6 ms·

Do the regulations really work anyway, in this world of Walmart and Alibaba?

by nikanj 10y ago

krastanov 10y ago
I can imagine a public or private entity that goes around and fines people that do not switch off bad equipment and fine the manufacturer (or bar them from doing business in the country).
- nikanj 10y ago
  The manufacturer is often nearly impossible to find, and they're not doing business in the country, some enterprising ebay power seller is. Baby monitors, wireless yard cameras etc are often absolute garbage from an RF point of view, and sold with brand names such as "best for baby". Good luck trying to nail that company.
  - tlrobinson 10y ago
    They can fine the seller as well, though. The ARRL complained to the FCC about Home Depot marketing commercial lighting ballasts to consumers, for example: http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-complains-to-fcc-about-the-home-depot-s-marketing-of-rf-lighting-devices http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-complains-to-fcc-about-the-hom... Not sure if anything has come of that particular case though.
  - lucaspiller 10y ago
    If you buy from AliExpress the seller usually isn't even based in your country either. I guess they could go after the postal service for delivery non-compliant equipment /s
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      Don't even think about touching my free shipping.
  - ubernostrum 10y ago
    The FCC's mandate isn't to stop everyone everywhere in the world from producing crap $5 baby monitors that spew noise on the whole spectrum. Their mandate is to keep those crap baby monitors out of the US and off US markets. Which they can do relatively easily; even if the manufacturer is hiding behind seven proxies, twelve shell companies and sourcing from two dozen countries, those baby monitors still had to get into the US at a particular port of entry, had to be sold by someone who had the ability to take payments from and arrange delivery to people in the US, etc., and that's going to point to someone the FCC can happily issue big fines to, discouraging them from continuing to import/sell the devices.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - ultramancool 10y ago
      There are literally dozens of sites you can buy cell jammers from, pay with PayPal and get it in the mail a few weeks later. The mail is really not checked for this kind of violation very often. Who are you going to sue if I order a cell jammer from a China or Hong Kong based company and your own governmental postal service delivers it to me? How about if it's just a crappy or malfunctioning device that leaks and I have no knowledge of it? It's a very difficult thing to police... almost approaching war on drugs territory.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        > Who are you going to sue if I order a cell jammer from a China or Hong Kong based company and your own governmental postal service delivers it to me? Nobody, but you might go to prison: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jamming-cell-phones-and-gps-equipment-against-law https://www.fcc.gov/general/jamming-cell-phones-and-gps-equi...
      - GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
        The fine and jail time apply to the person operating the jammer. By the way, these "dozens of sites" are all too happy to turn over purchase records to law enforcement if asked. As for "it's a very difficult thing to police", a jammer is a transmitter, one that's powerful enough to drown out the signals it's designed to jam. Turning one on is like turning on a giant flashing billboard saying "ARREST ME" over your head; it's easy to follow the jamming signal back to the source with the right equipment, which, of course, the FCC and similar agencies have plenty of. Want some examples? "FCC Proposes $29K Fine For Employer That Jammed Employee Cell Phones" https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-jammed-employee-cell-phones https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-... "Florida Man Gets $48K Fine From FCC For Using Cell Phone Jammer" http://www.techtimes.com/articles/161146/20160526/florida-man-gets-48k-fine-from-fcc-for-using-cell-phone-jammer.htm http://www.techtimes.com/articles/161146/20160526/florida-ma... "FCC Fines Operator of GPS Jammer That Affected Newark Airport GBAS" http://www.insidegnss.com/node/3676 http://www.insidegnss.com/node/3676 "Man arrested for allegedly using cell phone jammer on train" http://www.cnet.com/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-using-cell-phone-jammer-on-train/ http://www.cnet.com/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-using-ce...
- tremon 10y ago
  I can imagine a public or private entity that goes around and fines people Like the RIAA? No thank you, I'd rather keep those powers in government's hands.
- Johnny555 10y ago
  Ham Radio operators or clubs will often track down rogue radio operators or significant sources of noise, like arcing power lines and report the source to the power company or FCC.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  You do really not want a private entity creating mandatory public policies. Really, you do not. Ever. That is, if you value living in a democracy. If you'd rather have an efficient absolutist state, go on, create them.
colechristensen 10y ago
The FCC has great fun giving out 5- and 6-digit fines. They're pretty reasonable about it too. If it's an honest mistake or misunderstanding, a first time, or you're under some financial hardship no- or readuced-fines are common. If you willfully continue to violate, especially if you've been warned, huge and or daily fines are common. ... Equipment is regulated and you can't sell things that break regulations. If fining the retailer isn't effective or possible, they use the financial system against you and threaten the payment processor. All of these fines are adequate to pay for enforcement. When it comes down to it, many of the threats which might annoy the public could just as easily be threats to national security with slight tweaks to frequency. With that, there's no problem getting continued support for enforcement all the way from the top. ... Here are some warnings http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/ http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/ Here are some orders http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/rfo/ActAct.html http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/rfo/ActAct.html
- debaserab2 10y ago
  Wow... That seems reasonable and exactly the way a government agency should work.
  - nerdponx 10y ago
    It sounds like Obama put some really competent people at the FCC. Just look at what happened with net neutrality, the head of the FCC is now one of its big champions. Politics aside, it's not every day that you get to appreciate what a government agency is doing like this.
    - deelowe 10y ago
      While the net neutrality comment is valid, the FCC was a good agency well before his tenure. The amateur radio community can attest to this.
  - coldpie 10y ago
    The government is staffed by people and the vast majority of it does work well and has real flexibility on a case-by-case basis. What you hear about are the problem cases: the NSA, the FBI, abusive police, mandatory minimums. What you don't hear about is everything else.

