11 ms·

What would it cost Apple to make iPhones in the U.S.?

58 points by drewvolpe 10y ago

bdcravens 10y ago
"Donald Trump says that if he becomes president, he will “get Apple to start making their computers and their iPhones on our land, not in China.”" Perhaps Trump's next construction should be 100% American as well, as opposed to his previous ones: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-tower-was-built-on-undocumented-immigrants-backs.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-tower...
- MajorLOL 10y ago
  You got me. I admit, I clicked wondering what aspect of the construction was done off-shore. Then I realized it wasn't.
  - daveguy 10y ago
    Yup. Not done off-shore. Just using illegal immigrants. That shouldn't surprise anyone. As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected.
    - bdcravens 10y ago
      > As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. That's his qualification to be sure. However, he's running on a platform where he wouldn't afford others the opportunity to do the same. > I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected. They always do.
  - bdcravens 10y ago
    The article linked in submission isn't purely about off-shoring; it compares different level of an AmeriPhone: assembled here, parts from here, and source materials from here, detailing cost and practicality along the way. I seriously doubt that "assembled in America by illegal immigrants" would be in the spirit of Trump's request of Apple, even though that's how he attained the wealth to put himself in the position to make that request.
aninteger 10y ago
I thought that Trump's idea (Scenario 4?) was to raise the import/tariff fee so that it would essentially cost the same regardless of where it was manufactured. Another option would be to eliminate things like NAFTA. I'm not saying these are good ideas (in fact they may be terrible), I just want to point out additional scenarios.
- WalterBright 10y ago
  A better approach would be to make it attractive to operate in the US.
  - adventured 10y ago
    I don't support Trump's plans regarding tariffs / trade, however he is also supporting slashing the extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate. Doing that - bringing it down to levels comparable to European rivals - would instantly make the US a lot more attractive to operate in. And unfortunately while Bill Clinton strongly supports slashing the corporate tax rate, Hillary is just as strongly opposed to doing so.
    - dba7dba 10y ago
      > extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate I'm hearing actual tax rate in real life is not that high, because of all loopholes used by the corporations.
      - snowwrestler 10y ago
        The actual rate is lower because corporations keep so much capital off shore because the nominal rate is so high.
    - WalterBright 10y ago
      An economic policy based on punishing businesses is not going to work well in the long term.
wonkaWonka 10y ago
According to King at the Ames Lab, an iPhone has about 75 elements in it, two-thirds of the periodic table. I'm really going to need some percentages of mass here. The thing that lands in the box. Not the catalysts, and substances required for processes used during manufacture. If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list. 01. H (1) Hydrogen 02. He (2) Helium 03. Li (3) Lithium 04. B (5) Boron 05. C (6) Carbon 06. N (7) Nitrogen 07. O (8) Oxygen 08. F (9) Flourine 09. Na (11) Sodium 10. Mg (12) Magnesium 11. Al (13) Aluminum 12. Si (14) Silicon 13. P (15) Phosphorus 14. S (16) Sulfur 15. Cl (17) Chlorine 16. Ca (20) Calcium 17. Sc (21) Scandium 18. Ti (22) Titanium 19. V (23) Vanadium 20. Cr (24) Chromium 21. Mn (25) Manganese 22. Fe (26) Iron 23. Co (27) Cobalt 24. Ni (28) Nickel 25. Cu (29) Copper 26. Zn (30) Zinc 27. Ga (31) Gallium 28. Ge (32) Germanium 29. As (33) Arsenic 30. Se (34) Selenium 31. Br (35) Bromine 32. Sr (38) Strontium 33. Y (39) Yttrium 34. Zr (40) Zirconium 35. Nb (41) Niobium 36. Mo (42) Molybdenum 37. Ru (44) Ruthenium 38. Rh (45) Rhodium 39. Pd (46) Palladium 40. Ag (47) Silver 41. Cd (48) Cadmium 42. In (49) Indium 43. Sn (50) Tin 44. Sb (51) Antimony 45. Te (52) Tellurium 46. Ba (56) Barium 47. La (57) Lanthanum 48. Hf (72) Hafnium 49. Ta (73) Tantalum 50. W (74) Tungsten 51. Re (75) Rhenium 52. Os (76) Osmium 53. Ir (77) Iridium 54. Pt (78) Platinum 55. Au (79) Gold 56. Hg (80) Mercury 57. Tl (81) Thallium 58. Bi (83) Bismuth 59. Po (84) Polonium 60. Rn (86) Radon 61. Ce (58) Cerium 62. Pr (59) Praseodymium 63. Nd (60) Neodymium 64. Sm (61) Promethium 65. Eu (63) Europium 66. Gd (64) Gadolinium 67. Tb (65) Terbium 68. Dy (66) Dysprosium 69. Ho (67) Holmium 70. Er (68) Erbium 71. Tm (69) Thulium 72. Yb (70) Ytterbium 73. Lu (71) Lutetium Some of those I'm not buying into.
- jean_claude 10y ago
  I think the takeaway from his statements are that it is virtually impossible to source the necessary raw materials that go into producing modern electronics from any one country.
  - aab0 10y ago
    Some of the points are bogus, like the rare earths thing; they used to be mined in the USA just fine. But China was cheaper, especially since they didn't price in the negative externalities.
jean_claude 10y ago
It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quote from article: Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight. A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day. “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”
- dba7dba 10y ago
  > “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.
  - orionblastar 10y ago
    Yet. Using cross training on the assembly line basically teach everyone all the positions on the assembly line can cut down on costs and improve quality. Use robots for the hard stuff, use people for the sensitive stuff that needs human hands.
    - dba7dba 10y ago
      I'm mostly concerned about waking up 8000 workers middle of the night, and making them work the following 12 hours, because of screw up by someone above them. And the fact that the American Apple executive admires it with the terms of flexibility and such.
Longwelwind 10y ago
I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). These jobs are becoming obsolete, and delocalizing to countries with lower labor costs is only a step before factories become fully automated (and some companies are reshoring because robots are becoming cheaper than outshore workers). The workers here that are left with no job and no marketable skills should be manifesting for an UMI instead of asking to politics & companies to keep the factories here.
- Alphasite_ 10y ago
  Because you want to be the one holding the factories when the end game hits.
  - Teever 10y ago
    This seems to be the thing that everyone is missing in this conversation. I agree with you but I've been wondering for a while if it's not a bad idea for the west to pass the tedious stuff off to China to use their labour to build our own automated factory. It seems risky though.
- riprowan 10y ago
  > I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). Because countries that cannot source their own weaponry become the pawns of those who can.
- ddebernardy 10y ago
  To keep the design expertise in-house. Or as aptly put in this piece: > He had subsequently watched its commercial aircraft business outsource itself to death. A key problem was that designers became so out of touch that they no longer understood basic manufacturing realities. http://www.fingleton.net/boeing-goes-to-pieces/ http://www.fingleton.net/boeing-goes-to-pieces/

