7 ms·

Americans' Confidence in Institutions Stays Low

70 points by randomname2 10y ago

pigpaws 10y ago
confidence in congress only went down 10%? they must be polling the lobbyists or something...
- jostmey 10y ago
  It's sad because congress is where our individual vote carries the most weight. It's a crucial institution for our country, without which we'd be nothing more than an empire (in my opinion). Now more than ever it is important to root out the cronyism, nepotism, and big-money that has corrupted this important branch of our government.
  - honkhonkpants 10y ago
    You can't clean up Congress because you only get to vote for one of 438 members. In general the problem with members of Congress is that their constituents actually like them and frequently re-elect them.
    - plandis 10y ago
      This fact is quite sad when you consider that there are some representatives who state that it's their job to make sure nothing happens. Then people elect these people!
  - zappo2938 10y ago
    Maybe people have higher confidence in their own Congresspersons. Perhaps, they disagree strongly with their counterpart voting constituents on the Coasts. If this is the case, democracy is working as expected.
    - eldavido 10y ago
      I also believe democracy is "working as expected". It's hard to see locally, but we're a country that's deeply divided on some core issues. Half the country wants gay marriage, the other half doesn't. A single-payer-advocating socialist almost won the Democratic primary, where his opponent is talking seriously about trying to "roll back" the ACA ("Obamacare"), this president's legacy domestic policy achievement. I feel like half the country wants to become more like Europe -- more socialist, higher minimum wage, high taxes, big social safety net, free universities, lots of job protections (and the reluctance to hire that goes with it), minimal/no religion, less marriage, whereas the other half wants to step back about 50 years to picket fences, nuclear families, and a more isolated national existence. We aren't going to have another civil war but I wouldn't be surprised if, looking back, we're more ideologically divided now than the country was, then.
      - throwanem 10y ago
        As many American soldiers died in the Civil War as in every other war we've ever fought combined. If we were as divided now as we were then, I think it'd be surprising as hell.
        dragonwriter 10y ago
        The Civil War didn't occur just because of how deep the divisions were, but because they were strongly correlated with geography and not strongly correlated with class (particularly, that the divisions were quite present among the upper class with disproportionate influence on governments, and, while not perfectly aligned with geography, strongly correlated with it especially among the upper classes.) The same degree of division with different geographic and class distribution could very well not have similar results.
      - maxxxxx 10y ago
        That divide is fabricated by political strategists (see "wedge issues"). When you talk to people about topics where the parties haven't staked out a position yet most people are willing to compromise or simply don't care.
  - sehugg 10y ago
    Extreme polarization is keeping Congress from functioning properly: http://www.pressherald.com/2012/03/04/analysis-shows-congress-shifting-toward-extremes-_2012-03-04/ http://www.pressherald.com/2012/03/04/analysis-shows-congres...
    - berkeleynerd 10y ago
      I'd call it an almost complete breakdown of the parliamentary process in this country. The unwillingness of Congress to advise and consent with regard to filling a supreme court vacancy is unprecedented and the media is essentially ignoring it given the constitutional crisis it truly represents.
      - pigpaws 10y ago
        Then you must address the fact that SCOTUS is now adjudicating law based not on the law itself or precedents or logical reasoning, but how the individual judges personally feel the law should apply... which is why congress is hemming-and-hawing over it. also, much like Soylent Green, companies are now 'people'...
        vkou 10y ago
        SCOTUS has been adjudicating law based on how judges feel for almost 250 years. Corporate personhood has also been a well-accepted legal practice since the 19th century.
- ccallebs 10y ago
  It went from 19% to 9%. Meaning a relative reduction of > 50%. When you're already at the bottom there's not much room to fall :)
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
hackuser 10y ago
Speaking generally, people seem to have unrealistic expectations about human institutions. Name a large one that isn't bureaucratic, that doesn't have inefficiencies of large organizations, and where its priority isn't loyalty to the institution itself (though Congress, consisting of elected people nationwide, might be an exception to that). Not all institutions are the same; some are better than others and we shouldn't just accept problems and corruption. But why do people keep believing big talkers who say they're going to magically eliminate all those things and make it run like a hyper-efficient 5-person business? IMHO, much of it is people looking to get elected by looking for problems and things to complain about, rather than looking how to get things done. Without time to examine it in detail (I've got to run), I'd hypothesize that most of what's important in the world is accomplished and has been accomplished by large institutions.
- alanwatts 10y ago
  >I'd hypothesize that most of what's important in the world is accomplished and has been accomplished by large institutions. Teams of people are good at solving problems that individuals could not do by themselves, nothing new there. On the flip side of this hypothesis, the most grievous acts have also been committed by teams of people. Accountability and transparency are the important factors here.
- clumsysmurf 10y ago
