will probably be downloading it soon.

louislouis 17y ago

Now I want to learn the piano just to play with this app.

armandososa 17y ago

You sir, are a genius. The app looks amazing, but your demo is simply perfect. How many takes?

deleted 17y ago

[deleted]

covercash 17y ago
I think it would make an interesting addition to Garageband.

og1 17y ago

I'm going to try this out tonight. Already bought a copy via a macheist email I received.

nathanh 17y ago

Wow, nice work. I think $3 is way too cheap, especially compared to piano lessons. I'd easily pay $50 (I'm an Android user though).

cmelbye 17y ago
Actually, the average price of a paid app in the Android Market is lower than that of one in the App Store. Also, there is a higher number of free apps in the Android Market. Source: http://androidandme.com/2010/02/news/android-market-has-the-greatest-percentage-of-free-applications/ http://androidandme.com/2010/02/news/android-market-has-the-...

sant0sk1 17y ago

$2.99? I really hope you raise the price. This app looks exquisite and it provides immediate value. Well done! The iPad version could be a game changer...

cmgarcia 17y ago
It is noted that the price is introductory.
tom_ilsinszki 17y ago
A lot of people rate iPhone apps when deleting them, so I think a low price can really hurt your ratings. If an app is too cheap a lot of people, who aren't that interested will download it. After, however, they realize they never use it, they will delete it, and while they're at it, they might give it 2 or 3 stars. I think selling your iPhone app at a higher price could be beneficial, as mostly passionate people will buy your app, who will probably give it a 5 star. I have not released an iPhone app (yet), but this is how I think of app prices; tell me if you have other experiences.
- Zev 17y ago
  That might be the case at $.99. But if you go up a bit (even to $1.99 or $2.99), the amount of bad reviews like that decreases pretty quickly.
  - tom_ilsinszki 17y ago
    Do you know this from experience? I'm really curious how iPhone app customers "work".
    - muhfuhkuh 17y ago
      Some patterns emerge from just taking a cross-section of the reviews to see how app customers behave at certain price levels. Here's my biased, inexperienced first blush at it: 1) Free users will destroy you in ratings, unless you are a universally known brand that is basically repackaging a pint-sized version of their popular website/application. I've seen people at the "Free" level say "I LOVE THIS APP BUT IT HAS THIS ONE SMALL PROBLEM SO I HATE IT AND GIVE IT ONE STAR YOU CAN'T PAY ME TO USE IT LULZY!" Freeloaders love free, but they will incessantly take advantage of it and are generally ungrateful, which shows in their ratings. 2) At .99 cents, you get casual and one-off users who know the value of their hard-earned dollar and will expect a relatively unreasonable amount of value because of loss-leader devs that price their complex apps that way to move up the charts. The 99-centers will conflate purchasing an item with an expectation of constant content refreshes or perfection in updates, or they will penalize. It's a false economy to try to appease these customers. Better to just cross fingers and hope to make it up in volume (or in-app purchases). 3) At 1.99-2.99, things start to get interesting. Your reviewers begin to appreciate the decisions you've made in the apps design or execution, give you actual usable (albeit terse and/or a bit angry) feedback, and ratings are a little higher overall. 4) At 3.99+, you are either a AAA game dev porting your blockbusters down to the iphone/ipod touch, or you're an indie that has built a following by selling volume pricing at first and then raising it up once you've cemented your position on the charts. Your reviewers are spectacularly verbose in their heaping of praise on you, and offer almost QA-level bug reports that you can use for your updates. I think the sweet spot for someone starting in the app store is $1.99-2.99 US, plus a "lite" version with in-app purchaseable upgrade to the full version. Perceived value with a teaser freebie. If your app is at all useful/fun, then it'll gain an audience. I think alot of people just saw the "goldmine" app store articles and thought they could make an app that was just like iFart or iShoot "but cooler" and failed miserably.

lambdom 17y ago

Download on the appstore button doesn't work for me.

