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If you flipped this and asked all these people arguing that it's never ok to quit on the spot if it's fine to fire someone on the spot, do you think a single on

If you flipped this and asked all these people arguing that it's never ok to quit on the spot if it's fine to fire someone on the spot, do you think a single one would say no? Of course not. Employers wanted right-to-work laws to make it easier for them to fire workers at will; workers should feel free to return the favor and leave when and if they want.

wtbob 10y ago
> If you flipped this and asked all these people arguing that it's never ok to quit on the spot if it's fine to fire someone on the spot, do you think a single one would say no? With or without two weeks of pay? I don't think I'd fire someone without two weeks of pay in lieu of notice, although I suppose if the behaviour were terrible enough it's possible.
- fra 10y ago
  Pay isn't everything though. Consider the case of immigrants who may need to be continuously employed to remain in the united states, or the more common case of people who depend on their employer for health insurance coverage.
exabrial 10y ago
Right to work dealt with coercing workers to join unions. Not at all the same thing.
- GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
  That's certainly how it was sold to the public, but I don't believe that was the intent.
chris11 10y ago
I do think that it matters how someone is fired on the spot though. I'd say firing someone on the spot is about the same as giving them a few weeks notice if you also give them full pay for those weeks and also officially end the employment after that period. I'd rather take a few days off and get extra time to look for a new job instead of coming into work at a company who is letting me go in a few weeks.
- gk1 10y ago
  It's also usually in the company's best interest to not have you continue coming in for two weeks. Too much risk of sabotage.
caconym_ 10y ago
Yes, given that my employer can decide to dismiss me with zero warning, I don't really feel a blanket obligation to give them any more warning than I'd expect them to give me (i.e. zero). I would give warning to my current employer, because I've been here for a long time, they've treated me alright, and I have a lot of knowledge that's important to the business. But I'd see it as a courtesy, not an obligation.
draw_down 10y ago
Right, I've been having the same thought as I interview places and mentally prepare myself to (hopefully) leave my job soon. I'm quite unhappy and just want to turn in my resignation and go. I don't see the purpose it serves to stick around.
yardie 10y ago
Right-to-work is about a job being unionized. At-will is probably what you are thinking of.
- trowawee 10y ago
  You are correct. I was punching that out on my phone and should have given it a second read-through.
enraged_camel 10y ago
To me, a 2-weeks notice is a courtesy to fellow coworkers, not the employer. 2 weeks is just about enough time to wrap up projects and transition the ownership of systems and remaining work to coworkers. I have been on the receiving end of a coworker quitting without warning, and it was incredibly annoying to try to figure out the details of what they were working on to make sure nothing fell through the cracks. The professional relationships you establish today can be very important in the future. Your coworkers can give you references, help you get hired, or even do the hiring themselves one day. Therefore, it is in your best interest to not be an asshole and leave them hanging by quitting without warning.
- wrong_variable 10y ago
  Actually if you have a good relationship with your coworker and are struggling to go though his things you could just call him up after work or even during work to help you out ? There is always ways to make things work when relationships are good. Most people have little reasons to switch jobs if they are happy.
  - thegayngler 10y ago
    I've actually done this and my former co-worker wrote back and helped me out. So... Lately, I've trended towards not trying to work with people at future jobs I've already worked with as I don't like the pressure of having to live up to whatever expectations they or others have. I'd rather someone have reasonable expectations that I can actually beat and vice versa.
e12e 10y ago
Another interesting twist looking at this from Norway. Here 3 months notice (goes both ways) is the norm, 1 month the minimum. I'm honestly not sure how 2 weeks notice is meaningfully different from no notice at all. After all, you will have to be able to cover someone if they are sick (typically short time, no notice) - while presumably replacing an employee fully will take longer than two weeks anyway?
- andyjdavis 10y ago
  > I'm honestly not sure how 2 weeks notice is meaningfully different from no notice at all. Agreed. 2 weeks feels like a number so small it effectively rounds to 0. I am actually unsure of the minimum notice period here (Australia) but I have typically given 1-3 months notice unless there was a very good reason why I needed to leave sooner.