  In "American Amnesia" (1) Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson argue that post WWII, the mixed economy of private business / free markets doing what it does best, in conjunction with the government investing in education, science, technology, and infrastructure (which all benefit private sector), while providing a safety net, resulted in prosperity. The trend since Reagan / Thatcher years (neoliberalism) and anti-government free market fundamentalism threatens this constructive partnership where private sector and government were both rivals and partners. On the one side you have "starving the beast" (think Grover Norquist, Tax Pledge), defunding critical programs to the point of dysfunction. Does it surprise anyone that the IRS is underfunded by Congress to pursue tax evaders, as Congressman are lobbied to keep loopholes open? Another calamity is NASA's Earth Sciences, the part that studies Earth itself (climate change, etc). On the other side of the isle, the dems have failed to make government /efficient/ and a visible positive force in the daily lives of average people. (1) https://www.amazon.com/American-Amnesia-Government-America-Prosper-ebook/dp/B010MHAITI https://www.amazon.com/American-Amnesia-Government-America-P...
vaadu 10y ago
The problem is multilayered: - Corruption. money gets access - Elected government folks over promise and under deliver. - Elected government folks' priority is getting reelected. - Unelected government folks have far too much power - Lack of accountability for wrongdoing and incompetence - Waste of taxpayer money - Good people don't want to run for office because the scrutiny is too high
- AnimalMuppet 10y ago
  In other words, Americans are correctly assessing their institutions, which is why confidence in them is low...
  - theseatoms 10y ago
    Exactly. I don't see why this is a "problem."
    - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
      Well, it's not a problem that the American people are too cynical. But it is a problem that our institutions are turning into trash.
      - krapp 10y ago
        It is a problem that the American people are too cynical. Cynicism is the reason negative campaign ads are so effective - no one trusts political ads unless they're negative - and the more negative they are, the more people believe them. Cynics don't bother actually studying the positions of a candidate - because they know all candidates are corrupt anyway, and all parties are the same - but of course they'll vote for anyone who's politically incorrect and promises to "throw the bastards out," because the only politician anyone trusts is a politician who pretends they're not running for office. Cynicism has made the concept of being engaged with the political process a joke to anyone who doesn't want to destroy that process. I mean, the cynics are correct, but they're also more than a little responsible for perpetuating that system by setting the bar so low.
pasbesoin 10y ago
You have to enable people to do the right thing. Sufficient stability and resources, combined with active and effective accountability. No project, much less institution, is "set and forget". Nor can any individual continually nor consistently "do the right thing" in the face of ongoing personal threat and insecurity. Not every aspect of life benefits from loose, disposable relationships. Professional, nor personal.
NTDF9 10y ago
Life in America is simple, "To each his own". You are on your own if you fuck up and no, you can't rely on institutions to save your ass. Institutions are just looking for their own good.
- yompers888 10y ago
  Your path leads to lots of problems. Humans are social; our entire adaptability revolves around being able, in times of discomfort or disaster, to use the tools others have spent their time and resources creating. Someone thinking it's possible to make it on his/her own just shows that cooperation is so ubiquitous that we don't even notice it. The development patterns of the last 75 years, with their spreading out of people, have caused huge problems here, causing people to be physically distant from one another, eroding a very natural support network. Additionally, we've lost powerful charitable forces over the recent decades: religion and unpaid women. Wealthy wives, being expected to stay home with the kids, were hugely important in social work. Now that church influence is in decline and women are paid for their work, we have to pivot to other institutions for support structures. In the US, we've not quite gotten that next generation of support figured out.
virmundi 10y ago
I wonder if the reason we distrust our institutions is because we almost worship them. As I've watched the society become more atheistic, I've watched it look more and more to the human institutions to replace what it lost. All the grandeur and power we expected of a god is missing. Instead we see corrupt humans just like us doing corrupt things. Every time something bad happens, we scream for the government to do something. We don't hold the person accountable; we hold the tool. When the government does something and it has unintended consequences, we get mad that they didn't forsee it coming or we get mad that they knew what would happen and just wanted steal even more power. The same is true for financial institutions. We expect them to magically make money and prosperity for our stocks. We give them grand titles and powers. Then they fail. We gnash our teeth and curse these Titans of industry.
- jdavis703 10y ago
  This is one of the main points of "Sapiens." That Capitalism, Communism, Nations-States, et al are manifestations of a new wave of religions that followed the first wave (polytheism, tree worship, animism, etc), and the second wave of monotheistic religions like Islam, Christianity etc.
vermontdevil 10y ago
Most Americans' common encounter with the "institutions" would be the following: DMV (motor vehicle bureau/department) Post Office Police/Courts Local schools Social Security Our government is not monolithic. It's vast (ranging from SS, military, FAA, FDA, NASA, etc etc) and on the state level as well. But seems many Americans' experience are mostly with these front line departments and quite often it is not quite positive. But many of us do not see beyond this and want to tear down everything regardless of how essential many of these agencies/services are.
- CaptSpify 10y ago
  You don't notice when things go well. If you have a good experience with the Fire Department, you aren't going to say "wow, I wish we could take down that institution". It just disappears from your mind. I'm sure there's a term for this, but I don't know what it is.

