6 ms·

Samsung is a typical asian electronics company (has a hardware focused history and very good at it, but doesn't understand or respect software). I'm so glad th

Samsung is a typical asian electronics company (has a hardware focused history and very good at it, but doesn't understand or respect software). I'm so glad that node.js is not under Joyent control.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
wrong_variable 10y ago
I am not sure what Samsung being Asian has to do with anything :) This is good news for node.js since what this means is more money gets poured into node.js development. For example Microsoft pouring money into JS seems to have lead directly to Typescript.
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Samsung does have a somewhat bad reputation in the valley; e.g. https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Samsung-Research-America-Reviews-E295294_P2.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Samsung-Research-America-R... This could just be clashes between US and Korean management culture, or perhaps just some instability in a new research lab.
  - wrong_variable 10y ago
    Seems like the average complaints people have working at BigCo. Compared to the kind of stuff that Microsoft, Apple have done in the past in the software world. And I do not see how this is bad, maybe Samsung is trying to learn why 'Western' engineering is so much superior to 'Asian' engineering by this acquisition ?
    - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
      Some of the rumors going on say that management back home is very provincial and are rigidly Confucian (hierarchical), which they enforce on their satellite operations. Also, your basic big corp in tech are quite internationalized from the start even at home; e.g. IBM, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Apple already employ those from many different cultures even in their home offices. I guess they are making efforts to work on this: http://qz.com/288923/samsung-is-trying-to-improve-its-corporate-culture-amid-crisis/ http://qz.com/288923/samsung-is-trying-to-improve-its-corpor... > And I do not see how this is bad, maybe Samsung is trying to learn why 'Western' engineering is so much superior to 'Asian' engineering by this acquisition ? It depends if you want to be part of their learning experience or not! Chinese companies have adapted pretty well to acquisitions and satellites, so it isn't an Asian thing. Japanese companies have been known to have similar problems in the past and even currently (though it really depends on the company, and many have had a lot of time to gain experience). Actually, Japan is another country that is notorious for not being as great as they should be at software, maybe there is a common thing going on?
- smt88 10y ago
  > Microsoft pouring money into JS Microsoft is a software company. Samsung is not. If you think they are, then you probably haven't used one of their bloated, buggy phones that they stop updating way too soon.
- pkaye 10y ago
  I have no personal experience working for Samsung but know quite a few who did work for their US team and most don't have a positive experience. I also know some who worked for other South Korean companies. Lets just say the Korean work culture is quite different than in a typical US company. Hopefully the Joyent guys will be shielded from all this.
  - contingencies 10y ago
    I worked with two project managers from their US team STA (Samsung Technologies America). One was OK. The other one was a fucking psychopath. I'm talking about needlessly and viciously backstabbing all in range. Totally unbelievable. Never seen anything like it, and god help me I hope I never see it again. Later, I visited their HQ in Korea and met some of their Indian and Korean development teams. They were competent but the work culture was toxic. People were expected to attend 11PM daily review meetings where the issues list was painfully re-read pointlessly and nothing at all was achieved. Koreans were expected to live in numbered company compounds, catch a numbered company bus and ascend to a numbered floor in a numbered company skyscraper after an airport security style physical check. Smoking allowed strictly twice per day in a designated corner of the compound. All movement is tracked. Psychotic Confucian management style. I honestly thought to myself: if this is a vision of the future, I want no part of it.