Mc_Big_G 17y ago

Super cool. How long did it take you to develop the app?

threepointone 17y ago

Fan-friggin'-tastic, I especially like the attention to detail. Good job! I really suggest you kick this up to 5-10$ soon enough :) [if we can wish for ponies, I'd love for a guitar version of this too :P]

grinich 17y ago

How to change the "Carrier" text for recording a demo: http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-screencast/ http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-scre...

nirmal 17y ago

There's been some research into using a glove with haptic feedback to help you learn about which fingers should press which keys. (https://wiki.cc.gatech.edu/designcomp/index.php/Mobile_Music_Touch https://wiki.cc.gatech.edu/designcomp/index.php/Mobile_Music...) Would be awesome to see this used as a peripheral for Etude.

Poiesis 17y ago

Strike one idea off my "opportunities" list. :). Well done. How long did development take?

Entlin 17y ago

Dangrover: Do you plan to make this app work on both the iPhone and the iPad (in real-iPad-mode) in the future, or will the iPad app be a separate buy down the road?

edtromba 17y ago

Looks very pretty. Nice job. I agree with the other poster about the low price of $2.99 - that's way too low.

bbsabelli 17y ago
I'm pretty sure I saw in-app sheet music purchases in the video. If so, the $2.99 purchase price is irrelevant. In fact, if it has in-app purchases, it should probably be $0.99, and only because I believe the app store TOS say you can't charge if the app is free to begin with.
- allenbrunson 17y ago
  It used to be that you couldn't have in-app purchases for free apps. At some point Apple changed their minds, and now you can.

Major_Grooves 17y ago

Nice one. Bought it now before you listen to the guys here and put it up to $50. £1.79 is a bargain! Now only if I had a piano...

tom_ilsinszki 17y ago

Were you the only one developing it? How long did it take? Love the app and the video on the webpage, by the way.

dangrover 17y ago
Luckily, I have a precise answer to this because I have this weird habit of tracking every minute of my time on my own projects. Here's the breakdown on Etude in hh:mm Actual iPhone app: 210:11 Song converter: 72:52 Store (UI + server side): 82:23 Building site and designing marketing materials: 44:52 I did most of the work, but I did contract some of the graphics I had trouble with to a designer, and I've taken someone awesome on board to work with music companies and other "strategic" stuff for the future.
- yan 17y ago
  Hm this adds up to roughly 11 work weeks of straight-through work. Do you have some kind of real-time estimate and break down about which parts you developed first or in conjunction with what other features? My mind usually races a million miles an hour when starting new projects and I end up doing a little bit of everything.
- ozataman 17y ago
  Graphics look great. Any chance you can point out who the designer was? She/he might be interested in other contracts perhaps?
- tvon 17y ago
  OT, but how did you get into that time tracking habit and what do you use to track your time? (not) Properly tracking my time is my biggest weakness.
  - breck 17y ago
    One thing you could use is Freshbooks. I started using it for consulting and then started gradually using it for general time tracking.

bho 17y ago

does this auto scroll as you play? that would be the real killer feature! it looks great.

marcinw 17y ago

Awesome! Just purchased this without even thinking about it. Would love to see this app grow, supporting other instruments like saxophone, guitar, trumpet, etc.

gcv 17y ago

Very nice. Great initial selection, too. I grabbed the Art of the Fugue scores, and I'll give them a shot later today. I've always had a lot of trouble with reading the score and figuring out the fingering on 3+ voices in counterpoint at the same time, and let's see if your app will help. Minor nitpick: the composition labels are a little hard to keep organized. For example: "Fugue 1". It does say BWV 846 underneath in the store interface, but when scrolling around, it isn't entirely obvious that it's actually from the Well-Tempered Clavier, book 1.

swlevy 17y ago

Does the ipad have a microphone? It seems like that would open up a lot of doors for this kind of app (and obviously the iphone has one).

deleted 17y ago

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scott_s 17y ago

I have to agree with everyone else and say this is fantastically well done, and I think you underpriced it. I think $50 is too high, but $10 is good.

