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I used to think the US would go metric, but more recently I'm not sure. The biggest question is what is the advantage for every day purposes? For example, a foo

I used to think the US would go metric, but more recently I'm not sure. The biggest question is what is the advantage for every day purposes? For example, a foot is a more useful measurement than the meter. Fahrenheit is more useful than Celsius (I know Celisus is not technically metric). Pounds are more useful than kilos (a best it's a wash). I don't see why grams beat ounces. I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. For science, yes, but not for everyday measurement.

barney54 10y ago
I see I have been downvoted a few times. What's your argument? Where do you disagree? I'd like to hear an alternative viewpoint.
- JorgeGT 10y ago
  I didn't downvote, but just curious: why do you say pounds are more useful than kilos?
- bajsejohannes 10y ago
  I'm guessing it's because you didn't back up your arguments. Why is a foot more useful than a meter? Why is Fahrenheit is more useful than Celsius? Why are pounds more useful than kilos? So let me kick it back to you: What's your argument? Metric and imperial are both pretty arbitrary; one strong argument for metric is just to get an international standard.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > one strong argument for metric is just to get an international standard. And that they are easy to convert among each other (simply powers of 10). And that there is a complete system of units (SI) that is based on it (what is the imperial unit of force, power, voltage, current,...? etc.).
    - thaumasiotes 10y ago
      > what is the imperial unit of force The little-known "pound". :p
      - shabble 10y ago
        The Stormtrooper, obviously
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > For example, a foot is a more useful measurement than the meter. Why? 1m is about the length of one step (heel to heel) > Fahrenheit is more useful than Celsius Why? Freezing water has 0°C, boiling water 100°C. > Pounds are more useful than kilos By a numeric coincidence (gravity of earth is nearly 10 m/s^2) 1 kg has a weight of about 10 N. This makes it really easy when going climbing to compute what mass you can put on some part of the safety chain. Generally: It is a pain in the ass to convert these non-metric units among one another. For one example 1 P̸ = 12p, 1 in = 6 P̸, 1 ft=12 in, 1 yd = 3ft, 1 mi = 1760 yd. Sounds very simple and logical to me. :-( Alone this fact is for me argument enough for metric units.
  - mattkrause 10y ago
    Do you actually need to convert units a lot in your daily life? Or compare things to the freezing/boiling point of water? For me, the major advantage of the imperial units is that they're all approximately human-scale. My foot is about a foot, my stride is about a yard, and it's surprising if I encounter weather outside 0-100F. A pint is a big drink; a cup is small one. I'm a scientist, and all this goes out the window in the lab, of course. Even there though, a lot of the useful conversions do need some arbitrary constant (e.g. density, molarity) and the SI prefixes are not incredibly useful. I've literally never heard anyone measure something in deci/decameters. In practice, we tend to pick a unit that's approximately the right size and and stick with it--tiny things might be between 0.05µm and 2,500 µm, for example.
    - mordant 10y ago
      I wholeheartedly agree. I'm an expat, and it bothers me to no end when I encounter thermostats which can only be adjusted in whole degrees Celsius - I end up being either too cold or too hot. Given its origins in Revolutionary France, the metric system is quite literally a communist plot.
      - robinhoodexe 10y ago
        So you're saying you can feel the difference between 20 and 21 degree Celsius?
- shabble 10y ago
  "I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. For science, yes, but not for everyday measurement." Two systems of measurement for essentially the exact same things just complicates matters. Suggesting that your system is better (I'm (perhaps wrongly) assuming that it's because you learned one first) and more 'instinctive' or 'natural' is pretty poor argument. Are there any truly objective reasons you can argue one system (in your case, imperial/customary) is actually better? Yes, some units have slightly nicer divisible quantities, but that's easily outweighed by the crazy inconsistencies between different units of a type (stones, pounds and ounces, for example). Or inches, feet, yards & miles. There's no obvious relation whatsoever, and while there maybe be historical justifications for their values, they're not exactly arithmetically convenient. Or the horrible mess that happens when you get into fractional quantities. How much is 