    - fatihdonmez 10y ago
      Then you should see the japanese way of working, it's also quite fun! I believe this is common in most of asia. I have worked in China and it's not quite different at all from what you're saying.
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
      - tluyben2 10y ago
        My experience in Shanghai/Suzhou is very different fortunately. Not very long days if not needed, high salaries and quite a bit of freedom. Very Western feel while we work with Chinese companies with no Western employees.
- 746F7475 10y ago
  Considering Samsung has been known to push for proprietary technology (they tried to create market of Android apps that would only work on Samsung's phones) I'm little worried there is going to be some sort of new node.js fork that's incompatible with current one and has some weird licensing stuff or something.
- Annatar 10y ago
  What it has to do with it being Asian is the culture of conformity and group think; this is in stark contrast to Bryan's statement that at Joyent everyone leads and is led by taking individual initiative.
- pmontra 10y ago
  Don't know. There isn't even a word about Node in the statement from then CEO, but before today I didn't even know what the main business of Joyent is so I can't say how they and Samsung think it's important for them. Just figure, my first thought was "Samsung wants Node, but why?" :-) Anyway, it's not tightly bound with Joyent anymore so even a worst case scenario won't affect ot much.
- st3v3r 10y ago
  I'd say it's terrible news, cause node.js development is going to be influenced heavily by Samsung. Remember Tizen?
jsjohnst 10y ago
Having worked in a Samsung office for enough time to have an informed opinion, I can emphatically say that the "hardware focused history" has nothing to do with their lacking on the software front. They have some amazing engineers (especially at HQ in Korea), but the main obstacles are partly Korean culture in general (especially as it pertains to engineers) and partly the management practices of the company. The best things they develop (either in partnership or internally) usually never have a fair leg in the market. I'm certainly not apologizing for the company, just saying don't think the issues you see are directly the engineer's fault. I don't remember the exact Korean wording, but a common phrase said by Samsung engineers (under their breath) in Korea basically translates to "I'll do what you say, but it's only because I'm at <name of a Japanese labor camp that I forget now>." My time there really made me appreciate how much better we have it here!
- jeswin 10y ago
  > They have some amazing engineers (especially at HQ in Korea), but the main obstacles are partly Korean culture in general (especially as it pertains to engineers) and partly the management practices of the company. Can you explain the cultural aspects (and management shortcomings) in more detail for those of us who haven't experienced Korea? Thanks.
  - Bahamut 10y ago
    I only have secondhand knowledge (my brother worked at Samsung HQ for almost two years after grad school & a post-doc), but Samsung managers are often corrupt and treat their employees like trash. Foreigners have it a little better, they're allowed to go home at relatively more normal hours, but if you're from Korea and Korean, you do whatever the boss tells you or they retaliate hard since there are plenty of starry-eyed hardworking Koreans ready to take your place to work for the biggest company in & the pride of Korea. My brother wasn't completely immune either, they stiffed him on bonus pay by 50% on a max bonus year & lowballed him compared to all other foreigners by almost 2x compensation for similar credentials (our suspicion is because he's Korean - they refused to give him a reason. When he tried to go higher through a former Samsung VP relative of ours, who got a high ranking HR person to investigate, he got warned by his HR manager with an implicit threat), and he was a hotshot who finished his chemistry PhD at 25 at a top 