70 points by randomname2 10y ago

pigpaws 10y ago

confidence in congress only went down 10%? they must be polling the lobbyists or something...

jostmey 10y ago
It's sad because congress is where our individual vote carries the most weight. It's a crucial institution for our country, without which we'd be nothing more than an empire (in my opinion). Now more than ever it is important to root out the cronyism, nepotism, and big-money that has corrupted this important branch of our government.
- honkhonkpants 10y ago
  You can't clean up Congress because you only get to vote for one of 438 members. In general the problem with members of Congress is that their constituents actually like them and frequently re-elect them.
  - plandis 10y ago
    This fact is quite sad when you consider that there are some representatives who state that it's their job to make sure nothing happens. Then people elect these people!
- zappo2938 10y ago
  Maybe people have higher confidence in their own Congresspersons. Perhaps, they disagree strongly with their counterpart voting constituents on the Coasts. If this is the case, democracy is working as expected.
  - eldavido 10y ago
    I also believe democracy is "working as expected". It's hard to see locally, but we're a country that's deeply divided on some core issues. Half the country wants gay marriage, the other half doesn't. A single-payer-advocating socialist almost won the Democratic primary, where his opponent is talking seriously about trying to "roll back" the ACA ("Obamacare"), this president's legacy domestic policy achievement. I feel like half the country wants to become more like Europe -- more socialist, higher minimum wage, high taxes, big social safety net, free universities, lots of job protections (and the reluctance to hire that goes with it), minimal/no religion, less marriage, whereas the other half wants to step back about 50 years to picket fences, nuclear families, and a more isolated national existence. We aren't going to have another civil war but I wouldn't be surprised if, looking back, we're more ideologically divided now than the country was, then.
    - throwanem 10y ago
      As many American soldiers died in the Civil War as in every other war we've ever fought combined. If we were as divided now as we were then, I think it'd be surprising as hell.
      - dragonwriter 10y ago
        The Civil War didn't occur just because of how deep the divisions were, but because they were strongly correlated with geography and not strongly correlated with class (particularly, that the divisions were quite present among the upper class with disproportionate influence on governments, and, while not perfectly aligned with geography, strongly correlated with it especially among the upper classes.) The same degree of division with different geographic and class distribution could very well not have similar results.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      That divide is fabricated by political strategists (see "wedge issues"). When you talk to people about topics where the parties haven't staked out a position yet most people are willing to compromise or simply don't care.
- sehugg 10y ago
  Extreme polarization is keeping Congress from functioning properly: http://www.pressherald.com/2012/03/04/analysis-shows-congress-shifting-toward-extremes-_2012-03-04/ http://www.pressherald.com/2012/03/04/analysis-shows-congres...
  - berkeleynerd 10y ago
    I'd call it an almost complete breakdown of the parliamentary process in this country. The unwillingness of Congress to advise and consent with regard to filling a supreme court vacancy is unprecedented and the media is essentially ignoring it given the constitutional crisis it truly represents.
    - pigpaws 10y ago
      Then you must address the fact that SCOTUS is now adjudicating law based not on the law itself or precedents or logical reasoning, but how the individual judges personally feel the law should apply... which is why congress is hemming-and-hawing over it. also, much like Soylent Green, companies are now 'people'...
      - vkou 10y ago
        SCOTUS has been adjudicating law based on how judges feel for almost 250 years. Corporate personhood has also been a well-accepted legal practice since the 19th century.
ccallebs 10y ago
It went from 19% to 9%. Meaning a relative reduction of > 50%. When you're already at the bottom there's not much room to fall :)