17/32" + 1/4"? Sure, I can work it out, but just adding some decimals together is a darn sight easier[1]. That can be done in either system, but imperial/customary definitely seems to favour it IME. Ultimately, I think people are going to have a preference for whichever they learn first, and intuitively approximate. For that reason, making a distinction between 'those fancy-pants science units' and 'good ol' everyday patriotic inches' strikes me as a foolish compromise that benefits neither. I could probably object to other things in your original post as well, but maybe I'm just projecting my childhood biases the other way. [1] for me, anyway. I've grown up with a bastard hybrid knowledge of mostly metric/SI, but enough exposure to imperial that I can intuit some, but not all of the conversions. Temperature is probably my weakest. I know from memory that 37oC ~98F, and that conversion is 5/8x + 32 or something along those lines. But to see '250F' and set my oven correctly, I have to think a bit. Or to guess if a temperature is below freezing or not. Having a hobbyist/armchair interest in machining & woodworking, the mental mode-switching when reading/watching videos by Americans vs everyone else is jarring.
- vmarsy 10y ago
  When it comes to grocery shopping the US system is bad. Take for example ground beef: There's a few brands, both with the same labels: grass fed, no hormones .etc etc. What's the most important then? The price tag. But each unit of ground beef isn't always the same size: 1.08 lbs, or 1.23 lbs ,etc. Fortunately vendors are required to put a price PER unit of weight. In metric system countries it would be : Brand A is 7€/kg, Brand B is 5€/kg , (and for the sake of the argument, Brand C is 0.65c per gram, but usually it's always per kg.) Which one is the cheapest? Easy answer. Brand B < Brand C < Brand A In the US? One is $5/lbs , the other is 35c per Oz. Which one is the cheapest? In this base 10 world, It's a bit tricky to make base 16 conversion by head Same with liquids: fl oz, gal, etc. with the Metric system? €/cl , €/l , they could even write €/ml, multiplying/dividing by 10, 100, or 1000 doesn't' requires a calculator. Even if you only have the price per unit, for the same brand: 1 bottle of 2L is $3, 6 bottle of 500ml is $3, here buying the 6 pack is better. (Usually the bigger the bottle, the cheaper per unit of volume, but not always, especially in the US) In the US? 1 gallon is $3, but a 6 pack of 16 fl oz is $3, which one is the cheapest? 6*16 = 96. but 1 gallon is 128 floz, so the 6 pack is 75% of a gallon, so the gallon is cheaper here
deleted 10y ago
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the_mitsuhiko 10y ago
As someone raised metric I never understood how one unit was more "useful" than the other. The fact of the matter is that you can calculate and reason with metric which is tricky in imperial units. Celsius also makes more sense to me as someone living in the alps ;)
- mattkrause 10y ago
  I recently moved from a Fahrenheit-using country to one where the weather is typically given in Celsius. The Fahrenheit temperatures map onto reasonably discrete "comfort ranges" for me. If it's going to be in the 50s, I might want a light jacket. I don't need one if it's in the 60s, and probably want short sleeves in the 70s (definitely in the 80s). In contrast, if it's going to be in the "teens" in Celcius, the weather might require anything from a jacket to short sleeves.
  - lucb1e 10y ago
    Might have something to do with your moving from one to the other. Living in the Netherlands I know perfectly well what to wear when it's 11 or 18 degrees. To me it sounds like you're saying dollars are hard to use since you were used to yen. With dollars everything is 100 times closer together.
  - TillE 10y ago
    > if it's going to be in the "teens" in Celcius So don't think like that. Consider five degree increments instead. After a little bit of experience it's quite simple.
    - mattkrause 10y ago
      Obviously, this is not one of the insoluble problems in my life (and the weather has been completely bonkers this year anyway) :-)
  - to3m 10y ago
    Yes... and so when it's going to be in the "teens" in centigrade, they tell you how many damn degrees they think it's going to be, rather than dicking you about by giving you a needlessly large range. I bet the weather forecasters in America never tell you the temperature is going to be "positive, and in 2 digits". Whatever next? Difficulty knowing how far away things are because miles are so large compared to km?
programLyrique 10y ago