25 US program who had his choice of jobs/academic positions. He ended up making it through by making a deal with his boss to leave him alone and my brother would avoid exposing corruption/bad decision making & getting him sacked (boss refused to teach or lend any resource for learning technical Korean chemistry terminology because his experience in American graduate school had him learning it on his own - it was explicit retaliation against western academia), and my brother still hated his life there (thought about suicide almost every day there); his first reaction setting foot on US soil again was "I love the taste of freedom!". Whenever someone in HQ tells you to do something, you do it, and if not, you get punished, whether that's through decreased compensation or they fire you. You can be the engineer that tells managers that you can't draw parallel lines that intersect (metaphorically speaking), but they don't want to hear it unless the competitor proves them wrong with sales results - they are notorious for not innovating, but copying competitors. Samsung runs on waterfall from top to bottom. Oh, and if they tell you to do something early in the morning, you jump. Samsung also tends to mainly promote Koreans - if you're not Korean and want to get ahead, you'd best look elsewhere because you're not likely to accomplish it. I hear this also applies to their American divisions as well, but I do not know anyone who has worked for them here. The family who owns the company has had some history with corruption in Korea as well, so this isn't too surprising. More on the cultural side, Koreans can be very rude by western standards - it also is demanding on expectations. You're often expected to dress a certain way (this part is no different from most of the world, but disregarding norms is probably more harshly regarded in Korean culture than most), as well as join bosses & other co-workers going out to drink and doing karaoke at night. Deferring to father-like/older figures is built into the language with even how one addresses another, and that bleeds into how companies operate (& people treat each other - even being one month older can come into play unless you have leverage of some sorts). There are also built in opinions on processes, from parenting to schooling to work. Koreans tend to also be quite xenophobic/racist, even against Koreans who cannot speak Korean (maybe even moreso towards Koreans who cannot speak the language). Society sort of disowns those who are not immersed in the culture. Non-Asian foreigners are special, but they are excluded from much of anything of consequence (probably to avoid stirring the pot with other nations). There's probably a lot more I'm missing here, but tl;dr if you aren't an extremely mentally tough person, working for a Korean company in Korea can crush you thoroughly. It is a different world, and people who do so from western society are left without a support base.
dba7dba 10y ago
Why be a racist? jk. There's a reason Samsung seems to be not that great as a software shop. I wrote up a long post on HN almost 2 years ago (God, it's been 2 years!!). I'm reposting the link here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7712192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7712192
dekz 10y ago
How do you come to the conclusion that the entirety of Samsung don't understand or respect software, when they clearly show great contributions to OSS? [0]. [0]: http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/ http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/
- blakeyrat 10y ago
  There are a lot of projects that are totally open source, and yet terrible software. An awful lot.
- gribbly 10y ago
  Well, in the case of Linux they are legally bound to provide the source code to any modifications they ship in binary form to a third party due to the GPL, I don't know what their track record is when they don't have to release the source code.
jasonlotito 10y ago
Yeah, this comment is ignorance at its finest. Mapzen, for example, was also acquired by Samsung, and it still operates as its own little startup, just with more financial security. Joyent seems to be going the same way. They will remain Joyent, but with support from Samsung.

