4 ms·

I graduated in 2003. I haven't been able to stop coding php. Why? Because of the amount of work. I know other languages, but the pay for php these days is tot

I graduated in 2003. I haven't been able to stop coding php. Why? Because of the amount of work. I know other languages, but the pay for php these days is totally astronomical. (I live in sf, pacific-heights / WELLL over 6 figs / wife doesn't work). Currently I feel like I have a massive technical advantage (I wont share). Right now I work on iphone/android backends - at massive scale, top 10 (PHP is fast). When people say PHP sucks, I actually encourage them. We can't even employ a new graduate these days because they are pre-programmed to like node.js (cool! let's rewrite everything!) and to hate php. So yeah! PHP SUCKS!!!

kreeves 10y ago
I've mostly tried to fight the anti-PHP movement because I WANT new developers to come on board and create great things. I want new packages to pop-up as soon as some new tool/api/widget becomes available. I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on. "Yeah, I'm doing Javascript and Node.js and yeah it's got it's sharp edges, but at least it's not PHP!" The problem is, if the negativity continues, the next step is that business WONT want PHP in their ecosystem... And not because it can't get the job done for them, but just because "ew PHP. I heard that was bad."
- ransom1538 10y ago
  I disagree. Wanting to get new grads into PHP is bizarre. They would be ostracized. They don't have the technical experience to know WHY it is a good language (CI/unit testing/years of libraries/API support in everything/bla bla). They should be working on things that are new and untested. That is what a twenty something should be working on. Check please?
  - nikdaheratik 10y ago
    I think this criticism is missing the biggest problem most new grads have: how to work well with others. Version control, documentation, checking their work before committing and sending to QA, documentation, and learning how little they actual know about development on a real timescale >> which language they use. I'd rather start out in a well run IT shop that uses PHP than a quirky single dev small shop (or god-forbid an academic ivory tower of babel) with the most cutting edge startup blessed tool set.
- vesak 10y ago
  >I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on. Would you be surprised if I told you that pro-PHP sentiment looks exactly like that as well?
  - kreeves 10y ago
    I could see that, to a degree. But I agree with this article that most (if not all) of the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. So the pro-PHP movement is more of a "guys, we're doing the same thing as you, why can't we all just get along?" When was the last time we saw a "PHP is Great!" article make it to the front page of HN? Most of the time, PHP developers are on their heels because it seems others are constantly on the offense. I've not figured out what value this constant aggression provides to these developers making the arguments. My only conclusion is that they're just trying to make themselves seem more important. To that note, the pro-PHP camp becomes more of a "non-anti-PHP." :)
    - imtringued 10y ago
      >the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. I mean sure I could just reimplement a sane standard library from a different language in PHP and then live with the suboptimal syntax or maybe I don't waste my time and just use that language with the better standard library from the get go.
tajen 10y ago
Any advice on how to build our own technical advantage, apart from studying and applying a lot?
Glyptodon 10y ago
I started in PHP but moved away from it because everyone always wanted to pay less than a CS grad should/would get using other languages "because PHP programmers are supposed to be cheap." Which meant not only did I get paid less, but that my coworkers frequently had very questionable ideas and no CS fundamentals. "No, you can not secure/maintain a session by base64 encoding a user name and id and putting them in a url" is a conversation that really shouldn't have needed to to take place.

kreeves 10y ago

I've mostly tried to fight the anti-PHP movement because I WANT new developers to come on board and create great things. I want new packages to pop-up as soon as some new tool/api/widget becomes available. I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on. "Yeah, I'm doing Javascript and Node.js and yeah it's got it's sharp edges, but at least it's not PHP!" The problem is, if the negativity continues, the next step is that business WONT want PHP in their ecosystem... And not because it can't get the job done for them, but just because "ew PHP. I heard that was bad."

ransom1538 10y ago
I disagree. Wanting to get new grads into PHP is bizarre. They would be ostracized. They don't have the technical experience to know WHY it is a good language (CI/unit testing/years of libraries/API support in everything/bla bla). They should be working on things that are new and untested. That is what a twenty something should be working on. Check please?
- nikdaheratik 10y ago
  I think this criticism is missing the biggest problem most new grads have: how to work well with others. Version control, documentation, checking their work before committing and sending to QA, documentation, and learning how little they actual know about development on a real timescale >> which language they use. I'd rather start out in a well run IT shop that uses PHP than a quirky single dev small shop (or god-forbid an academic ivory tower of babel) with the most cutting edge startup blessed tool set.
vesak 10y ago
>I've felt for quite some time that most of the anti-PHP sentiment is an effort of other developers to justify the language they've selected to focus on. Would you be surprised if I told you that pro-PHP sentiment looks exactly like that as well?
- kreeves 10y ago
  I could see that, to a degree. But I agree with this article that most (if not all) of the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. So the pro-PHP movement is more of a "guys, we're doing the same thing as you, why can't we all just get along?" When was the last time we saw a "PHP is Great!" article make it to the front page of HN? Most of the time, PHP developers are on their heels because it seems others are constantly on the offense. I've not figured out what value this constant aggression provides to these developers making the arguments. My only conclusion is that they're just trying to make themselves seem more important. To that note, the pro-PHP camp becomes more of a "non-anti-PHP." :)
  - imtringued 10y ago
    >the "bad" of PHP has been completely papered over through best practices, documentation, fantastic tooling, or removal from the language. I mean sure I could just reimplement a sane standard library from a different language in PHP and then live with the suboptimal syntax or maybe I don't waste my time and just use that language with the better standard library from the get go.

tajen 10y ago

Any advice on how to build our own technical advantage, apart from studying and applying a lot?

Glyptodon 10y ago

I started in PHP but moved away from it because everyone always wanted to pay less than a CS grad should/would get using other languages "because PHP programmers are supposed to be cheap." Which meant not only did I get paid less, but that my coworkers frequently had very questionable ideas and no CS fundamentals. "No, you can not secure/maintain a session by base64 encoding a user name and id and putting them in a url" is a conversation that really shouldn't have needed to to take place.