You're saying that foot is more useful than meter and so on but you don't explain why. As an European who has always used the metric system and never encountered the customary system, I am perfectly fine with the metric system. For instance, I am puzzled by the affirmation about Fahrenheit. Cooking very often uses water and Celsius having a scale based on that. I'm not sure that having a scale with the highest temperature based on the temperature of horse blood is much more relevant in every day life... And so on for the other measurements... Usefulness is not a relevant question for measurements, because we can always find real life objects to make these more visible (for instance, one long step is for me about 1 meter).
- xyzzy4 10y ago
  > You're saying that foot is more useful than meter and so on but you don't explain why. To divide a foot, you can divide by 12, 6, 3, 4, or 2 and get round numbers in inches. Round numbers can be easier to deal with than fractions or decimals.
  - lucb1e 10y ago
    Another non-american here. That doesn't help much. How often do you try to describe something a sixth of the length of your foot? I'm trying to think of an example where it matters either way, but the only thing I can come up with is that there is only one measurement in metric distance: the meter. A centimeter is a hundredth of that, a milli- is a thousandth. In the American system I have to know the relation between inches, feet, miles and probably more (isn't yard also part of it? I don't even know).
    - xyzzy4 10y ago
      > How often do you try to describe something a sixth of the length of your foot? It happens all the time. There's a very popular piece of wood known as a 'two by four' which is 2 inches by 4 inches.
      - Jedd 10y ago
Schweigi 10y ago
I guess it mostly depends on how you grew up. Coming from the metric system I prefer it a lot because it's much more consistent and easier to convert between units (e.g. mg->g->kg). Even after moving to California I'm still confused by the variety of different units. For example if you look at recipes there are cups, ounces, pounds, teaspoons and none of them is easy to convert. In Switzerland I used to fly glider planes. Unlike motored airplanes glider planes use the metric system. So heights are measured in meters and speed in km/h. It helps a lot to calculate how far or fast the plane will go compared to feet and miles.
Ezhik 10y ago
Still don't really get the Celsius thing, perhaps because I just grew up with it. It seems to make sense to me just fine. <0C = cold, 10C = cool, 20C = warm, >30C = hot.
dominotw 10y ago
>I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. There is a value in saving lives by adopting a universal standard. I remember watching an air crash investigation episode about this confusion causing a fatal crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider
wolf550e 10y ago
The huge advantage of the metric system is not in its different choice of 1 unit of length, 1 unit of mass, etc. but in the relationships between all units. This is very useful to everyone, even to non-scientists. Illustration: https://i.imgur.com/iDOzAa5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iDOzAa5.jpg Actually, unit conversion being complicated, makes a lot of problems complicated to calculate and so makes science appear difficult which only makes people not want to do science. Using the American customary system of measurements is like using Roman numerals - everything is possible, but harder, so science and engineering progress slower.
- anotherevan 10y ago
  > Using the American customary system of measurements is like using Roman numerals - everything is possible, but harder And there's the money quote.
nickserv 10y ago
As someone that has used both systems, I have to say metric is much easier to use and more precise. Typical daily usage includes cooking, ex "if I need 60g of sugar for 2l of water, how much sugar for half a liter?" Is really easy (60/4=15g), versus "if I need 2oz for 1 quart of water, how much sugar for 8floz?" Is annoying and frankly rather ridiculous: first you have to know that 1qrt=32floz (metric is of course always multiples of 10), then you get a result ½ ounce, that you can't convert to anything else and you're now dealing with fractions...
Oletros 10y ago
> I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. But this is only because you have learned it first. Here we have learned just metric units and we don't see the value of imperial for everyday purposes
kbenson 10y ago
That depends entirely on your use case. If your use is easy division that may include denominators of multiples of 3, or 4, then the imperial measurements might be more useful. If your use case is being able to easily scale numbers and keep a handle in your mind of how they relate, then metric is more useful. How many miles is 154,631 feet? How many kilometers is 724,642 meters? How many inches in one sixth of a foot? How many centimeters in one sixth of a meter? (in case you don't think there's much gain in the imperial unit, try using 16 and 2/3 centimeters in your calculations,and it quickly becomes more cumbersome)