Samsung is a typical asian electronics company (has a hardware focused history and very good at it, but doesn't understand or respect software). I'm so glad that node.js is not under Joyent control.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

wrong_variable 10y ago

I am not sure what Samsung being Asian has to do with anything :) This is good news for node.js since what this means is more money gets poured into node.js development. For example Microsoft pouring money into JS seems to have lead directly to Typescript.

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Samsung does have a somewhat bad reputation in the valley; e.g. https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Samsung-Research-America-Reviews-E295294_P2.htm https://www.glassdoor.com/Reviews/Samsung-Research-America-R... This could just be clashes between US and Korean management culture, or perhaps just some instability in a new research lab.
- wrong_variable 10y ago
  Seems like the average complaints people have working at BigCo. Compared to the kind of stuff that Microsoft, Apple have done in the past in the software world. And I do not see how this is bad, maybe Samsung is trying to learn why 'Western' engineering is so much superior to 'Asian' engineering by this acquisition ?
  - seanmcdirmid 10y ago
    Some of the rumors going on say that management back home is very provincial and are rigidly Confucian (hierarchical), which they enforce on their satellite operations. Also, your basic big corp in tech are quite internationalized from the start even at home; e.g. IBM, Microsoft, Intel, Facebook, Apple already employ those from many different cultures even in their home offices. I guess they are making efforts to work on this: http://qz.com/288923/samsung-is-trying-to-improve-its-corporate-culture-amid-crisis/ http://qz.com/288923/samsung-is-trying-to-improve-its-corpor... > And I do not see how this is bad, maybe Samsung is trying to learn why 'Western' engineering is so much superior to 'Asian' engineering by this acquisition ? It depends if you want to be part of their learning experience or not! Chinese companies have adapted pretty well to acquisitions and satellites, so it isn't an Asian thing. Japanese companies have been known to have similar problems in the past and even currently (though it really depends on the company, and many have had a lot of time to gain experience). Actually, Japan is another country that is notorious for not being as great as they should be at software, maybe there is a common thing going on?
smt88 10y ago
> Microsoft pouring money into JS Microsoft is a software company. Samsung is not. If you think they are, then you probably haven't used one of their bloated, buggy phones that they stop updating way too soon.
pkaye 10y ago
I have no personal experience working for Samsung but know quite a few who did work for their US team and most don't have a positive experience. I also know some who worked for other South Korean companies. Lets just say the Korean work culture is quite different than in a typical US company. Hopefully the Joyent guys will be shielded from all this.
- contingencies 10y ago
  I worked with two project managers from their US team STA (Samsung Technologies America). One was OK. The other one was a fucking psychopath. I'm talking about needlessly and viciously backstabbing all in range. Totally unbelievable. Never seen anything like it, and god help me I hope I never see it again. Later, I visited their HQ in Korea and met some of their Indian and Korean development teams. They were competent but the work culture was toxic. People were expected to attend 11PM daily review meetings where the issues list was painfully re-read pointlessly and nothing at all was achieved. Koreans were expected to live in numbered company compounds, catch a numbered company bus and ascend to a numbered floor in a numbered company skyscraper after an airport security style physical check. Smoking allowed strictly twice per day in a designated corner of the compound. All movement is tracked. Psychotic Confucian management style. I honestly thought to myself: if this is a vision of the future, I want no part of it.
  - fatihdonmez 10y ago
    Then you should see the japanese way of working, it's also quite fun! I believe this is common in most of asia. I have worked in China and it's not quite different at all from what you're saying.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - tluyben2 10y ago
      My experience in Shanghai/Suzhou is very different fortunately. Not very long days if not needed, high salaries and quite a bit of freedom. Very Western feel while we work with Chinese companies with no Western employees.
746F7475 10y ago
Considering Samsung has been known to push for proprietary technology (they tried to create market of Android apps that would only work on Samsung's phones) I'm little worried there is going to be some sort of new node.js fork that's incompatible with current one and has some weird licensing stuff or something.
Annatar 10y ago
What it has to do with it being Asian is the culture of conformity and group think; this is in stark contrast to Bryan's statement that at Joyent everyone leads and is led by taking individual initiative.
pmontra 10y ago
Don't know. There isn't even a word about Node in the statement from then CEO, but before today I didn't even know what the main business of Joyent is so I can't say how they and Samsung think it's important for them. Just figure, my first thought was "Samsung wants Node, but why?" :-) Anyway, it's not tightly bound with Joyent anymore so even a worst case scenario won't affect ot much.
st3v3r 10y ago
I'd say it's terrible news, cause node.js development is going to be influenced heavily by Samsung. Remember Tizen?

jsjohnst 10y ago

Having worked in a Samsung office for enough time to have an informed opinion, I can emphatically say that the "hardware focused history" has nothing to do with their lacking on the software front. They have some amazing engineers (especially at HQ in Korea), but the main obstacles are partly Korean culture in general (especially as it pertains to engineers) and partly the management practices of the company. The best things they develop (either in partnership or internally) usually never have a fair leg in the market. I'm certainly not apologizing for the company, just saying don't think the issues you see are directly the engineer's fault. I don't remember the exact Korean wording, but a common phrase said by Samsung engineers (under their breath) in Korea basically translates to "I'll do what you say, but it's only because I'm at <name of a Japanese labor camp that I forget now>." My time there really made me appreciate how much better we have it here!

