11 ms·

Birth Control via App Finds Footing Under Political Radar

90 points by sethbannon 10y ago

tcj_phx 10y ago
There is a problem with birth control that the media doesn't like to talk about. While millions of women take birth control, almost all of them eventually (or immediately) hate the side effects. So most women take these awful drugs only because they are seen as the best way to prevent pregnancy. Cruising over to reddit's /r/birthcontrol now, this submission was from 16 hours ago: > So because I was losing hair after I got my Mirena IUD like a labrador in summer, my gyno decided to put me on beyaz (the top anti-androgen) to try and stop that. however, we didn't take out mirena because she "wasn't sure that was what was causing it"... so basically I'm wondering if anyone else is in that situation? [...] > > - https://www.reddit.com/r/birthcontrol/comments/4orqo1/im_on_mirena_and_beyazquestion/ https://www.reddit.com/r/birthcontrol/comments/4orqo1/im_on_... Beyaz is not an anti-androgen, it is a drug that uses the synthetic xeno-estrogen ethinyl estradiol, and the progestin drug Drospirenone. Progestins are forms of 'fake progesterone', and usually cause the body's progesterone production to decrease dramatically. Progesterone is also a brain hormone, so this is why women on birth control frequently get depressed. My girlfriend was hurt by her doctor with birth control maybe 10 years before I met her. They said the depo-provera induced bleeding would stop, eventually. She let them give her a second 3-month injection, then a third 3-month injection... Then she decided the doctors were stupid, and stopped after the 3rd injection. That would've been about a year of direct iatrogenic injury. Maybe this drug directly contributed to her later mental health struggles. She's amenorrheic right now... 3 or 4 years ago, in her late 20's, some stupid endocrinologists said that her hot flashes were because she was "going through menopause" (maybe that's not what the doctors actually said, but they didn't do anything to help resolve the complaints, so their medical advice was quite harmful, imho). I'm well aware the my girlfriend could very well pop an egg out at any time. I expect her periods will restart as soon as the underlying condition is addressed. So I've taken out my sperm production using the old heat methods. It works, I've checked. I like this site's take on the problem: > Women’s unique health concerns are seen by Wall Street as opportunities for obscene profit. The development of the ‘hormonal’ birth control (so-called) started with good intentions. Science’s understanding of the steroid system has advanced since the 1950’s, and real Scientists now know that the fake-hormones used as ‘birth control’ cannot improve women’s health. But Wall Street has FDA-approved pills to sell and investors’ dividends to pay. The drugs are reasonably-effective at suppressing women’s fertility, but are defective if women’s complete health profile is taken into consideration too. > Apologists for the hormonal birth control peddlers acknowledge that these drugs have potent side effects. The thinking seems to be “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”: while women are still maimed and killed by prescription birth control, it’s more important that the women who (probably) won’t be killed right away are able to use these drugs to keep babies away. > The most blatant of Big Drug’s ‘hormonal’ rip-offs are the so-called “emergency contraceptive” pills, where profiteers sell women 1.5-cents of active ingredients for $50. > WOMEN’S HEALTH: A Modern Tragedy, http://swindledandpimped.org/womens_health_a_modern_tragedy/ http://swindledandpimped.org/womens_health_a_modern_tragedy/ (edits: clarity, typos)
- salgernon 10y ago
  >So I've taken out my sperm production using the old heat methods. It works, I've checked. What does this mean? That you raise your .. body .. temperature to the point that potentially some sperm die? In a consultation for a vasectomy, the urologist strongly wanted that alternative forms of birth control be used for several months as sperm already in the system - unless you're naturally not producing sperm, I doubt the viability of your methods.
  - ars 10y ago
    He's right - that does work. Depending on the temperature a man can be sterile for up to 3 months. It's not completely reversible though, if used for long periods of time sperm counts drop permanently. (But not to zero.) See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception
  - tkp 10y ago
    Local heating is sufficient, but there is at least 3 month latency. Dr Roger Mieusset and volunteers tested a modified underwear with success and reversibility after 4 year use. Photos of the modified underwear + usage (NSFW/medical) can be found here : http://www.contraceptionmasculine.fr/415771934 http://www.contraceptionmasculine.fr/415771934
- guard-of-terra 10y ago
  Hundreds of millions also take those without negative side-effects.
  - Asparagirl 10y ago
    Yes, but hundreds of millions of women also bounce around between different types of hormonal birth control (variations in pill type versus Depo shots versus NuvaRing versus Mirena versus the patch, etc.) because they have miserable experiences with physical and/or emotional side effects. I know this is anecdata, but I know two different young healthy women who suffered strokes or Deep Vein Thrombosis before the age of thirty because of Yaz. (Both fully recovered, thank God, but will never be able to take hormonal pills again for life.)
cperciva 10y ago
she used the app Nurx for birth control because she felt uncomfortable visiting a doctor Frankly, this terrifies me. Getting medication which is generally accepted to be mostly safe from a pharmacy because it's cheaper and more convenient than seeing a doctor, sure. But if you're not comfortable seeing a doctor... you should probably be seeing a doctor.
- eli 10y ago
  Agreed, though I was under the impression that the reasons birth control still requires a prescription is not entirely based in science.
  - cperciva 10y ago
    If you take the politics and religion out of it (aka. you move outside of the USA) then some oral contraceptives require a prescription and some don't. Preventing pregnancy is quite easy -- screw with pretty much anything hormonal and you'll dramatically decrease the odds -- but doing that without causing unpleasant or dangerous side effects is much harder. Some formulations have had enough testing that we can say that they are generally safe; others should only be prescribed after a physician has ruled out certain risk factors. The dangerous bit in this case is that there are many formulations which fall into the category of "generally safe, but if you experience X, Y, or Z then you should see a doctor" due to rare but dangerous side effects. In such cases there's no need to consult a physician before taking the drugs; but they should not be given to a patient who is "not comfortable visiting a doctor" and would not obtain medical care if such complications arose.
