4 ms·

I'm a huge fan of f1 but I think this article is a bit disingenuous. f1 engines are hundreds of times more expensive than normal engines, and they are only desi

by nopzor 10y ago

I'm a huge fan of f1 but I think this article is a bit disingenuous. f1 engines are hundreds of times more expensive than normal engines, and they are only designed to run for a few hours before needing to be replaced completely.

k-mcgrady 10y ago
>> "they are only designed to run for a few hours before needing to be replaced completely." That's wrong. An F1 engine has to do about 800 miles/1200km based on current rules. In testing over 4 days Mercedes completed about 2000 miles and I believe that was without an engine change. Obviously these numbers are much less than a person would drive in a year but significantly more than a couple of hours. I'm sure they could be designed to go longer and be continue to be efficient of necessary too as rules have forced this change over the years.
- tremon 10y ago
  Ooh, over a thousand kilometers you say? Yes, that's definitely much closer to the 300,000km a regular car engine achieves than the GP was suggesting.
  - w0utert 10y ago
    I really fail to see how the planned lifetime of F1 engines is related to its potential fuel efficiency. If anything, I would expect the engines could be made even more efficient if they were designed to last 300.000 miles, at the expense of power output. I find it hard to believe that tuning an engine so far it will wear down quickly will improve it's efficiency.
    - Ensorceled 10y ago
      This is genius! You should go to Ford, GM, etc. and explain how they can just take the techniques from the F1 engine and tune it to really improve their cars mileage. Clearly their engineers have thought that yet!
    - nopzor 10y ago
      An F1 engine doesn't even have a starter. It's made out of exotic material. It runs at 18,000+ rpm, and idles at what most car engines would redline at! The entire car can weigh no less than ~1500lb, including the driver! Making the engine last longer would likely require a huge increase in weight, which would reduce efficiency.
      - pmontra 10y ago
        The new combustion engines are limited to 15,000 rpm. They usually stay well below the limit because of limitations on fuel amount (100 kg per race). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines
    - pmontra 10y ago
      The new regulations mandate 100 kg of fuel per race, so they had to improve efficiency. I think none of us really cares about that extra mile per gallon or km per liter when chosing a car. I mean, beetween 20 or 21 km per liter maybe how the car looks is the selling factor. In racing winning is everything.
  - exDM69 10y ago
    It's a lot for a racing engine. Back in the 80s they had four engines per car per weekend. They'd put in a higher powered engine for qualifying on Saturday, drive it for 4 or 5 laps and swap in a new one for race day. You just can't compare racing engines to road car engines. A race engine idles at the same revs as a road car redlines.
- nopzor 10y ago
  The average speed of F1 is well over 100mph. So current FIA regs call for an 8 hours of life, right? I guess I should have said "several" instead of a "few". I did not say a "couple" ;) Also, they could be designed to go longer but they'd be a lot heavier. That would negatively impact the energy efficiency. Again I'm a huge fan of F1. From an engineering and $$ standpoint it's amazing. Doesn't make the article any less disingenuous though.

by nopzor 10y ago

k-mcgrady 10y ago

>> "they are only designed to run for a few hours before needing to be replaced completely." That's wrong. An F1 engine has to do about 800 miles/1200km based on current rules. In testing over 4 days Mercedes completed about 2000 miles and I believe that was without an engine change. Obviously these numbers are much less than a person would drive in a year but significantly more than a couple of hours. I'm sure they could be designed to go longer and be continue to be efficient of necessary too as rules have forced this change over the years.

tremon 10y ago
Ooh, over a thousand kilometers you say? Yes, that's definitely much closer to the 300,000km a regular car engine achieves than the GP was suggesting.
- w0utert 10y ago
  I really fail to see how the planned lifetime of F1 engines is related to its potential fuel efficiency. If anything, I would expect the engines could be made even more efficient if they were designed to last 300.000 miles, at the expense of power output. I find it hard to believe that tuning an engine so far it will wear down quickly will improve it's efficiency.
  - Ensorceled 10y ago
    This is genius! You should go to Ford, GM, etc. and explain how they can just take the techniques from the F1 engine and tune it to really improve their cars mileage. Clearly their engineers have thought that yet!
  - nopzor 10y ago
    An F1 engine doesn't even have a starter. It's made out of exotic material. It runs at 18,000+ rpm, and idles at what most car engines would redline at! The entire car can weigh no less than ~1500lb, including the driver! Making the engine last longer would likely require a huge increase in weight, which would reduce efficiency.
    - pmontra 10y ago
      The new combustion engines are limited to 15,000 rpm. They usually stay well below the limit because of limitations on fuel amount (100 kg per race). https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Formula_One_engines
  - pmontra 10y ago
    The new regulations mandate 100 kg of fuel per race, so they had to improve efficiency. I think none of us really cares about that extra mile per gallon or km per liter when chosing a car. I mean, beetween 20 or 21 km per liter maybe how the car looks is the selling factor. In racing winning is everything.
- exDM69 10y ago
  It's a lot for a racing engine. Back in the 80s they had four engines per car per weekend. They'd put in a higher powered engine for qualifying on Saturday, drive it for 4 or 5 laps and swap in a new one for race day. You just can't compare racing engines to road car engines. A race engine idles at the same revs as a road car redlines.
nopzor 10y ago
The average speed of F1 is well over 100mph. So current FIA regs call for an 8 hours of life, right? I guess I should have said "several" instead of a "few". I did not say a "couple" ;) Also, they could be designed to go longer but they'd be a lot heavier. That would negatively impact the energy efficiency. Again I'm a huge fan of F1. From an engineering and $$ standpoint it's amazing. Doesn't make the article any less disingenuous though.