6 ms·

I recently decided not to sell several expensive bits of electronics on eBay because multiple people warned me about this sort of fraud. Real pity because it's

I recently decided not to sell several expensive bits of electronics on eBay because multiple people warned me about this sort of fraud. Real pity because it's hard to know where to sell that sort of thing these days.

wvenable 10y ago
Craigslist
- lfowles 10y ago
  Even worse, "Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11847858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11847858
  - lsaferite 10y ago
    In person, cash transaction, crowded place? Pfft, then you get arrested because the cops think you're selling stolen goods.
    - jaynos 10y ago
      Lots of police stations now have "Safe Exchange" places either in the station or in the parking lot. Cameras in place and well lit.
  - dietrichepp 10y ago
    That's a nasty corner case of PA state law, combined with a defendant who failed to respond to claims.
    - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
      I read that when it was posted, and I got the I pressing the conman was pulling some trick to claim he had informed the other party, but hadn't actually done so. If that's the case then you'd need ESP to avoid being scammed.
- chiph 10y ago
  Even so, there's a good possibility of old-school fraud, with fake cashier's checks, or getting mugged. A recent trend has been for police departments to allow CL transactions to take place in their parking lots.
  - covercash 10y ago
    I do all of my Craigslist transactions in the lobby of my bank. They have cameras and a security guard, and as an added bonus I can deposit the cash right away.
- dionidium 10y ago
  Yes, but Craigslist is a huge pain in the ass. 1. Craigslist is slow. On eBay, you're done in 7 days. It can be pretty hard to get full market value on Craigslist in anywhere near that amount of time, if at all, especially if you're in a smaller city. 2. People on Craigslist are flaky. I have no idea what compels someone to email a seller with interest, schedule a time to view an item, and then just not show up, but they do it all the time. Why even bother? 3. People on Craigslist are needy. On eBay, I list and then I sell. I am selling two items on Craigslist right now. You should see my phone's messaging app. It's full of the unknown numbers of un-serious buyers asking pointless questions they'll never follow up on. 4. People on Craigslist are, well, people. That means I have to meet them somewhere. Arranging that always ends up being more difficult than a trip to the post office. I view the tradeoff like this: eBay = simple, easy, fast, but with a nonzero likelihood of total loss Craigslist = nearly guaranteed to be difficult, slow, and annoying, but with a very low chance of total loss I don't think it's an easy decision. They are definitely not interchangeable.
  - mason240 10y ago
    What's interesting is that it is the opposite for buyers. So much easier to buy of CL than eBay.
    - jfoster 10y ago
      What do you do if you discover something wrong with the item post-transaction?
      - superuser2 10y ago
        Small claims court seems nicely suited.
        srtjstjsj 10y ago
        I'm not going risk wasting a day of my life for $100 or get my life more entwined with an avowed criminal.
Pyxl101 10y ago
What if there was an EBay like action site where you couldn't just sign up, and rather someone had to "vouch" for you? When fraud starts happening, you can see who vouched them in and shut down the network. If people start selling vouches online, then you suspend both them and the person who had the bad judgment to vouch them in originally. (maybe they can keep using the site, but not vouch, etc.) The site would also collect identifying information about everyone who transacts while using it. Maybe phone number, or driver license photo. You are not allowed to have more than one account, although you can have multiple "personas" if you wish, each with their own ratings. (but creating multiple personas cannot fool site anti-abuse staff, who can all obviously see the same account behind it) Creating an account is hard. The site would employ advanced protections against account takeover. Whenever you buy and sell from someone, perhaps you can see the "7 degrees of Kevin Bacon" style interpersonal connections that link you to them via vouches. If fraud happens, it makes all of your connections look bad, and there would be an incentive for them to shun you, if they care about retaining their access to the site. When fraudsters get onto the platform, you can always trace their vouches back to the "bad apple" who showed poor judgment and began inviting the wrong certain people. Indeed, perhaps in order to retain access to the platform overtime, you have to keep getting vouches every once in a while. Big sites would not use these policies since they would invoice friction on purchases in result in lower conversion. But perhaps there is a niche somewhere for a highly trusted online auction house. I wonder how far a system like this could go in stamping out fraud online. It seems like the problem with fraudsters is that they can always keep coming back with new accounts that everyone is forced to treat with the certain default degree of trust, and then the fraudsters exploit that. If you made it difficult for each person in the world to have more than one account on the service, then anyone engaging in repeat fraud would very quickly stand out as such. (As many personas as you want, but only one account)
- derekp7 10y ago
  This sounds like something that social network sites such as FB could get into.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
linker3000 10y ago
I once sold some parts on eBay from a washing machine I broke up, including the busted motor controller board - this particular model of board was not very sophisticated, but it was difficult to source and very expensive, so I sold it 'for spares or repair', stating that the main triac had blown and taken a track with it, so the board would either need some competent rework, or be stripped for what was still working. The guy whe bought it complained that I had sold a faulty part..and ebay agreed so I had to refund him. I insisted the board was returned 'for inspection' and just binned it. Too much hassle.
- morganvachon 10y ago
  > I sold it 'for spares or repair'...complained that I had sold a faulty part..and ebay agreed so I had to refund him Unfortunately even though eBay violated their own written policy by siding with him, this is SOP for them. They have a decades-long unwritten policy of shitting all over their sellers. This became apparent when they removed sellers' ability to leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers, which led to a huge influx of scammy buyers. eBay didn't care because more buyers means more revenue, and the sellers who had built their entire business on eBay had little choice but to stick around for the shafting.