barney54 10y ago

I see I have been downvoted a few times. What's your argument? Where do you disagree? I'd like to hear an alternative viewpoint.

JorgeGT 10y ago
I didn't downvote, but just curious: why do you say pounds are more useful than kilos?
bajsejohannes 10y ago
I'm guessing it's because you didn't back up your arguments. Why is a foot more useful than a meter? Why is Fahrenheit is more useful than Celsius? Why are pounds more useful than kilos? So let me kick it back to you: What's your argument? Metric and imperial are both pretty arbitrary; one strong argument for metric is just to get an international standard.
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > one strong argument for metric is just to get an international standard. And that they are easy to convert among each other (simply powers of 10). And that there is a complete system of units (SI) that is based on it (what is the imperial unit of force, power, voltage, current,...? etc.).
  - thaumasiotes 10y ago
    > what is the imperial unit of force The little-known "pound". :p
    - shabble 10y ago
      The Stormtrooper, obviously
wolfgke 10y ago
> For example, a foot is a more useful measurement than the meter. Why? 1m is about the length of one step (heel to heel) > Fahrenheit is more useful than Celsius Why? Freezing water has 0°C, boiling water 100°C. > Pounds are more useful than kilos By a numeric coincidence (gravity of earth is nearly 10 m/s^2) 1 kg has a weight of about 10 N. This makes it really easy when going climbing to compute what mass you can put on some part of the safety chain. Generally: It is a pain in the ass to convert these non-metric units among one another. For one example 1 P̸ = 12p, 1 in = 6 P̸, 1 ft=12 in, 1 yd = 3ft, 1 mi = 1760 yd. Sounds very simple and logical to me. :-( Alone this fact is for me argument enough for metric units.
- mattkrause 10y ago
  Do you actually need to convert units a lot in your daily life? Or compare things to the freezing/boiling point of water? For me, the major advantage of the imperial units is that they're all approximately human-scale. My foot is about a foot, my stride is about a yard, and it's surprising if I encounter weather outside 0-100F. A pint is a big drink; a cup is small one. I'm a scientist, and all this goes out the window in the lab, of course. Even there though, a lot of the useful conversions do need some arbitrary constant (e.g. density, molarity) and the SI prefixes are not incredibly useful. I've literally never heard anyone measure something in deci/decameters. In practice, we tend to pick a unit that's approximately the right size and and stick with it--tiny things might be between 0.05µm and 2,500 µm, for example.
  - mordant 10y ago
    I wholeheartedly agree. I'm an expat, and it bothers me to no end when I encounter thermostats which can only be adjusted in whole degrees Celsius - I end up being either too cold or too hot. Given its origins in Revolutionary France, the metric system is quite literally a communist plot.
    - robinhoodexe 10y ago
      So you're saying you can feel the difference between 20 and 21 degree Celsius?
shabble 10y ago
"I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. For science, yes, but not for everyday measurement." Two systems of measurement for essentially the exact same things just complicates matters. Suggesting that your system is better (I'm (perhaps wrongly) assuming that it's because you learned one first) and more 'instinctive' or 'natural' is pretty poor argument. Are there any truly objective reasons you can argue one system (in your case, imperial/customary) is actually better? Yes, some units have slightly nicer divisible quantities, but that's easily outweighed by the crazy inconsistencies between different units of a type (stones, pounds and ounces, for example). Or inches, feet, yards & miles. There's no obvious relation whatsoever, and while there maybe be historical justifications for their values, they're not exactly arithmetically convenient. Or the horrible mess that happens when you get into fractional quantities. How much is 17/32" + 1/4"? Sure, I can work it out, but just adding some decimals together is a darn sight easier[1]. That can be done in either system, but imperial/customary definitely seems to favour it IME. Ultimately, I think people are going to have a preference for whichever they learn first, and intuitively approximate. For that reason, making a distinction between 'those fancy-pants science units' and 'good ol' everyday patriotic inches' strikes me as a foolish compromise that benefits neither. I could probably object to other things in your original post as well, but maybe I'm just projecting my childhood biases the other way. [1] for me, anyway. I've grown up with a bastard hybrid knowledge of mostly metric/SI, but enough exposure to imperial that I can intuit some, but not all of the conversions. Temperature is probably my weakest. I know from memory that 37oC ~98F, and that conversion is 5/8x + 32 or something along those lines. But to see '250F' and set my oven correctly, I have to think a bit. Or to guess if a temperature is below freezing or not. Having a hobbyist/armchair interest in machining & woodworking, the mental mode-switching when reading/watching videos by Americans vs everyone else is jarring.
vmarsy 10y ago
When it comes to grocery shopping the US system is bad. Take for example ground beef: There's a few brands, both with the same labels: grass fed, no hormones .etc etc. What's the most important then? The price tag. But each unit of ground beef isn't always the same size: 1.08 lbs, or 1.23 lbs ,etc. Fortunately vendors are required to put a price PER unit of weight. In metric system countries it would be : Brand A is 7€/kg, Brand B is 5€/kg , (and for the sake of the argument, Brand C is 0.65c per gram, but usually it's always per kg.) Which one is the cheapest? Easy answer. Brand B < Brand C < Brand A In the US? One is $5/lbs , the other is 35c per Oz. Which one is the cheapest? In this base 10 world, It's a bit tricky to make base 16 conversion by head Same with liquids: fl oz, gal, etc. with the Metric system? €/cl , €/l , they could even write €/ml, multiplying/dividing by 10, 100, or 1000 doesn't' requires a calculator. Even if you only have the price per unit, for the same brand: 1 bottle of 2L is $3, 6 bottle of 500ml is $3, here buying the 6 pack is better. (Usually the bigger the bottle, the cheaper per unit of volume, but not always, especially in the US) In the US? 1 gallon is $3, but a 6 pack of 16 fl oz is $3, which one is the cheapest? 6*16 = 96. but 1 gallon is 128 floz, so the 6 pack is 75% of a gallon, so the gallon is cheaper here