Do the regulations really work anyway, in this world of Walmart and Alibaba?

by nikanj 10y ago

Do the regulations really work anyway, in this world of Walmart and Alibaba?

I can imagine a public or private entity that goes around and fines people that do not switch off bad equipment and fine the manufacturer (or bar them from doing business in the country).

nikanj 10y ago
The manufacturer is often nearly impossible to find, and they're not doing business in the country, some enterprising ebay power seller is. Baby monitors, wireless yard cameras etc are often absolute garbage from an RF point of view, and sold with brand names such as "best for baby". Good luck trying to nail that company.
- tlrobinson 10y ago
  They can fine the seller as well, though. The ARRL complained to the FCC about Home Depot marketing commercial lighting ballasts to consumers, for example: http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-complains-to-fcc-about-the-home-depot-s-marketing-of-rf-lighting-devices http://www.arrl.org/news/arrl-complains-to-fcc-about-the-hom... Not sure if anything has come of that particular case though.
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  If you buy from AliExpress the seller usually isn't even based in your country either. I guess they could go after the postal service for delivery non-compliant equipment /s
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Don't even think about touching my free shipping.
- ubernostrum 10y ago
  The FCC's mandate isn't to stop everyone everywhere in the world from producing crap $5 baby monitors that spew noise on the whole spectrum. Their mandate is to keep those crap baby monitors out of the US and off US markets. Which they can do relatively easily; even if the manufacturer is hiding behind seven proxies, twelve shell companies and sourcing from two dozen countries, those baby monitors still had to get into the US at a particular port of entry, had to be sold by someone who had the ability to take payments from and arrange delivery to people in the US, etc., and that's going to point to someone the FCC can happily issue big fines to, discouraging them from continuing to import/sell the devices.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - ultramancool 10y ago
    There are literally dozens of sites you can buy cell jammers from, pay with PayPal and get it in the mail a few weeks later. The mail is really not checked for this kind of violation very often. Who are you going to sue if I order a cell jammer from a China or Hong Kong based company and your own governmental postal service delivers it to me? How about if it's just a crappy or malfunctioning device that leaks and I have no knowledge of it? It's a very difficult thing to police... almost approaching war on drugs territory.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      > Who are you going to sue if I order a cell jammer from a China or Hong Kong based company and your own governmental postal service delivers it to me? Nobody, but you might go to prison: https://www.fcc.gov/general/jamming-cell-phones-and-gps-equipment-against-law https://www.fcc.gov/general/jamming-cell-phones-and-gps-equi...
    - GrumpyYoungMan 10y ago
