5 ms·

Very much agreed. Americans have a nasty habit of valuing everything in dollar terms, especially when such things cannot be valued in such a way. What is the do

Very much agreed. Americans have a nasty habit of valuing everything in dollar terms, especially when such things cannot be valued in such a way. What is the dollar value of clean air, friendly neighbors, and social cohesion? Sure you could factor things like physical health, but that never paints a full picture.

insertnickname 10y ago
Clean air? Are you kidding me? Seems like Paris was already polluting its air before Amazon's express delivery. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-car-free-day-pollution/72736778/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-ca...
insertnickname 10y ago
Clean air? Are you kidding me? Seems like Paris was already polluting its air before Amazon's express delivery. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-car-free-day-pollution/72736778/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-ca...
djschnei 10y ago
I think the obvious objection to this kind of central planning is that the community isn't deciding that for themselves. If members of a community experience the kind of benefits from local business that you say (and I agree, I shop overwhelmingly local) why is it that they can't vote for those businesses with their own dollars? I see these kind of regressive economic policy as an obvious (and probably unintentional) attack on the poorest members of the community. Sure, I can afford to pay a little more and shop locally. It's a luxury to pay more for something because you enjoy the shopping experience more. Some people can't afford that luxury, and should be able to decide for themselves. Some people need to shop paying very close attention to the dollar value.
- pauletienney 10y ago
  Discount supermarkets are less expensive than Amazon.
  - djschnei 10y ago
    Then what's the concern? People who want to pay for the convenience of amazon will pay for it, people who value the dollar more, will shop locally in this case. Outlawing advances in convenience seems regressive, no?
    - pauletienney 10y ago
      The point is about the small shops network in Paris. They are a vital part of the city culture, the social cohesion, the charm of Paris. The city recognize the convenience of Amazon, they are not banned. They city also recognize its commercial aggressiveness and want to protect small shops from it. Not because small shops are cute but because they are an important part of the culture and economy of the city.
      - djschnei 10y ago
        Then I will point back to my original comment which you commented on. Is the importance of these shops something only the ruling class recognizes? If not, why does the protection of them need to be mandated?
        bryanlarsen 10y ago
        Tragedy of the commons. Everybody benefits from the corner shop being available, but don't use it often enough for it to stay profitable.
        djschnei 10y ago
        There is a flip side to every coin. The least well-off among us do not benefit from having the most economical options handicapped to support the less economically feasible option, regardless of the intangible communal benefits. This plays into the most common error surrounding how people view protectionism; the interests of the most obvious group is held above the harder to see ramifications of their protection. It seems ethically troublesome to me for a handful of bureaucrats to pretend they can predict every pro and con of every economic mandate for everyone else (or for the majority to decide for the minority). Decentralization of the decision making seems like the least problematic way to go about such things; and you can't get much more decentralized than each individual consumer. If the community at large recognizes the benefits of these local shops, they should put their money where their mouths are and make them profitable.
- Angostura 10y ago
  > I think the obvious objection to this kind of central planning is that the community isn't deciding that for themselves. If they vote for people who have this type of curation as part of their manifesto - sure they are.
adventured 10y ago
> What is the dollar value of clean air Paris happens to possess among the most polluted air of any major first world city. So based on your premise, the French value their diesel pollution over their clean air - they found a (very low) price to put on it. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/breathless-in-paris-as-clean-air-battle-mounts-in-french-capital http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/breathless... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/paris-smog-obscuring-eiffel-tower-threatens-diesel-car-dominance http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/paris-smog...

insertnickname 10y ago

Clean air? Are you kidding me? Seems like Paris was already polluting its air before Amazon's express delivery. http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-car-free-day-pollution/72736778/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/09/24/paris-ca...

insertnickname 10y ago

djschnei 10y ago

I think the obvious objection to this kind of central planning is that the community isn't deciding that for themselves. If members of a community experience the kind of benefits from local business that you say (and I agree, I shop overwhelmingly local) why is it that they can't vote for those businesses with their own dollars? I see these kind of regressive economic policy as an obvious (and probably unintentional) attack on the poorest members of the community. Sure, I can afford to pay a little more and shop locally. It's a luxury to pay more for something because you enjoy the shopping experience more. Some people can't afford that luxury, and should be able to decide for themselves. Some people need to shop paying very close attention to the dollar value.

pauletienney 10y ago
Discount supermarkets are less expensive than Amazon.
- djschnei 10y ago
  Then what's the concern? People who want to pay for the convenience of amazon will pay for it, people who value the dollar more, will shop locally in this case. Outlawing advances in convenience seems regressive, no?
  - pauletienney 10y ago
    The point is about the small shops network in Paris. They are a vital part of the city culture, the social cohesion, the charm of Paris. The city recognize the convenience of Amazon, they are not banned. They city also recognize its commercial aggressiveness and want to protect small shops from it. Not because small shops are cute but because they are an important part of the culture and economy of the city.
    - djschnei 10y ago
      Then I will point back to my original comment which you commented on. Is the importance of these shops something only the ruling class recognizes? If not, why does the protection of them need to be mandated?
      - bryanlarsen 10y ago
        Tragedy of the commons. Everybody benefits from the corner shop being available, but don't use it often enough for it to stay profitable.
        djschnei 10y ago
        There is a flip side to every coin. The least well-off among us do not benefit from having the most economical options handicapped to support the less economically feasible option, regardless of the intangible communal benefits. This plays into the most common error surrounding how people view protectionism; the interests of the most obvious group is held above the harder to see ramifications of their protection. It seems ethically troublesome to me for a handful of bureaucrats to pretend they can predict every pro and con of every economic mandate for everyone else (or for the majority to decide for the minority). Decentralization of the decision making seems like the least problematic way to go about such things; and you can't get much more decentralized than each individual consumer. If the community at large recognizes the benefits of these local shops, they should put their money where their mouths are and make them profitable.
Angostura 10y ago
> I think the obvious objection to this kind of central planning is that the community isn't deciding that for themselves. If they vote for people who have this type of curation as part of their manifesto - sure they are.

adventured 10y ago

> What is the dollar value of clean air Paris happens to possess among the most polluted air of any major first world city. So based on your premise, the French value their diesel pollution over their clean air - they found a (very low) price to put on it. http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/breathless-in-paris-as-clean-air-battle-mounts-in-french-capital http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-06-20/breathless... http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/paris-smog-obscuring-eiffel-tower-threatens-diesel-car-dominance http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2015-06-19/paris-smog...