daok 17y ago

I am not a pianist but loved the way your application is made. Your website is very selling. Nice video, nice design. I am impressed.

squidbot 17y ago

I like the app, and if there is indeed an iPad version, that would be fantastic. I played with it a bit this morning and posted a review. Here's the gist of what I said: Pros: - The music font looks really good, very clean and readable. - The store navigation is fast and easy to use - The music scrolling/speed controls are very handy and easy to use. - Good initial selection of music. Cons - On my 3G the update after a page turn is too slow, no matter if it's continuous or turn mode. Often half the score isn't displayed yet, and it's impossible to look ahead. This made it difficult to actually play to the score at full speed. Would it be possible to do more aggressive caching/pre-rendering to make it smoother? - You went to all the work to make a great store navigation UI, but the "My Music" UI is cover flow only. Even after downloading just a few pieces, it was clunky and slow to find anything. My Music desperately needs better navigation. - The modal dialog that pops up in the store when done downloading is really annoying, especially because navigation is locked as its preparing to display. The download icon already has a badge to show the download status, why do I need the modal reminder? It just disrupts the flow. Suggestions - A very handy feature for students would be to show different colors for the different hands in the keyboard view, and show what finger should be playing the note. - A difficulty sort in the store could be handy. Or at least a "beginner" category in the styles. - I realize I can use the volume switch, but a mute button in the app would be nice. Especially in the iPad version where I may not be able to reach the switch. Kudos on shipping, I look forward to what's to come. With some improvements and an iPad I could see this replacing a lot of sheet music, especially on the go. Break a leg!

klaut 17y ago

Great app! i bought it after just watching the demo :)

sovok 17y ago

Great app. I struggle reading notes while playing and the small keyboard is really helpful. There's also a bug in Für Elise, it ignores the repeat signs.

pchristensen 17y ago

Holy cow, that's a well-made app. You dangrover are either a passionate music lover, an excellent developer, or both. Kudos - I don't even play the piano but I'm going to buy it just so that people that make software like this are rewarded!

Readmore 17y ago

I got an email about it this morning and I picked it up. Haven't gotten a chance to try it yet but thanks for making it.

mikek 17y ago

How did you make the video for the homepage? I like the circle that represents a touch.

covercash 17y ago
I think SimFinger is the app used to represent touch. Atebits has a nice iPhone demo tutorial: http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-screencast/ http://blog.atebits.com/2009/03/not-your-average-iphone-scre...
- dangrover 17y ago
  Actually, I used my own app, PhoneFinger: http://wonderwarp.com/phonefinger http://wonderwarp.com/phonefinger

viggity 17y ago

Good Job. Just know we're all expecting to see your sales numbers 1 month, 3 months and 6 months out ;) Congrats!

devin 17y ago

You are a life saver! I was looking for something exactly like this and was surprised there was really nothing good out there. This is great. Thanks!

david927 17y ago

I love it. This is exactly what I've been looking for. But I don't own anything Apple. Is there an alternative coming, such as a web-based version? I'll pay.

wenbert 17y ago
I whole-heartedly agree. This can be done in flash/html5/etc + browser on a mobile device.

darrell 17y ago

One thing I didnt see in your FAQ was whether you make time shifts based on time signature: 2/4, 3/4, 4/4 or tempo marking: allegro, adagio, etc. Also - while I think the settings of .5x fast - 2x fast are user friendly I would love to see a metronome and the ability to adjust beats per minute. As someone who has done classical training and testing based on bpm I can say it makes or breaks learning a piece. I wouldn't put this on my iPhone due to legibility, but I would absolutely put it on an iPad.

dc2k08 17y ago

what restrictions have you encountered on the publishing of scores on the app. I think sheet music is more locked down then actual songs. When I used one sheet music service, it wouldn't allow me to store a digital copy of the song I wanted, I could only print it once - if my printer jammed in the process, I had to pay again. I asked the owner of the service why and he said the industry was tightly controlled. He also said he wasn't allowed to offer an unlimited download subscription for a monthly fee ala netflix etc which I suggested he should do even though he wanted to.