wtbob 10y ago

> If you flipped this and asked all these people arguing that it's never ok to quit on the spot if it's fine to fire someone on the spot, do you think a single one would say no? With or without two weeks of pay? I don't think I'd fire someone without two weeks of pay in lieu of notice, although I suppose if the behaviour were terrible enough it's possible.

fra 10y ago
Pay isn't everything though. Consider the case of immigrants who may need to be continuously employed to remain in the united states, or the more common case of people who depend on their employer for health insurance coverage.

exabrial 10y ago

Right to work dealt with coercing workers to join unions. Not at all the same thing.

GFK_of_xmaspast 10y ago
That's certainly how it was sold to the public, but I don't believe that was the intent.

chris11 10y ago

I do think that it matters how someone is fired on the spot though. I'd say firing someone on the spot is about the same as giving them a few weeks notice if you also give them full pay for those weeks and also officially end the employment after that period. I'd rather take a few days off and get extra time to look for a new job instead of coming into work at a company who is letting me go in a few weeks.

gk1 10y ago
It's also usually in the company's best interest to not have you continue coming in for two weeks. Too much risk of sabotage.

caconym_ 10y ago

Yes, given that my employer can decide to dismiss me with zero warning, I don't really feel a blanket obligation to give them any more warning than I'd expect them to give me (i.e. zero). I would give warning to my current employer, because I've been here for a long time, they've treated me alright, and I have a lot of knowledge that's important to the business. But I'd see it as a courtesy, not an obligation.

draw_down 10y ago

Right, I've been having the same thought as I interview places and mentally prepare myself to (hopefully) leave my job soon. I'm quite unhappy and just want to turn in my resignation and go. I don't see the purpose it serves to stick around.

yardie 10y ago

Right-to-work is about a job being unionized. At-will is probably what you are thinking of.

trowawee 10y ago
You are correct. I was punching that out on my phone and should have given it a second read-through.

enraged_camel 10y ago

To me, a 2-weeks notice is a courtesy to fellow coworkers, not the employer. 2 weeks is just about enough time to wrap up projects and transition the ownership of systems and remaining work to coworkers. I have been on the receiving end of a coworker quitting without warning, and it was incredibly annoying to try to figure out the details of what they were working on to make sure nothing fell through the cracks. The professional relationships you establish today can be very important in the future. Your coworkers can give you references, help you get hired, or even do the hiring themselves one day. Therefore, it is in your best interest to not be an asshole and leave them hanging by quitting without warning.

wrong_variable 10y ago
Actually if you have a good relationship with your coworker and are struggling to go though his things you could just call him up after work or even during work to help you out ? There is always ways to make things work when relationships are good. Most people have little reasons to switch jobs if they are happy.
- thegayngler 10y ago
  I've actually done this and my former co-worker wrote back and helped me out. So... Lately, I've trended towards not trying to work with people at future jobs I've already worked with as I don't like the pressure of having to live up to whatever expectations they or others have. I'd rather someone have reasonable expectations that I can actually beat and vice versa.

e12e 10y ago

Another interesting twist looking at this from Norway. Here 3 months notice (goes both ways) is the norm, 1 month the minimum. I'm honestly not sure how 2 weeks notice is meaningfully different from no notice at all. After all, you will have to be able to cover someone if they are sick (typically short time, no notice) - while presumably replacing an employee fully will take longer than two weeks anyway?

andyjdavis 10y ago
> I'm honestly not sure how 2 weeks notice is meaningfully different from no notice at all. Agreed. 2 weeks feels like a number so small it effectively rounds to 0. I am actually unsure of the minimum notice period here (Australia) but I have typically given 1-3 months notice unless there was a very good reason why I needed to leave sooner.