      The fine and jail time apply to the person operating the jammer. By the way, these "dozens of sites" are all too happy to turn over purchase records to law enforcement if asked. As for "it's a very difficult thing to police", a jammer is a transmitter, one that's powerful enough to drown out the signals it's designed to jam. Turning one on is like turning on a giant flashing billboard saying "ARREST ME" over your head; it's easy to follow the jamming signal back to the source with the right equipment, which, of course, the FCC and similar agencies have plenty of. Want some examples? "FCC Proposes $29K Fine For Employer That Jammed Employee Cell Phones" https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-jammed-employee-cell-phones https://www.fcc.gov/document/fcc-proposes-29k-fine-employer-... "Florida Man Gets $48K Fine From FCC For Using Cell Phone Jammer" http://www.techtimes.com/articles/161146/20160526/florida-man-gets-48k-fine-from-fcc-for-using-cell-phone-jammer.htm http://www.techtimes.com/articles/161146/20160526/florida-ma... "FCC Fines Operator of GPS Jammer That Affected Newark Airport GBAS" http://www.insidegnss.com/node/3676 http://www.insidegnss.com/node/3676 "Man arrested for allegedly using cell phone jammer on train" http://www.cnet.com/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-using-cell-phone-jammer-on-train/ http://www.cnet.com/news/man-arrested-for-allegedly-using-ce...
tremon 10y ago
I can imagine a public or private entity that goes around and fines people Like the RIAA? No thank you, I'd rather keep those powers in government's hands.
Johnny555 10y ago
Ham Radio operators or clubs will often track down rogue radio operators or significant sources of noise, like arcing power lines and report the source to the power company or FCC.
marcosdumay 10y ago
You do really not want a private entity creating mandatory public policies. Really, you do not. Ever. That is, if you value living in a democracy. If you'd rather have an efficient absolutist state, go on, create them.

colechristensen 10y ago

The FCC has great fun giving out 5- and 6-digit fines. They're pretty reasonable about it too. If it's an honest mistake or misunderstanding, a first time, or you're under some financial hardship no- or readuced-fines are common. If you willfully continue to violate, especially if you've been warned, huge and or daily fines are common. ... Equipment is regulated and you can't sell things that break regulations. If fining the retailer isn't effective or possible, they use the financial system against you and threaten the payment processor. All of these fines are adequate to pay for enforcement. When it comes down to it, many of the threats which might annoy the public could just as easily be threats to national security with slight tweaks to frequency. With that, there's no problem getting continued support for enforcement all the way from the top. ... Here are some warnings http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/ http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/FieldNotices/ Here are some orders http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/rfo/ActAct.html http://transition.fcc.gov/eb/rfo/ActAct.html

debaserab2 10y ago
Wow... That seems reasonable and exactly the way a government agency should work.
- nerdponx 10y ago
  It sounds like Obama put some really competent people at the FCC. Just look at what happened with net neutrality, the head of the FCC is now one of its big champions. Politics aside, it's not every day that you get to appreciate what a government agency is doing like this.
  - deelowe 10y ago
    While the net neutrality comment is valid, the FCC was a good agency well before his tenure. The amateur radio community can attest to this.
- coldpie 10y ago
  The government is staffed by people and the vast majority of it does work well and has real flexibility on a case-by-case basis. What you hear about are the problem cases: the NSA, the FBI, abusive police, mandatory minimums. What you don't hear about is everything else.