techiferous 17y ago

There might be an opportunity to collaborate with the startup http://www.noteflight.com http://www.noteflight.com

phlee 17y ago

Truly stunning design & idea. On a similar note, I'm planning to work on a music composition app for the iPad starting summer when I'm done with the semester. It's basically an extension of an iPhone app called Symphony, which still needs more work.

barmstrong 17y ago

Nice work man, congrats!

vessenes 17y ago

This is awesome. I'll buy it today, but I want to know when you're going to add in some simple sampling tech so that the sheet music can respond when you hit the wrong notes, or move the page ahead...

rev087 17y ago

I don't play piano, I don't have a piano, but I bought this app just to see the look-and-feel. Now I want a piano. Congratulations for an awesome job, I bet this will be one of the first iPad apps to be featured by apple once it's released.

latortuga 17y ago

You've made a pretty impressive looking app. What is your feedback like? What do your prospective users think of it? Without having used it, my first reaction is that I think it would be pretty annoying to try to play a piano while reading from an iPhone - constantly having to squint at a tiny screen and a nightmare of scrubbing to practice sections of the song are two specific complaints I can make right away. I'm interested to hear the reception of this app.

savrajsingh 17y ago

Impressive Dan! Nothing but praise for your app. Currently practicing Moonlight Sonata. ;)

bricestacey 17y ago

Is it just me or does the note play when it hits the left edge of the highlight? This seems counter intuitive.

vdm 17y ago
Yes, I couldn't put my finger on it but the sync seems slightly off. Great app idea.
bricestacey 17y ago
Yeah, the "flip page" setting definitely plays the note on the left-edge of the highlight whereas the continuous setting plays it in the middle....

WesleyJohnson 17y ago

I don't have an iPhone or iPod Touch, so I can only comment based on the video on your site - but this is ridiculously awesome. The app as well as the store and website look very professional, which is a big selling point for me when I do purchase apps. If the marketing website looks sub-par, I tend to assume the app will be as well. Perhaps not a fair assumption, but it's just the way my mind works. Being that I play the keyboard/piano a little, but can't read sheet music I have one idea: search for webpianoteacher or shawncheekeasy on YouTube and watch a lesson or two of his. He teaches piano in way that is akin to "tabs" for guitar players. This is how I learn what little bit I do know. I don't know if the audience would be big enough to spend the time adding this as an option or if it would be even be feasible, but I thought it worth a mention. Kudos on what appears to be a job well done and best of luck with the sales. If I end up getting an iPad, I'll be looking for an iPad version without question.

fmeyer 17y ago

Hey dan, I bought your app, a little bit expansive when we compare it against other music app. basically I love the Idea, but in my opinion you should improve the audio engine, I can hear some clicks and noises when much notes are played together. about the music as itself are you use internally using midi? Regards and Congratulations

muhfuhkuh 17y ago

Congratulations on already hitting the Top 100 Paid overall on the app store! I'm sure in no small part due to HNs "super-influencers" :)

wollw 17y ago

I don't have a device this works on but the demo looks very well done. I've been playing around with a similar idea but more along the lines of a front end for music in ABC notation.

petewailes 17y ago

Can you make a web-based subscription version? I know people who'd never get an iPhone/iPad (no real need), but who'd love this.

alilja 17y ago

This gives me that really excited feeling in my gut that I get when I see something cool. I've always wanted to learn how to play piano, but I was always overwhelmed by diving right in. This is why the iPad is going to be so cool. Do you have plans to do this for other instruments? I can see it being enormously popular for guitar tab, especially if you can add your own tabs to it. EDIT: Additionally, I think $3 is a perfect introductory price. If you've built a large enough following, you can leverage that to increase the price (perhaps by offering updates/large additional music libraries?) at a later date.