    - mynameislegion 10y ago
      There are plenty of patients who are "not comfortable visiting a doctor" to get birth control, but who would certainly obtain medical care if complications arose. Some doctors require a full pelvic and breast exam for birth control prescriptions. Patients who've previously been sexually assaulted can be very uncomfortable being touched naked by anyone other than a chosen and trusted partner, but still accept the need to be treated for complications. Exam-less options are a godsend for anyone who cannot handle their first experience being with a speculum, or who need more time working through trust or intimacy issues.
ars 10y ago
"With nearly 40 percent of all pregnancies in the United States unintended, birth control is a critical public health issue." But check the actual source and: "Among women who had unintended births in the United States in 1998–2002, about 40% were using contraception" So that's very misleading reporting. Note that they tracked women for 4 years - track someone for their entire life and the numbers who had at least one child while on birth control at some point in their life will rise. Contraception just isn't effective enough to eliminate pregnancy, it can only function to reduce fertility (number of children). A typical couple using birth control through their entire life will still have one or two children - which is the average (more or less) of people in the US who choose to have children. The only function of birth control is to reduce fertility from around 10 to around 2.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  From the third paragraph of the abstract: Results—About 37% of births in the United States were unintended at the time of conception.
  - ars 10y ago
    Did you even read what I wrote? They were not [all] unintended as a result of lack of birth control. Giving everyone access to birth control will NOT stop unintended births. It's not able to do that.
    - maxerickson 10y ago
      Sure I read what you wrote. The line you quoted With nearly 40 percent of all pregnancies in the United States unintended, birth control is a critical public health issue. isn't claiming birth control is 100% effective, it's saying that there are a lot of people that might benefit from access. I posted what I posted because I didn't think it was particularly misleading for the article to state a fact that was important enough to the report to appear in the abstract. Your language But check the actual source also sort of implies that the article had misstated the fact. But it did not.
exstudent2 10y ago
This is really good news for women (and men in long term relationships with women). The amount of hoops you have to jump through to get birth control is ridiculous. Have you ever been in a planned parenthood? It's basically the DMV (with an equal level of cleanliness). Women have to make at least yearly visits to this place to get absurd and intrusive medical evaluations just to get the pill. Birth control should be over the counter, full-stop.
- bootload 10y ago
  "The amount of hoops you have to jump through to get birth control is ridiculous." What country is this? In Aus, this is a medical/GP issue and birth control pharmaceuticals are available at the chemist via a script.
  - Zak 10y ago
    Planned Parenthood is often used by women who are not regularly visiting a GP.
    - bootload 10y ago
      thanks Zak, that must be difficult.
  - srtjstjsj 10y ago
    In USA, many people do not have access to a GP.
    - bootload 10y ago
      "In USA, many people do not have access to a GP." This is such an culturally alien experience. Thanks for reminding me healthcare is unevenly distributed.
      - throwaway_exer 10y ago
        Even if you have a GP, it's smart to take someone along as an advocate to help you make more informed decisions. For example, if you think you have skin cancer and go to a dermatologist in the USA, there's a good chance the receptionist will tell you their patient list is closed and you should call back in 6 months. By then you will have died twice over from a melanoma, so it's helpful to have a second person insist on staying and forcing an appointment.
fiatmoney 10y ago
"Birth control" is ridiculously available. "Hormonal birth control" can have serious side effects and interactions, at least at the level of something like tylenol-fortified opiods or mild antidepressants, to say nothing of any net public-health effects (even after you account for "unwanted pregnancies"). Hell, testosterone, the direct analog, is Schedule III. But some people have a political interest in promoting infertility, so quasi-OTC it goes.
PretzelFisch 10y ago
How do you know this app is reputable and deliverers real medicine? I wish the author had mentioned this. It's not an issue when the app is provided by your health insurance company. But if it's not how do you know?
- smt88 10y ago
  The app doesn't deliver medicine. Regular pharmacies do. The app just makes it quicker, easier, and more private to get the prescription in the first place. From the article: "...a doctor reviews a woman’s medical information and sends a pill prescription to a local pharmacy. "'I thought it was just a setup to get money,' [a user] said. But after she answered the health questions one evening, 'a doctor actually contacted me after office hours,' and the next morning, she picked up three months’ worth of pills."
  - PretzelFisch 10y ago
    "All prescribe birth control pills, and some prescribe patches, rings and morning-after pills. Some ship contraceptives directly to women’s doors." It's the ship directly to the door part that sounds like it could allow the selling of fraudulent medicine.
    - smt88 10y ago
      Nurx is the one that ships directly to the customer, and the drugs still come from local pharmacies[1]. They're probably connecting the pharmacies to the users with some third-party, last-mile delivery service. 1. http://www.nurx.co/howitworks.html http://www.nurx.co/howitworks.html
  - 50CNT 10y ago
    That's pretty similar to how I heard on-line viagra companies do it. Except shadier and without the apps.
- maroonblazer 10y ago
  The app isn't delivering medicine. It's connecting the user with a doc who can write a prescription that's filled by a pharmacy.
adaptiveprism 10y ago
Using Clue you can also prevent pregnancy by charting you or your wife's ovulation cycle.
mamon 10y ago
On one level you are right: this will probably lead to some people harming themselves with medication obtained without proper medical advice. On another level: we should not protect people from themselves. If someone is stupid enough to do something harmfull to him/herself we should let them. Natural selection will do the rest.
- az0xff 10y ago
  This comment completely glosses over the cases of people who can be pushing the button but can be affected by circumstances that they really can't control (like a mental illness). To say that they deserve to die for the sake of "natural selection" is insensitive and frankly disturbing.