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

hackuser 10y ago

Speaking generally, people seem to have unrealistic expectations about human institutions. Name a large one that isn't bureaucratic, that doesn't have inefficiencies of large organizations, and where its priority isn't loyalty to the institution itself (though Congress, consisting of elected people nationwide, might be an exception to that). Not all institutions are the same; some are better than others and we shouldn't just accept problems and corruption. But why do people keep believing big talkers who say they're going to magically eliminate all those things and make it run like a hyper-efficient 5-person business? IMHO, much of it is people looking to get elected by looking for problems and things to complain about, rather than looking how to get things done. Without time to examine it in detail (I've got to run), I'd hypothesize that most of what's important in the world is accomplished and has been accomplished by large institutions.

alanwatts 10y ago
>I'd hypothesize that most of what's important in the world is accomplished and has been accomplished by large institutions. Teams of people are good at solving problems that individuals could not do by themselves, nothing new there. On the flip side of this hypothesis, the most grievous acts have also been committed by teams of people. Accountability and transparency are the important factors here.
clumsysmurf 10y ago
In "American Amnesia" (1) Jacob S. Hacker and Paul Pierson argue that post WWII, the mixed economy of private business / free markets doing what it does best, in conjunction with the government investing in education, science, technology, and infrastructure (which all benefit private sector), while providing a safety net, resulted in prosperity. The trend since Reagan / Thatcher years (neoliberalism) and anti-government free market fundamentalism threatens this constructive partnership where private sector and government were both rivals and partners. On the one side you have "starving the beast" (think Grover Norquist, Tax Pledge), defunding critical programs to the point of dysfunction. Does it surprise anyone that the IRS is underfunded by Congress to pursue tax evaders, as Congressman are lobbied to keep loopholes open? Another calamity is NASA's Earth Sciences, the part that studies Earth itself (climate change, etc). On the other side of the isle, the dems have failed to make government /efficient/ and a visible positive force in the daily lives of average people. (1) https://www.amazon.com/American-Amnesia-Government-America-Prosper-ebook/dp/B010MHAITI https://www.amazon.com/American-Amnesia-Government-America-P...

vaadu 10y ago

The problem is multilayered: - Corruption. money gets access - Elected government folks over promise and under deliver. - Elected government folks' priority is getting reelected. - Unelected government folks have far too much power - Lack of accountability for wrongdoing and incompetence - Waste of taxpayer money - Good people don't want to run for office because the scrutiny is too high

