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Apple says they intend to open-source the file system in the docs. Open Source: "An open source implementation is not available at this time. Apple plans to do

Apple says they intend to open-source the file system in the docs. Open Source: "An open source implementation is not available at this time. Apple plans to document and publish the APFS volume format when Apple File System is released in 2017."

sirn 10y ago
Source of the quote is this page: https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/UsingtheAppleFileSystem/UsingtheAppleFileSystem.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40016999-CH4-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/docum... Releasing a new filesystem is already surprising. And they plan to open-source it. Huh.
anc84 10y ago
Free software and patent-free or whatever some lawyers call "open"?
- skrause 10y ago
  They said "publish the APFS volume format". So that can mean just documentation and not code at all.
  - Retra 10y ago
    Published code doesn't mean 'open' either. You need rights to the code, not merely access to it.
zingplex 10y ago
Just like they promised to open source FaceTime and iMessages? Apple has a history of making false promises in regards to open sourcing products.
- macintux 10y ago
  I don't recall any promises around iMessage, and FaceTime fell victim to patents.
- wrigby 10y ago
  My understanding was that FaceTime and iMessage weren't open sourced because of issues related to a patent troll (VirnetX IIRC). I'd be interested in hearing from others that are more familiar with the situation.
  - MBCook 10y ago
    Not only that, but apparently Steve Jobs decided to just say that on stage and while it had been discussed a bit it wasn't the plan and came as a total shock to the people involved.
  - pluckytree 10y ago
    Or perhaps concern with having to deal with 3rd party iMessage/Facetime clients while at the same time trying to maintain a high level of security. Apple doesn’t want anything to tarnish the security reputation of these products.
- Jerry2 10y ago
  > FaceTime They got sued heavily for it. They had to completely change the implementation and it became a non-P2P video chat.
- qmr 10y ago
  Not sure why you're being downvoted. Too many fanboys I guess. I would hope the community is more enlightened than that.
  - matthewmacleod 10y ago
    Because it's just kind of lazy and incorrect, that's why. Apple did promise to open FaceTime, and was promptly sued – that's why it's not open. AFAIK there was no promise to open iMessage.
    - zingplex 10y ago
      My apologies for the unwarranted cynicism, I was not aware.
- djrogers 10y ago
  > Apple has a history of making false promises in regards to open sourcing products No, not true at all. iMessage was never promised, mentioned, or even hinted at being open source. Also, on the FaceTime from they said that the underlying protocols would be submitted to standards bodies as an open standard - that's a completely different things from open source. And the reasons that Apple didn't wind up doing that are well known (lawsuit from patent trolls). Sounds like you have an axe to grind or only listen to people who do...
ptx 10y ago
It says they plan to document and publish the volume format but nothing about the source code of the implementation. It being "not available at this time" doesn't necessarily imply that it will be available in the future.
- duskwuff 10y ago
  I'd imagine the implementation will show up in the next appropriate XNU kernel release.
  - cmurf 10y ago
    Neither the format nor implementation of Core Storage is documented by Apple. Near as I can tell not even an fs magic number is documented, i.e an offset and a signature that makes it possible to identify Core Storage physical volumes.
loeg 10y ago
That's awesome.
lewisl9029 10y ago
Would it be wishful thinking to hope Microsoft would follow suit by open sourcing ReFS?

sirn 10y ago

Source of the quote is this page: https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/documentation/FileManagement/Conceptual/APFS_Guide/UsingtheAppleFileSystem/UsingtheAppleFileSystem.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/TP40016999-CH4-SW1 https://developer.apple.com/library/prerelease/content/docum... Releasing a new filesystem is already surprising. And they plan to open-source it. Huh.

anc84 10y ago

Free software and patent-free or whatever some lawyers call "open"?

skrause 10y ago
They said "publish the APFS volume format". So that can mean just documentation and not code at all.
- Retra 10y ago
  Published code doesn't mean 'open' either. You need rights to the code, not merely access to it.

zingplex 10y ago

Just like they promised to open source FaceTime and iMessages? Apple has a history of making false promises in regards to open sourcing products.

macintux 10y ago
I don't recall any promises around iMessage, and FaceTime fell victim to patents.
wrigby 10y ago
My understanding was that FaceTime and iMessage weren't open sourced because of issues related to a patent troll (VirnetX IIRC). I'd be interested in hearing from others that are more familiar with the situation.
- MBCook 10y ago
  Not only that, but apparently Steve Jobs decided to just say that on stage and while it had been discussed a bit it wasn't the plan and came as a total shock to the people involved.
- pluckytree 10y ago
  Or perhaps concern with having to deal with 3rd party iMessage/Facetime clients while at the same time trying to maintain a high level of security. Apple doesn’t want anything to tarnish the security reputation of these products.
Jerry2 10y ago
> FaceTime They got sued heavily for it. They had to completely change the implementation and it became a non-P2P video chat.
qmr 10y ago
Not sure why you're being downvoted. Too many fanboys I guess. I would hope the community is more enlightened than that.
- matthewmacleod 10y ago
  Because it's just kind of lazy and incorrect, that's why. Apple did promise to open FaceTime, and was promptly sued – that's why it's not open. AFAIK there was no promise to open iMessage.
  - zingplex 10y ago
    My apologies for the unwarranted cynicism, I was not aware.
djrogers 10y ago
> Apple has a history of making false promises in regards to open sourcing products No, not true at all. iMessage was never promised, mentioned, or even hinted at being open source. Also, on the FaceTime from they said that the underlying protocols would be submitted to standards bodies as an open standard - that's a completely different things from open source. And the reasons that Apple didn't wind up doing that are well known (lawsuit from patent trolls). Sounds like you have an axe to grind or only listen to people who do...

ptx 10y ago

It says they plan to document and publish the volume format but nothing about the source code of the implementation. It being "not available at this time" doesn't necessarily imply that it will be available in the future.

duskwuff 10y ago
I'd imagine the implementation will show up in the next appropriate XNU kernel release.
- cmurf 10y ago
  Neither the format nor implementation of Core Storage is documented by Apple. Near as I can tell not even an fs magic number is documented, i.e an offset and a signature that makes it possible to identify Core Storage physical volumes.

loeg 10y ago

That's awesome.

lewisl9029 10y ago

Would it be wishful thinking to hope Microsoft would follow suit by open sourcing ReFS?