5 ms·

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian

>It's very easy to forget how free we are by comparison to those persecuted in occupied territories. Pretty insulated thinking there.. Try traveling to Indian reservations or gentrified urban areas.. Or perhaps research Japanese internment camps in WW2. Or hell even look up Guantanamo Bay today. Superpowers flexing their muscle on a "threatening few" is extremely common.

adventured 10y ago
What do those examples have to do with the parent not understanding the Chinese Government's cowardice and fear? I don't regard it as insulated thinking at all. It makes perfect sense to be bewildered by such a disgusting display of cowardice and irrational fear by China. Someone on a public forum says: X nation is doing a bad thing; one of the responses inevitably is: yeah but the US did a bad thing. There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums.
- munin 10y ago
  > There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums. there kind of is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
  - DblPlusUngood 10y ago
    Here are even more names for this fallacy: tu quoque and whataboutism.
    - lostlogin 10y ago
      Thanks. "Ad hominem once removed" was as close as I could get.
  - jerichois 10y ago
    While this might apply in some cases, I feel for most it's about putting things in perspective.
- jerichois 10y ago
  To me, OP put things in perspective. For example, do we attribute the US governments use of eminent domain to gentrify urban areas as "American Government's cowardice and fear?" By putting things in perspective, we realize the "Other Nation" maybe isn't doing it for nefarious means, but rather just operating like any other Nation.
bmmayer1 10y ago
Ah, the old 'Tu quoque' fallacy. Even so, let's examine some of these claims a bit: > Indian reservations Yes, the state of the modern Indian reservation is tragic, but doesn't that have to more to do with too much government assistance[1][2] rather than government stepping in to destroy? > gentrified urban areas You're not trying to suggest that living in a neighborhood that's getting nicer and more expensive is somehow akin to the government coming in and demolishing the whole city block are you? > Japanese internment camps in WW2 Well taken point, and a black mark on the history of the US government to be sure. But there's much to be said about the state of exception in wartime[3] and it seems unfair to compare measures taken during unprecedented war with China's actions during unprecedented peace. > Guantanamo Bay Yeah, this is a shame. But hardly seems comparable, considering the Chinese are literally putting thousands of families out of homes and seeking to destroy an entire religious minority, and at best Guantanamo Bay is an infringement on the civil liberties of a relative handful of individuals. Not that it's right, but it certainly is at the top of a long slippery slope on which China is currently racing to the bottom. andy_ppp's comment is apt...we have problems, but we still are far more free than almost anywhere else. And it isn't insulated thinking at all; Americans are objectively freer than the Chinese by almost any metric.[4] [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/13/5-ways-the-government-keeps-native-americans-in-poverty/#2f3107356cc6 http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/13/5-ways-the-g... [2]https://mises.org/library/native-american-reservations-%E2%80%9Csocialist-archipelago%E2%80%9D https://mises.org/library/native-american-reservations-%E2%8... [3]http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=23630 http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=23630 [4]http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking
- roywiggins 10y ago
  Re: governments stepping in to destroy, how do you think American Indians ended up where they are today? It was hardly voluntary. And on top of that, the treaty rights they nominally have are often not enforced. Mineral rights are held "in trust" by the government and are not managed for the Indians' benefit.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

adventured 10y ago

What do those examples have to do with the parent not understanding the Chinese Government's cowardice and fear? I don't regard it as insulated thinking at all. It makes perfect sense to be bewildered by such a disgusting display of cowardice and irrational fear by China. Someone on a public forum says: X nation is doing a bad thing; one of the responses inevitably is: yeah but the US did a bad thing. There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums.

munin 10y ago
> There should be a 'law' named for that attempted topic distraction in public forums. there kind of is: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/And_you_are_lynching_Negroes
- DblPlusUngood 10y ago
  Here are even more names for this fallacy: tu quoque and whataboutism.
  - lostlogin 10y ago
    Thanks. "Ad hominem once removed" was as close as I could get.
- jerichois 10y ago
  While this might apply in some cases, I feel for most it's about putting things in perspective.
jerichois 10y ago
To me, OP put things in perspective. For example, do we attribute the US governments use of eminent domain to gentrify urban areas as "American Government's cowardice and fear?" By putting things in perspective, we realize the "Other Nation" maybe isn't doing it for nefarious means, but rather just operating like any other Nation.

bmmayer1 10y ago

Ah, the old 'Tu quoque' fallacy. Even so, let's examine some of these claims a bit: > Indian reservations Yes, the state of the modern Indian reservation is tragic, but doesn't that have to more to do with too much government assistance[1][2] rather than government stepping in to destroy? > gentrified urban areas You're not trying to suggest that living in a neighborhood that's getting nicer and more expensive is somehow akin to the government coming in and demolishing the whole city block are you? > Japanese internment camps in WW2 Well taken point, and a black mark on the history of the US government to be sure. But there's much to be said about the state of exception in wartime[3] and it seems unfair to compare measures taken during unprecedented war with China's actions during unprecedented peace. > Guantanamo Bay Yeah, this is a shame. But hardly seems comparable, considering the Chinese are literally putting thousands of families out of homes and seeking to destroy an entire religious minority, and at best Guantanamo Bay is an infringement on the civil liberties of a relative handful of individuals. Not that it's right, but it certainly is at the top of a long slippery slope on which China is currently racing to the bottom. andy_ppp's comment is apt...we have problems, but we still are far more free than almost anywhere else. And it isn't insulated thinking at all; Americans are objectively freer than the Chinese by almost any metric.[4] [1]http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/13/5-ways-the-government-keeps-native-americans-in-poverty/#2f3107356cc6 http://www.forbes.com/sites/realspin/2014/03/13/5-ways-the-g... [2]https://mises.org/library/native-american-reservations-%E2%80%9Csocialist-archipelago%E2%80%9D https://mises.org/library/native-american-reservations-%E2%8... [3]http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=23630 http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=23630 [4]http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking http://www.heritage.org/index/ranking

roywiggins 10y ago
Re: governments stepping in to destroy, how do you think American Indians ended up where they are today? It was hardly voluntary. And on top of that, the treaty rights they nominally have are often not enforced. Mineral rights are held "in trust" by the government and are not managed for the Indians' benefit.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]