AnimalMuppet 10y ago
In other words, Americans are correctly assessing their institutions, which is why confidence in them is low...
- theseatoms 10y ago
  Exactly. I don't see why this is a "problem."
  - AnimalMuppet 10y ago
    Well, it's not a problem that the American people are too cynical. But it is a problem that our institutions are turning into trash.
    - krapp 10y ago
      It is a problem that the American people are too cynical. Cynicism is the reason negative campaign ads are so effective - no one trusts political ads unless they're negative - and the more negative they are, the more people believe them. Cynics don't bother actually studying the positions of a candidate - because they know all candidates are corrupt anyway, and all parties are the same - but of course they'll vote for anyone who's politically incorrect and promises to "throw the bastards out," because the only politician anyone trusts is a politician who pretends they're not running for office. Cynicism has made the concept of being engaged with the political process a joke to anyone who doesn't want to destroy that process. I mean, the cynics are correct, but they're also more than a little responsible for perpetuating that system by setting the bar so low.

pasbesoin 10y ago

You have to enable people to do the right thing. Sufficient stability and resources, combined with active and effective accountability. No project, much less institution, is "set and forget". Nor can any individual continually nor consistently "do the right thing" in the face of ongoing personal threat and insecurity. Not every aspect of life benefits from loose, disposable relationships. Professional, nor personal.

NTDF9 10y ago

Life in America is simple, "To each his own". You are on your own if you fuck up and no, you can't rely on institutions to save your ass. Institutions are just looking for their own good.

yompers888 10y ago
Your path leads to lots of problems. Humans are social; our entire adaptability revolves around being able, in times of discomfort or disaster, to use the tools others have spent their time and resources creating. Someone thinking it's possible to make it on his/her own just shows that cooperation is so ubiquitous that we don't even notice it. The development patterns of the last 75 years, with their spreading out of people, have caused huge problems here, causing people to be physically distant from one another, eroding a very natural support network. Additionally, we've lost powerful charitable forces over the recent decades: religion and unpaid women. Wealthy wives, being expected to stay home with the kids, were hugely important in social work. Now that church influence is in decline and women are paid for their work, we have to pivot to other institutions for support structures. In the US, we've not quite gotten that next generation of support figured out.

virmundi 10y ago

I wonder if the reason we distrust our institutions is because we almost worship them. As I've watched the society become more atheistic, I've watched it look more and more to the human institutions to replace what it lost. All the grandeur and power we expected of a god is missing. Instead we see corrupt humans just like us doing corrupt things. Every time something bad happens, we scream for the government to do something. We don't hold the person accountable; we hold the tool. When the government does something and it has unintended consequences, we get mad that they didn't forsee it coming or we get mad that they knew what would happen and just wanted steal even more power. The same is true for financial institutions. We expect them to magically make money and prosperity for our stocks. We give them grand titles and powers. Then they fail. We gnash our teeth and curse these Titans of industry.

jdavis703 10y ago
This is one of the main points of "Sapiens." That Capitalism, Communism, Nations-States, et al are manifestations of a new wave of religions that followed the first wave (polytheism, tree worship, animism, etc), and the second wave of monotheistic religions like Islam, Christianity etc.

vermontdevil 10y ago

Most Americans' common encounter with the "institutions" would be the following: DMV (motor vehicle bureau/department) Post Office Police/Courts Local schools Social Security Our government is not monolithic. It's vast (ranging from SS, military, FAA, FDA, NASA, etc etc) and on the state level as well. But seems many Americans' experience are mostly with these front line departments and quite often it is not quite positive. But many of us do not see beyond this and want to tear down everything regardless of how essential many of these agencies/services are.

CaptSpify 10y ago
You don't notice when things go well. If you have a good experience with the Fire Department, you aren't going to say "wow, I wish we could take down that institution". It just disappears from your mind. I'm sure there's a term for this, but I don't know what it is.