jeswin 10y ago
> They have some amazing engineers (especially at HQ in Korea), but the main obstacles are partly Korean culture in general (especially as it pertains to engineers) and partly the management practices of the company. Can you explain the cultural aspects (and management shortcomings) in more detail for those of us who haven't experienced Korea? Thanks.
- Bahamut 10y ago
  I only have secondhand knowledge (my brother worked at Samsung HQ for almost two years after grad school & a post-doc), but Samsung managers are often corrupt and treat their employees like trash. Foreigners have it a little better, they're allowed to go home at relatively more normal hours, but if you're from Korea and Korean, you do whatever the boss tells you or they retaliate hard since there are plenty of starry-eyed hardworking Koreans ready to take your place to work for the biggest company in & the pride of Korea. My brother wasn't completely immune either, they stiffed him on bonus pay by 50% on a max bonus year & lowballed him compared to all other foreigners by almost 2x compensation for similar credentials (our suspicion is because he's Korean - they refused to give him a reason. When he tried to go higher through a former Samsung VP relative of ours, who got a high ranking HR person to investigate, he got warned by his HR manager with an implicit threat), and he was a hotshot who finished his chemistry PhD at 25 at a top 25 US program who had his choice of jobs/academic positions. He ended up making it through by making a deal with his boss to leave him alone and my brother would avoid exposing corruption/bad decision making & getting him sacked (boss refused to teach or lend any resource for learning technical Korean chemistry terminology because his experience in American graduate school had him learning it on his own - it was explicit retaliation against western academia), and my brother still hated his life there (thought about suicide almost every day there); his first reaction setting foot on US soil again was "I love the taste of freedom!". Whenever someone in HQ tells you to do something, you do it, and if not, you get punished, whether that's through decreased compensation or they fire you. You can be the engineer that tells managers that you can't draw parallel lines that intersect (metaphorically speaking), but they don't want to hear it unless the competitor proves them wrong with sales results - they are notorious for not innovating, but copying competitors. Samsung runs on waterfall from top to bottom. Oh, and if they tell you to do something early in the morning, you jump. Samsung also tends to mainly promote Koreans - if you're not Korean and want to get ahead, you'd best look elsewhere because you're not likely to accomplish it. I hear this also applies to their American divisions as well, but I do not know anyone who has worked for them here. The family who owns the company has had some history with corruption in Korea as well, so this isn't too surprising. More on the cultural side, Koreans can be very rude by western standards - it also is demanding on expectations. You're often expected to dress a certain way (this part is no different from most of the world, but disregarding norms is probably more harshly regarded in Korean culture than most), as well as join bosses & other co-workers going out to drink and doing karaoke at night. Deferring to father-like/older figures is built into the language with even how one addresses another, and that bleeds into how companies operate (& people treat each other - even being one month older can come into play unless you have leverage of some sorts). There are also built in opinions on processes, from parenting to schooling to work. Koreans tend to also be quite xenophobic/racist, even against Koreans who cannot speak Korean (maybe even moreso towards Koreans who cannot speak the language). Society sort of disowns those who are not immersed in the culture. Non-Asian foreigners are special, but they are excluded from much of anything of consequence (probably to avoid stirring the pot with other nations). There's probably a lot more I'm missing here, but tl;dr if you aren't an extremely mentally tough person, working for a Korean company in Korea can crush you thoroughly. It is a different world, and people who do so from western society are left without a support base.

dba7dba 10y ago

Why be a racist? jk. There's a reason Samsung seems to be not that great as a software shop. I wrote up a long post on HN almost 2 years ago (God, it's been 2 years!!). I'm reposting the link here. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7712192 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7712192

dekz 10y ago

How do you come to the conclusion that the entirety of Samsung don't understand or respect software, when they clearly show great contributions to OSS? [0]. [0]: http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/ http://linuxcontrib-inn.rhcloud.com/

blakeyrat 10y ago
There are a lot of projects that are totally open source, and yet terrible software. An awful lot.
gribbly 10y ago
Well, in the case of Linux they are legally bound to provide the source code to any modifications they ship in binary form to a third party due to the GPL, I don't know what their track record is when they don't have to release the source code.

jasonlotito 10y ago

Yeah, this comment is ignorance at its finest. Mapzen, for example, was also acquired by Samsung, and it still operates as its own little startup, just with more financial security. Joyent seems to be going the same way. They will remain Joyent, but with support from Samsung.