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From the complaint: "Space Data started offering commercial wireless services in 2004 from a constellation of altitude controlled balloons which drift in the s

by miket 10y ago

From the complaint: "Space Data started offering commercial wireless services in 2004 from a constellation of altitude controlled balloons which drift in the stratosphere. Since that time, it has extended the technology to service the U.S. Armed Services with deployments on four continents. " "Examples of Space Data confidential information and trade secrets include, but are not limited to, accumulation of weather data, launch methods, launch timing, balloon types, altitude regulation, business methods, business models, financial information, technology solutions, and unique knowledge and interpretation of weather data, wherein this knowledge and interpretation is not available in public, which for example includes knowledge of the winds between 60,000 and 100,000 foot altitudes. "

Dylan16807 10y ago
> knowledge of the winds between 60,000 and 100,000 foot altitudes Haha, well I just started taking this complaint a lot less seriously.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Why? That knowledge for instance is crucial to decisions of how much fuel to take on board of intercontinental aircraft.
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    The complaint is that google took some kind of confidential or trade secret knowledge about these winds. It can't be the directions and speeds, because those are constantly changing, and this was years ago. It's not methods of calculation, or they would have said so, like they said about the other points. So the only thing left under 'knowledge' is the mere fact that winds exist there. Of course winds exist there. They didn't discover that. Google's not even calculating most of the wind data, they apparently get that from NOAA.
gabble 10y ago
Also from the complaint something that really stood out me: "34. In a March 21, 2014 TED interview with journalist Charlie Rose regarding Project Loon, Google co-founder Larry Page claimed that Google had been thinking of the idea of launching balloons for “five years or more.” During the course of the interview, Mr. Rose asked “But are you at the mercy of the wind?” to which Mr. Page responded: “Yeah, but it turns out, that we did some weather simulations which probably hadn’t really been done before, and if you control the altitude of the balloons, which you can do by pumping air into them or other ways, you can actually control roughly where they go, and so we think we can build a worldwide mesh of these balloons over the whole planet.” 35. As set forth above, however, Space Data had reduced this theory and simulations to actual practice and had conducted over 15,000 flights and accrued over 100,000 flight hours of such constellations in order to understand the wind patterns by the time Larry Page and other individuals from Google had visited Space Data. This concept of “if you control the altitude you can actually control roughly where they go” was something Space Data demonstrated in February 2008 to Larry Page personally with over a dozen balloons in the sky which were actively flying at Space Data’s network control center." The comment from Page seems a little disingenuous if the statement from Space Data is true, of course it's a complaint so everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt but if it's true that seems pretty damning.
- icebraining 10y ago
  if we cannot manage to guide our balloon, we must, at least, try to keep it in favorable aerial currents. In proportion as we ascend, the latter become much more uniform and flow more constantly in one direction. They are no longer disturbed by the mountains and valleys that traverse the surface of the globe, and these, you know, are the chief cause of the variations of the wind and the inequality of their force. Therefore, these zones having been once determined, the balloon will merely have to be placed in the currents best adapted to its destination." Jules Verne, Five Weeks in a Balloon (1863)
  - themartorana 10y ago
    Thank you for this. People's thinking on idea ownership and exclusivity is maddening. Thousands - millions, even - of ideas got us here, and they want exclusivity on the 1,000,001st.

by miket 10y ago

Dylan16807 10y ago

> knowledge of the winds between 60,000 and 100,000 foot altitudes Haha, well I just started taking this complaint a lot less seriously.

jacquesm 10y ago
Why? That knowledge for instance is crucial to decisions of how much fuel to take on board of intercontinental aircraft.
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  The complaint is that google took some kind of confidential or trade secret knowledge about these winds. It can't be the directions and speeds, because those are constantly changing, and this was years ago. It's not methods of calculation, or they would have said so, like they said about the other points. So the only thing left under 'knowledge' is the mere fact that winds exist there. Of course winds exist there. They didn't discover that. Google's not even calculating most of the wind data, they apparently get that from NOAA.

gabble 10y ago

Also from the complaint something that really stood out me: "34. In a March 21, 2014 TED interview with journalist Charlie Rose regarding Project Loon, Google co-founder Larry Page claimed that Google had been thinking of the idea of launching balloons for “five years or more.” During the course of the interview, Mr. Rose asked “But are you at the mercy of the wind?” to which Mr. Page responded: “Yeah, but it turns out, that we did some weather simulations which probably hadn’t really been done before, and if you control the altitude of the balloons, which you can do by pumping air into them or other ways, you can actually control roughly where they go, and so we think we can build a worldwide mesh of these balloons over the whole planet.” 35. As set forth above, however, Space Data had reduced this theory and simulations to actual practice and had conducted over 15,000 flights and accrued over 100,000 flight hours of such constellations in order to understand the wind patterns by the time Larry Page and other individuals from Google had visited Space Data. This concept of “if you control the altitude you can actually control roughly where they go” was something Space Data demonstrated in February 2008 to Larry Page personally with over a dozen balloons in the sky which were actively flying at Space Data’s network control center." The comment from Page seems a little disingenuous if the statement from Space Data is true, of course it's a complaint so everything needs to be taken with a grain of salt but if it's true that seems pretty damning.

icebraining 10y ago
if we cannot manage to guide our balloon, we must, at least, try to keep it in favorable aerial currents. In proportion as we ascend, the latter become much more uniform and flow more constantly in one direction. They are no longer disturbed by the mountains and valleys that traverse the surface of the globe, and these, you know, are the chief cause of the variations of the wind and the inequality of their force. Therefore, these zones having been once determined, the balloon will merely have to be placed in the currents best adapted to its destination." Jules Verne, Five Weeks in a Balloon (1863)
- themartorana 10y ago
  Thank you for this. People's thinking on idea ownership and exclusivity is maddening. Thousands - millions, even - of ideas got us here, and they want exclusivity on the 1,000,001st.