6 ms·

I recommend not having children if you're only keeping them as long as it serves your self interest.

jes 10y ago
I recommend thinking carefully about what is to your long-term self-interest, and then acting accordingly. That would include not creating children if you and your partner are not certain that you want them and will do what is required to raise them in a peaceful, loving and rational home.
- terrywilcox 10y ago
  I can't explain why you're wrong about kids and self-interest. It's something you have to experience for yourself. You may have an epiphany about the 50th time you yell "watch out for that car". I swear she _wants_ me to have a heart attack.
  - jes 10y ago
    I do have some experience with parenting. I have three children, in their 20s and 30s at this time. All are doing very well, and we are all on good terms with each other. With respect, I think our different views may be the result of a different understanding of what it means to truly be self-interested. In my view, it's nothing like being a greedy bastard who only cares about sacrificing other people to himself, being a manipulator, being miserly, etc.
    - falsestprophet 10y ago
      "Good terms" is setting a pretty low bar for family.
      - nostrebored 10y ago
        Is it, if the GP instilled the same values in his children? I hope that my children will hold me accountable for my actions and vice versa.
        jes 10y ago
        Thank you for understanding this point. I do not want my children to love me because I'm their father, or because I took care of them (along with their mother) when they were growing up. I see it as my job, if I want a relationship with my children, to be bringing value to them in the here and now. Sure, we have good memories of the past, but good memories are not (in my view) a sufficient basis for an ongoing relationship. Even worse would be a sense of obligation on the part of my children towards me, simply because I'm their father. You summarized it well: "I hope my children will hold me accountable for my actions, and vice-versa."
        omarchowdhury 10y ago
        What was your relationship like with your parents?
- gohrt 10y ago
  What if the children are the ones disturbing the peace, not loving, and bering irrational? And how can you be "loving" and "rational" at the same time?
  - jes 10y ago
    I think you've asked some good questions. So, I think children should be disturbing the peace, and perhaps frequently. I see children as being engaged in absolutely critical work, which is trying to build up a set of abstractions, or concepts, that will allow them to succeed in the world as adults. To do this, I think they have to do lots and lots of experiments. It may look like horsing around to us, but I don't think it is. As regards being loving, I'd say a couple of things. First, I think children have a natural sense for justice. A child that is treated justly will, over time, learn to treat others justly. Too often, though, I'm not sure that the parents have an entirely firm grip on what justice is, though, and so they might act unjustly towards their children, and then be angry when the child doesn't act in a loving manner towards them. As regards being irrational, I'd say that that is also sort of the expected-state for someone who is still developing. I don't think all parts of the brain (e.g., the pre-frontal cortex) is fully developed until about age 24 or so. I would also say, again, that one would want to look at what the parents are doing. Maybe they are treating the child in an irrational way, which I think is going to cause them to receive a response that, in their different frame of reference, seems "irrational." I'm not sure I understand the dichotomy between being loving and rational at the same time. In my view, a rational person is a loving person, rather than an emotionless character like Mr. Spock from Star Trek. Hope this helps.
    - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
      What happens when a child is psychotic or has a chronic health condition that causes them to struggle to communicate or 'give back' to their family in a way the family can understand? What happens if the child becomes suddenly ill, or is accused ofa crime that will take a lot of money to resolve? I feel that family is hard to view add a business transaction because there are these edge cases.

jes 10y ago

I recommend thinking carefully about what is to your long-term self-interest, and then acting accordingly. That would include not creating children if you and your partner are not certain that you want them and will do what is required to raise them in a peaceful, loving and rational home.

terrywilcox 10y ago
I can't explain why you're wrong about kids and self-interest. It's something you have to experience for yourself. You may have an epiphany about the 50th time you yell "watch out for that car". I swear she _wants_ me to have a heart attack.
- jes 10y ago
  I do have some experience with parenting. I have three children, in their 20s and 30s at this time. All are doing very well, and we are all on good terms with each other. With respect, I think our different views may be the result of a different understanding of what it means to truly be self-interested. In my view, it's nothing like being a greedy bastard who only cares about sacrificing other people to himself, being a manipulator, being miserly, etc.
  - falsestprophet 10y ago
    "Good terms" is setting a pretty low bar for family.
    - nostrebored 10y ago
      Is it, if the GP instilled the same values in his children? I hope that my children will hold me accountable for my actions and vice versa.
      - jes 10y ago
        Thank you for understanding this point. I do not want my children to love me because I'm their father, or because I took care of them (along with their mother) when they were growing up. I see it as my job, if I want a relationship with my children, to be bringing value to them in the here and now. Sure, we have good memories of the past, but good memories are not (in my view) a sufficient basis for an ongoing relationship. Even worse would be a sense of obligation on the part of my children towards me, simply because I'm their father. You summarized it well: "I hope my children will hold me accountable for my actions, and vice-versa."
        omarchowdhury 10y ago
        What was your relationship like with your parents?
gohrt 10y ago
What if the children are the ones disturbing the peace, not loving, and bering irrational? And how can you be "loving" and "rational" at the same time?
- jes 10y ago
  I think you've asked some good questions. So, I think children should be disturbing the peace, and perhaps frequently. I see children as being engaged in absolutely critical work, which is trying to build up a set of abstractions, or concepts, that will allow them to succeed in the world as adults. To do this, I think they have to do lots and lots of experiments. It may look like horsing around to us, but I don't think it is. As regards being loving, I'd say a couple of things. First, I think children have a natural sense for justice. A child that is treated justly will, over time, learn to treat others justly. Too often, though, I'm not sure that the parents have an entirely firm grip on what justice is, though, and so they might act unjustly towards their children, and then be angry when the child doesn't act in a loving manner towards them. As regards being irrational, I'd say that that is also sort of the expected-state for someone who is still developing. I don't think all parts of the brain (e.g., the pre-frontal cortex) is fully developed until about age 24 or so. I would also say, again, that one would want to look at what the parents are doing. Maybe they are treating the child in an irrational way, which I think is going to cause them to receive a response that, in their different frame of reference, seems "irrational." I'm not sure I understand the dichotomy between being loving and rational at the same time. In my view, a rational person is a loving person, rather than an emotionless character like Mr. Spock from Star Trek. Hope this helps.
  - SolaceQuantum 10y ago
    What happens when a child is psychotic or has a chronic health condition that causes them to struggle to communicate or 'give back' to their family in a way the family can understand? What happens if the child becomes suddenly ill, or is accused ofa crime that will take a lot of money to resolve? I feel that family is hard to view add a business transaction because there are these edge cases.