90 points by sethbannon 10y ago

There is a problem with birth control that the media doesn't like to talk about. While millions of women take birth control, almost all of them eventually (or immediately) hate the side effects. So most women take these awful drugs only because they are seen as the best way to prevent pregnancy. Cruising over to reddit's /r/birthcontrol now, this submission was from 16 hours ago: > So because I was losing hair after I got my Mirena IUD like a labrador in summer, my gyno decided to put me on beyaz (the top anti-androgen) to try and stop that. however, we didn't take out mirena because she "wasn't sure that was what was causing it"... so basically I'm wondering if anyone else is in that situation? [...] > > - https://www.reddit.com/r/birthcontrol/comments/4orqo1/im_on_mirena_and_beyazquestion/ https://www.reddit.com/r/birthcontrol/comments/4orqo1/im_on_... Beyaz is not an anti-androgen, it is a drug that uses the synthetic xeno-estrogen ethinyl estradiol, and the progestin drug Drospirenone. Progestins are forms of 'fake progesterone', and usually cause the body's progesterone production to decrease dramatically. Progesterone is also a brain hormone, so this is why women on birth control frequently get depressed. My girlfriend was hurt by her doctor with birth control maybe 10 years before I met her. They said the depo-provera induced bleeding would stop, eventually. She let them give her a second 3-month injection, then a third 3-month injection... Then she decided the doctors were stupid, and stopped after the 3rd injection. That would've been about a year of direct iatrogenic injury. Maybe this drug directly contributed to her later mental health struggles. She's amenorrheic right now... 3 or 4 years ago, in her late 20's, some stupid endocrinologists said that her hot flashes were because she was "going through menopause" (maybe that's not what the doctors actually said, but they didn't do anything to help resolve the complaints, so their medical advice was quite harmful, imho). I'm well aware the my girlfriend could very well pop an egg out at any time. I expect her periods will restart as soon as the underlying condition is addressed. So I've taken out my sperm production using the old heat methods. It works, I've checked. I like this site's take on the problem: > Women’s unique health concerns are seen by Wall Street as opportunities for obscene profit. The development of the ‘hormonal’ birth control (so-called) started with good intentions. Science’s understanding of the steroid system has advanced since the 1950’s, and real Scientists now know that the fake-hormones used as ‘birth control’ cannot improve women’s health. But Wall Street has FDA-approved pills to sell and investors’ dividends to pay. The drugs are reasonably-effective at suppressing women’s fertility, but are defective if women’s complete health profile is taken into consideration too. > Apologists for the hormonal birth control peddlers acknowledge that these drugs have potent side effects. The thinking seems to be “the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few”: while women are still maimed and killed by prescription birth control, it’s more important that the women who (probably) won’t be killed right away are able to use these drugs to keep babies away. > The most blatant of Big Drug’s ‘hormonal’ rip-offs are the so-called “emergency contraceptive” pills, where profiteers sell women 1.5-cents of active ingredients for $50. > WOMEN’S HEALTH: A Modern Tragedy, http://swindledandpimped.org/womens_health_a_modern_tragedy/ http://swindledandpimped.org/womens_health_a_modern_tragedy/ (edits: clarity, typos)