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

the_mitsuhiko 10y ago

As someone raised metric I never understood how one unit was more "useful" than the other. The fact of the matter is that you can calculate and reason with metric which is tricky in imperial units. Celsius also makes more sense to me as someone living in the alps ;)

mattkrause 10y ago
I recently moved from a Fahrenheit-using country to one where the weather is typically given in Celsius. The Fahrenheit temperatures map onto reasonably discrete "comfort ranges" for me. If it's going to be in the 50s, I might want a light jacket. I don't need one if it's in the 60s, and probably want short sleeves in the 70s (definitely in the 80s). In contrast, if it's going to be in the "teens" in Celcius, the weather might require anything from a jacket to short sleeves.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  Might have something to do with your moving from one to the other. Living in the Netherlands I know perfectly well what to wear when it's 11 or 18 degrees. To me it sounds like you're saying dollars are hard to use since you were used to yen. With dollars everything is 100 times closer together.
- TillE 10y ago
  > if it's going to be in the "teens" in Celcius So don't think like that. Consider five degree increments instead. After a little bit of experience it's quite simple.
  - mattkrause 10y ago
    Obviously, this is not one of the insoluble problems in my life (and the weather has been completely bonkers this year anyway) :-)
- to3m 10y ago
  Yes... and so when it's going to be in the "teens" in centigrade, they tell you how many damn degrees they think it's going to be, rather than dicking you about by giving you a needlessly large range. I bet the weather forecasters in America never tell you the temperature is going to be "positive, and in 2 digits". Whatever next? Difficulty knowing how far away things are because miles are so large compared to km?

