4 ms·

Yes, given the level of competence of the staff at Apple stores, it seems unlikely there could be a worthwhile coding camp at that venue. Apple would need to b

by jshevek 10y ago

Yes, given the level of competence of the staff at Apple stores, it seems unlikely there could be a worthwhile coding camp at that venue. Apple would need to bring in some much higher caliber people.

ralfd 10y ago
Urgh, it is basics of coding course for 8 year olds. What do people expect? Albert Einstein giving lessons?
- pducks32 10y ago
  I don't speak German and I already know Swift but I'd go to see that!
- jshevek 10y ago
  In my experience, 8 year olds often ask more penetrating questions than adults. If they take an interest in understanding something, they often desire to understand it on the deepest level possible for them - quickly exceeding the capacity of their parent or teacher to explain (unless the adult is a 'renaissance person'). (Edit: or a competent teacher with adequate training relevant to the subject) If the 8 year olds are really encouraged to explore and ask questions (vs 'jump through these hoops, follow instructions), the staff at apple will most likely be unable to answer their questions.
  - rimantas 10y ago
    Have you ever met 8 year olds? Care to give some examples of "more penetrating questions"?
    - duderific 10y ago
      Maybe jshevek means that they tend to ask "why" type questions which can be difficult to answer, as opposed to "how" type questions which are less difficult to answer.
      - jshevek 10y ago
        Yes. The way that children use "why", it can mean "with what motive" but also "by what mechanism" or even "which events necessarily precede that" depending on context. I would say that most adults are often simply unable to answer those questions because they just don't know. Children are naturally curious to levels which exceed the average adults ability to answer. Even educators are often inadequate to the task, if the question falls out of their areas of study. Some educators try to condition their students to focus on the limited prescribed domain of 'material they are to learn' and not ask questions that cross outside of that domain - in part to avoid acknowledging their ignorance. But I would go further and say that children often also ask perfectly reasonable questions beginning with "how" and "what if" which stump adults. You can see this very readily when the topic is anything related to the natural world, as most adults are ignorant of basic science.
    - dpc59 10y ago
      In elementary school we had philosophy classes, some got filmed for a documentary about it. It's all in french though, but I remember some very existential questions got asked (mostly once we got slightly older, I remember discussing life and death as well as suicide). Obviously we had never been taught anything about fallacies and critical thinking in general, but the simple exercise of open minded dialogue was pretty great for forming curious kids and we asked ourselves pretty deep questions.
- sensen 10y ago
  No, but I'd imagine that they would expect a competent instructor to be leading the class.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  > Urgh, it is basics of coding course for 8 year olds. What do people expect? Teaching neophytes (and, especially, neophytes who are also children) the basics of anything -- especially in ways that will engage them and not leave them both without knowledge and with less interest than when they encountered the teaching -- takes nontrivial knowledge of both the subject field and teaching methods.
- pjmlp 10y ago
  These books used to be used by children: http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.worldofspectrum.org/books.html http://www.worldofspectrum.org/books.html So if 8 year olds could grasp Basic, Z80 and 6502 Assembly, I guess adults in a computer shop should know their stuff.
xyience 10y ago
It'd be nice if they made an area available for random mall-goers who are also software engineers to come voluntarily hang out and instruct / help out random kids or teens that stop by, with potential for networking or further tutoring services for those really interested or who want to do something more interesting. Unfortunately I bet if a lot of us just camped out unofficially for a couple hours we'd be branded as child predators or something, and escorted out by mall security in any case...
- yardie 10y ago
  Which is really unfortunate. Because most adults are really, really nice. But if they express any interest in helping kids they are assumed to have a nefarious motive.
- tamana 10y ago
  These aces are called schools and community centers and they welcome volunteers
qq66 10y ago
A professional programmer isn't likely to work for whatever Apple is willing to pay to teach classes it isn't charging money for. Programmers who want to teach are probably charging a lot of money for it, or volunteering to teach through nonprofits rather than through Apple.