wvenable 10y ago

Craigslist

lfowles 10y ago
Even worse, "Man sued for $30K over $40 printer he sold on Craigslist" https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11847858 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=11847858
- lsaferite 10y ago
  In person, cash transaction, crowded place? Pfft, then you get arrested because the cops think you're selling stolen goods.
  - jaynos 10y ago
    Lots of police stations now have "Safe Exchange" places either in the station or in the parking lot. Cameras in place and well lit.
- dietrichepp 10y ago
  That's a nasty corner case of PA state law, combined with a defendant who failed to respond to claims.
  - ZeroGravitas 10y ago
    I read that when it was posted, and I got the I pressing the conman was pulling some trick to claim he had informed the other party, but hadn't actually done so. If that's the case then you'd need ESP to avoid being scammed.
chiph 10y ago
Even so, there's a good possibility of old-school fraud, with fake cashier's checks, or getting mugged. A recent trend has been for police departments to allow CL transactions to take place in their parking lots.
- covercash 10y ago
  I do all of my Craigslist transactions in the lobby of my bank. They have cameras and a security guard, and as an added bonus I can deposit the cash right away.
dionidium 10y ago
Yes, but Craigslist is a huge pain in the ass. 1. Craigslist is slow. On eBay, you're done in 7 days. It can be pretty hard to get full market value on Craigslist in anywhere near that amount of time, if at all, especially if you're in a smaller city. 2. People on Craigslist are flaky. I have no idea what compels someone to email a seller with interest, schedule a time to view an item, and then just not show up, but they do it all the time. Why even bother? 3. People on Craigslist are needy. On eBay, I list and then I sell. I am selling two items on Craigslist right now. You should see my phone's messaging app. It's full of the unknown numbers of un-serious buyers asking pointless questions they'll never follow up on. 4. People on Craigslist are, well, people. That means I have to meet them somewhere. Arranging that always ends up being more difficult than a trip to the post office. I view the tradeoff like this: eBay = simple, easy, fast, but with a nonzero likelihood of total loss Craigslist = nearly guaranteed to be difficult, slow, and annoying, but with a very low chance of total loss I don't think it's an easy decision. They are definitely not interchangeable.
- mason240 10y ago
  What's interesting is that it is the opposite for buyers. So much easier to buy of CL than eBay.
  - jfoster 10y ago
    What do you do if you discover something wrong with the item post-transaction?
    - superuser2 10y ago
      Small claims court seems nicely suited.
      - srtjstjsj 10y ago
        I'm not going risk wasting a day of my life for $100 or get my life more entwined with an avowed criminal.

Pyxl101 10y ago

What if there was an EBay like action site where you couldn't just sign up, and rather someone had to "vouch" for you? When fraud starts happening, you can see who vouched them in and shut down the network. If people start selling vouches online, then you suspend both them and the person who had the bad judgment to vouch them in originally. (maybe they can keep using the site, but not vouch, etc.) The site would also collect identifying information about everyone who transacts while using it. Maybe phone number, or driver license photo. You are not allowed to have more than one account, although you can have multiple "personas" if you wish, each with their own ratings. (but creating multiple personas cannot fool site anti-abuse staff, who can all obviously see the same account behind it) Creating an account is hard. The site would employ advanced protections against account takeover. Whenever you buy and sell from someone, perhaps you can see the "7 degrees of Kevin Bacon" style interpersonal connections that link you to them via vouches. If fraud happens, it makes all of your connections look bad, and there would be an incentive for them to shun you, if they care about retaining their access to the site. When fraudsters get onto the platform, you can always trace their vouches back to the "bad apple" who showed poor judgment and began inviting the wrong certain people. Indeed, perhaps in order to retain access to the platform overtime, you have to keep getting vouches every once in a while. Big sites would not use these policies since they would invoice friction on purchases in result in lower conversion. But perhaps there is a niche somewhere for a highly trusted online auction house. I wonder how far a system like this could go in stamping out fraud online. It seems like the problem with fraudsters is that they can always keep coming back with new accounts that everyone is forced to treat with the certain default degree of trust, and then the fraudsters exploit that. If you made it difficult for each person in the world to have more than one account on the service, then anyone engaging in repeat fraud would very quickly stand out as such. (As many personas as you want, but only one account)

derekp7 10y ago
This sounds like something that social network sites such as FB could get into.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

linker3000 10y ago

I once sold some parts on eBay from a washing machine I broke up, including the busted motor controller board - this particular model of board was not very sophisticated, but it was difficult to source and very expensive, so I sold it 'for spares or repair', stating that the main triac had blown and taken a track with it, so the board would either need some competent rework, or be stripped for what was still working. The guy whe bought it complained that I had sold a faulty part..and ebay agreed so I had to refund him. I insisted the board was returned 'for inspection' and just binned it. Too much hassle.

morganvachon 10y ago
> I sold it 'for spares or repair'...complained that I had sold a faulty part..and ebay agreed so I had to refund him Unfortunately even though eBay violated their own written policy by siding with him, this is SOP for them. They have a decades-long unwritten policy of shitting all over their sellers. This became apparent when they removed sellers' ability to leave negative or neutral feedback for buyers, which led to a huge influx of scammy buyers. eBay didn't care because more buyers means more revenue, and the sellers who had built their entire business on eBay had little choice but to stick around for the shafting.