salgernon 10y ago
>So I've taken out my sperm production using the old heat methods. It works, I've checked. What does this mean? That you raise your .. body .. temperature to the point that potentially some sperm die? In a consultation for a vasectomy, the urologist strongly wanted that alternative forms of birth control be used for several months as sperm already in the system - unless you're naturally not producing sperm, I doubt the viability of your methods.
- ars 10y ago
  He's right - that does work. Depending on the temperature a man can be sterile for up to 3 months. It's not completely reversible though, if used for long periods of time sperm counts drop permanently. (But not to zero.) See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Heat-based_contraception
- tkp 10y ago
  Local heating is sufficient, but there is at least 3 month latency. Dr Roger Mieusset and volunteers tested a modified underwear with success and reversibility after 4 year use. Photos of the modified underwear + usage (NSFW/medical) can be found here : http://www.contraceptionmasculine.fr/415771934 http://www.contraceptionmasculine.fr/415771934
guard-of-terra 10y ago
Hundreds of millions also take those without negative side-effects.
- Asparagirl 10y ago
  Yes, but hundreds of millions of women also bounce around between different types of hormonal birth control (variations in pill type versus Depo shots versus NuvaRing versus Mirena versus the patch, etc.) because they have miserable experiences with physical and/or emotional side effects. I know this is anecdata, but I know two different young healthy women who suffered strokes or Deep Vein Thrombosis before the age of thirty because of Yaz. (Both fully recovered, thank God, but will never be able to take hormonal pills again for life.)

cperciva 10y ago

she used the app Nurx for birth control because she felt uncomfortable visiting a doctor Frankly, this terrifies me. Getting medication which is generally accepted to be mostly safe from a pharmacy because it's cheaper and more convenient than seeing a doctor, sure. But if you're not comfortable seeing a doctor... you should probably be seeing a doctor.

eli 10y ago
Agreed, though I was under the impression that the reasons birth control still requires a prescription is not entirely based in science.
- cperciva 10y ago
  If you take the politics and religion out of it (aka. you move outside of the USA) then some oral contraceptives require a prescription and some don't. Preventing pregnancy is quite easy -- screw with pretty much anything hormonal and you'll dramatically decrease the odds -- but doing that without causing unpleasant or dangerous side effects is much harder. Some formulations have had enough testing that we can say that they are generally safe; others should only be prescribed after a physician has ruled out certain risk factors. The dangerous bit in this case is that there are many formulations which fall into the category of "generally safe, but if you experience X, Y, or Z then you should see a doctor" due to rare but dangerous side effects. In such cases there's no need to consult a physician before taking the drugs; but they should not be given to a patient who is "not comfortable visiting a doctor" and would not obtain medical care if such complications arose.
  - mynameislegion 10y ago
    There are plenty of patients who are "not comfortable visiting a doctor" to get birth control, but who would certainly obtain medical care if complications arose. Some doctors require a full pelvic and breast exam for birth control prescriptions. Patients who've previously been sexually assaulted can be very uncomfortable being touched naked by anyone other than a chosen and trusted partner, but still accept the need to be treated for complications. Exam-less options are a godsend for anyone who cannot handle their first experience being with a speculum, or who need more time working through trust or intimacy issues.

ars 10y ago

"With nearly 40 percent of all pregnancies in the United States unintended, birth control is a critical public health issue." But check the actual source and: "Among women who had unintended births in the United States in 1998–2002, about 40% were using contraception" So that's very misleading reporting. Note that they tracked women for 4 years - track someone for their entire life and the numbers who had at least one child while on birth control at some point in their life will rise. Contraception just isn't effective enough to eliminate pregnancy, it can only function to reduce fertility (number of children). A typical couple using birth control through their entire life will still have one or two children - which is the average (more or less) of people in the US who choose to have children. The only function of birth control is to reduce fertility from around 10 to around 2.