programLyrique 10y ago

You're saying that foot is more useful than meter and so on but you don't explain why. As an European who has always used the metric system and never encountered the customary system, I am perfectly fine with the metric system. For instance, I am puzzled by the affirmation about Fahrenheit. Cooking very often uses water and Celsius having a scale based on that. I'm not sure that having a scale with the highest temperature based on the temperature of horse blood is much more relevant in every day life... And so on for the other measurements... Usefulness is not a relevant question for measurements, because we can always find real life objects to make these more visible (for instance, one long step is for me about 1 meter).

xyzzy4 10y ago
> You're saying that foot is more useful than meter and so on but you don't explain why. To divide a foot, you can divide by 12, 6, 3, 4, or 2 and get round numbers in inches. Round numbers can be easier to deal with than fractions or decimals.
- lucb1e 10y ago
  Another non-american here. That doesn't help much. How often do you try to describe something a sixth of the length of your foot? I'm trying to think of an example where it matters either way, but the only thing I can come up with is that there is only one measurement in metric distance: the meter. A centimeter is a hundredth of that, a milli- is a thousandth. In the American system I have to know the relation between inches, feet, miles and probably more (isn't yard also part of it? I don't even know).
  - xyzzy4 10y ago
    > How often do you try to describe something a sixth of the length of your foot? It happens all the time. There's a very popular piece of wood known as a 'two by four' which is 2 inches by 4 inches.
    - Jedd 10y ago

Schweigi 10y ago

I guess it mostly depends on how you grew up. Coming from the metric system I prefer it a lot because it's much more consistent and easier to convert between units (e.g. mg->g->kg). Even after moving to California I'm still confused by the variety of different units. For example if you look at recipes there are cups, ounces, pounds, teaspoons and none of them is easy to convert. In Switzerland I used to fly glider planes. Unlike motored airplanes glider planes use the metric system. So heights are measured in meters and speed in km/h. It helps a lot to calculate how far or fast the plane will go compared to feet and miles.

Ezhik 10y ago

Still don't really get the Celsius thing, perhaps because I just grew up with it. It seems to make sense to me just fine. <0C = cold, 10C = cool, 20C = warm, >30C = hot.

dominotw 10y ago

>I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. There is a value in saving lives by adopting a universal standard. I remember watching an air crash investigation episode about this confusion causing a fatal crash https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gimli_Glider

wolf550e 10y ago

The huge advantage of the metric system is not in its different choice of 1 unit of length, 1 unit of mass, etc. but in the relationships between all units. This is very useful to everyone, even to non-scientists. Illustration: https://i.imgur.com/iDOzAa5.jpg https://i.imgur.com/iDOzAa5.jpg Actually, unit conversion being complicated, makes a lot of problems complicated to calculate and so makes science appear difficult which only makes people not want to do science. Using the American customary system of measurements is like using Roman numerals - everything is possible, but harder, so science and engineering progress slower.

anotherevan 10y ago
> Using the American customary system of measurements is like using Roman numerals - everything is possible, but harder And there's the money quote.

nickserv 10y ago

As someone that has used both systems, I have to say metric is much easier to use and more precise. Typical daily usage includes cooking, ex "if I need 60g of sugar for 2l of water, how much sugar for half a liter?" Is really easy (60/4=15g), versus "if I need 2oz for 1 quart of water, how much sugar for 8floz?" Is annoying and frankly rather ridiculous: first you have to know that 1qrt=32floz (metric is of course always multiples of 10), then you get a result ½ ounce, that you can't convert to anything else and you're now dealing with fractions...

Oletros 10y ago

> I just don't see the value of metric for everyday purposes. But this is only because you have learned it first. Here we have learned just metric units and we don't see the value of imperial for everyday purposes

kbenson 10y ago

That depends entirely on your use case. If your use is easy division that may include denominators of multiples of 3, or 4, then the imperial measurements might be more useful. If your use case is being able to easily scale numbers and keep a handle in your mind of how they relate, then metric is more useful. How many miles is 154,631 feet? How many kilometers is 724,642 meters? How many inches in one sixth of a foot? How many centimeters in one sixth of a meter? (in case you don't think there's much gain in the imperial unit, try using 16 and 2/3 centimeters in your calculations,and it quickly becomes more cumbersome)