by jshevek 10y ago

Yes, given the level of competence of the staff at Apple stores, it seems unlikely there could be a worthwhile coding camp at that venue. Apple would need to bring in some much higher caliber people.

ralfd 10y ago

Urgh, it is basics of coding course for 8 year olds. What do people expect? Albert Einstein giving lessons?

pducks32 10y ago
I don't speak German and I already know Swift but I'd go to see that!
jshevek 10y ago
In my experience, 8 year olds often ask more penetrating questions than adults. If they take an interest in understanding something, they often desire to understand it on the deepest level possible for them - quickly exceeding the capacity of their parent or teacher to explain (unless the adult is a 'renaissance person'). (Edit: or a competent teacher with adequate training relevant to the subject) If the 8 year olds are really encouraged to explore and ask questions (vs 'jump through these hoops, follow instructions), the staff at apple will most likely be unable to answer their questions.
- rimantas 10y ago
  Have you ever met 8 year olds? Care to give some examples of "more penetrating questions"?
  - duderific 10y ago
    Maybe jshevek means that they tend to ask "why" type questions which can be difficult to answer, as opposed to "how" type questions which are less difficult to answer.
    - jshevek 10y ago
      Yes. The way that children use "why", it can mean "with what motive" but also "by what mechanism" or even "which events necessarily precede that" depending on context. I would say that most adults are often simply unable to answer those questions because they just don't know. Children are naturally curious to levels which exceed the average adults ability to answer. Even educators are often inadequate to the task, if the question falls out of their areas of study. Some educators try to condition their students to focus on the limited prescribed domain of 'material they are to learn' and not ask questions that cross outside of that domain - in part to avoid acknowledging their ignorance. But I would go further and say that children often also ask perfectly reasonable questions beginning with "how" and "what if" which stump adults. You can see this very readily when the topic is anything related to the natural world, as most adults are ignorant of basic science.
  - dpc59 10y ago
    In elementary school we had philosophy classes, some got filmed for a documentary about it. It's all in french though, but I remember some very existential questions got asked (mostly once we got slightly older, I remember discussing life and death as well as suicide). Obviously we had never been taught anything about fallacies and critical thinking in general, but the simple exercise of open minded dialogue was pretty great for forming curious kids and we asked ourselves pretty deep questions.
sensen 10y ago
No, but I'd imagine that they would expect a competent instructor to be leading the class.
dragonwriter 10y ago
> Urgh, it is basics of coding course for 8 year olds. What do people expect? Teaching neophytes (and, especially, neophytes who are also children) the basics of anything -- especially in ways that will engage them and not leave them both without knowledge and with less interest than when they encountered the teaching -- takes nontrivial knowledge of both the subject field and teaching methods.
pjmlp 10y ago
These books used to be used by children: http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.atariarchives.org/ http://www.worldofspectrum.org/books.html http://www.worldofspectrum.org/books.html So if 8 year olds could grasp Basic, Z80 and 6502 Assembly, I guess adults in a computer shop should know their stuff.

xyience 10y ago

It'd be nice if they made an area available for random mall-goers who are also software engineers to come voluntarily hang out and instruct / help out random kids or teens that stop by, with potential for networking or further tutoring services for those really interested or who want to do something more interesting. Unfortunately I bet if a lot of us just camped out unofficially for a couple hours we'd be branded as child predators or something, and escorted out by mall security in any case...

yardie 10y ago
Which is really unfortunate. Because most adults are really, really nice. But if they express any interest in helping kids they are assumed to have a nefarious motive.
tamana 10y ago
These aces are called schools and community centers and they welcome volunteers

qq66 10y ago

A professional programmer isn't likely to work for whatever Apple is willing to pay to teach classes it isn't charging money for. Programmers who want to teach are probably charging a lot of money for it, or volunteering to teach through nonprofits rather than through Apple.