maxerickson 10y ago
From the third paragraph of the abstract: Results—About 37% of births in the United States were unintended at the time of conception.
- ars 10y ago
  Did you even read what I wrote? They were not [all] unintended as a result of lack of birth control. Giving everyone access to birth control will NOT stop unintended births. It's not able to do that.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    Sure I read what you wrote. The line you quoted With nearly 40 percent of all pregnancies in the United States unintended, birth control is a critical public health issue. isn't claiming birth control is 100% effective, it's saying that there are a lot of people that might benefit from access. I posted what I posted because I didn't think it was particularly misleading for the article to state a fact that was important enough to the report to appear in the abstract. Your language But check the actual source also sort of implies that the article had misstated the fact. But it did not.

exstudent2 10y ago

This is really good news for women (and men in long term relationships with women). The amount of hoops you have to jump through to get birth control is ridiculous. Have you ever been in a planned parenthood? It's basically the DMV (with an equal level of cleanliness). Women have to make at least yearly visits to this place to get absurd and intrusive medical evaluations just to get the pill. Birth control should be over the counter, full-stop.

bootload 10y ago
"The amount of hoops you have to jump through to get birth control is ridiculous." What country is this? In Aus, this is a medical/GP issue and birth control pharmaceuticals are available at the chemist via a script.
- Zak 10y ago
  Planned Parenthood is often used by women who are not regularly visiting a GP.
  - bootload 10y ago
    thanks Zak, that must be difficult.
- srtjstjsj 10y ago
  In USA, many people do not have access to a GP.
  - bootload 10y ago
    "In USA, many people do not have access to a GP." This is such an culturally alien experience. Thanks for reminding me healthcare is unevenly distributed.
    - throwaway_exer 10y ago
      Even if you have a GP, it's smart to take someone along as an advocate to help you make more informed decisions. For example, if you think you have skin cancer and go to a dermatologist in the USA, there's a good chance the receptionist will tell you their patient list is closed and you should call back in 6 months. By then you will have died twice over from a melanoma, so it's helpful to have a second person insist on staying and forcing an appointment.

fiatmoney 10y ago

"Birth control" is ridiculously available. "Hormonal birth control" can have serious side effects and interactions, at least at the level of something like tylenol-fortified opiods or mild antidepressants, to say nothing of any net public-health effects (even after you account for "unwanted pregnancies"). Hell, testosterone, the direct analog, is Schedule III. But some people have a political interest in promoting infertility, so quasi-OTC it goes.

PretzelFisch 10y ago

How do you know this app is reputable and deliverers real medicine? I wish the author had mentioned this. It's not an issue when the app is provided by your health insurance company. But if it's not how do you know?

smt88 10y ago
The app doesn't deliver medicine. Regular pharmacies do. The app just makes it quicker, easier, and more private to get the prescription in the first place. From the article: "...a doctor reviews a woman’s medical information and sends a pill prescription to a local pharmacy. "'I thought it was just a setup to get money,' [a user] said. But after she answered the health questions one evening, 'a doctor actually contacted me after office hours,' and the next morning, she picked up three months’ worth of pills."
- PretzelFisch 10y ago
  "All prescribe birth control pills, and some prescribe patches, rings and morning-after pills. Some ship contraceptives directly to women’s doors." It's the ship directly to the door part that sounds like it could allow the selling of fraudulent medicine.
  - smt88 10y ago
    Nurx is the one that ships directly to the customer, and the drugs still come from local pharmacies[1]. They're probably connecting the pharmacies to the users with some third-party, last-mile delivery service. 1. http://www.nurx.co/howitworks.html http://www.nurx.co/howitworks.html
- 50CNT 10y ago
  That's pretty similar to how I heard on-line viagra companies do it. Except shadier and without the apps.
maroonblazer 10y ago
The app isn't delivering medicine. It's connecting the user with a doc who can write a prescription that's filled by a pharmacy.

adaptiveprism 10y ago

Using Clue you can also prevent pregnancy by charting you or your wife's ovulation cycle.

mamon 10y ago

On one level you are right: this will probably lead to some people harming themselves with medication obtained without proper medical advice. On another level: we should not protect people from themselves. If someone is stupid enough to do something harmfull to him/herself we should let them. Natural selection will do the rest.

az0xff 10y ago
This comment completely glosses over the cases of people who can be pushing the button but can be affected by circumstances that they really can't control (like a mental illness). To say that they deserve to die for the sake of "natural selection" is insensitive and frankly disturbing.