58 points by drewvolpe 10y ago

"Donald Trump says that if he becomes president, he will “get Apple to start making their computers and their iPhones on our land, not in China.”" Perhaps Trump's next construction should be 100% American as well, as opposed to his previous ones: http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-tower-was-built-on-undocumented-immigrants-backs.html http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/07/08/trump-tower...

MajorLOL 10y ago
You got me. I admit, I clicked wondering what aspect of the construction was done off-shore. Then I realized it wasn't.
- daveguy 10y ago
  Yup. Not done off-shore. Just using illegal immigrants. That shouldn't surprise anyone. As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected.
  - bdcravens 10y ago
    > As a businessman he would make money and cut corners any way he could and he has been proud of that throughout his campaign. That's his qualification to be sure. However, he's running on a platform where he wouldn't afford others the opportunity to do the same. > I'm sure he will change and be more presidential after elected. They always do.
- bdcravens 10y ago
  The article linked in submission isn't purely about off-shoring; it compares different level of an AmeriPhone: assembled here, parts from here, and source materials from here, detailing cost and practicality along the way. I seriously doubt that "assembled in America by illegal immigrants" would be in the spirit of Trump's request of Apple, even though that's how he attained the wealth to put himself in the position to make that request.

aninteger 10y ago

I thought that Trump's idea (Scenario 4?) was to raise the import/tariff fee so that it would essentially cost the same regardless of where it was manufactured. Another option would be to eliminate things like NAFTA. I'm not saying these are good ideas (in fact they may be terrible), I just want to point out additional scenarios.

WalterBright 10y ago
A better approach would be to make it attractive to operate in the US.
- adventured 10y ago
  I don't support Trump's plans regarding tariffs / trade, however he is also supporting slashing the extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate. Doing that - bringing it down to levels comparable to European rivals - would instantly make the US a lot more attractive to operate in. And unfortunately while Bill Clinton strongly supports slashing the corporate tax rate, Hillary is just as strongly opposed to doing so.
  - dba7dba 10y ago
    > extremely non-competitive US corporate tax rate I'm hearing actual tax rate in real life is not that high, because of all loopholes used by the corporations.
    - snowwrestler 10y ago
      The actual rate is lower because corporations keep so much capital off shore because the nominal rate is so high.
  - WalterBright 10y ago
    An economic policy based on punishing businesses is not going to work well in the long term.

wonkaWonka 10y ago

According to King at the Ames Lab, an iPhone has about 75 elements in it, two-thirds of the periodic table. I'm really going to need some percentages of mass here. The thing that lands in the box. Not the catalysts, and substances required for processes used during manufacture. If I'm not holding it in my hands, right now, it doesn't make the list. 01. H (1) Hydrogen 02. He (2) Helium 03. Li (3) Lithium 04. B (5) Boron 05. C (6) Carbon 06. N (7) Nitrogen 07. O (8) Oxygen 08. F (9) Flourine 09. Na (11) Sodium 10. Mg (12) Magnesium 11. Al (13) Aluminum 12. Si (14) Silicon 13. P (15) Phosphorus 14. S (16) Sulfur 15. Cl (17) Chlorine 16. Ca (20) Calcium 17. Sc (21) Scandium 18. Ti (22) Titanium 19. V (23) Vanadium 20. Cr (24) Chromium 21. Mn (25) Manganese 22. Fe (26) Iron 23. Co (27) Cobalt 24. Ni (28) Nickel 25. Cu (29) Copper 26. Zn (30) Zinc 27. Ga (31) Gallium 28. Ge (32) Germanium 29. As (33) Arsenic 30. Se (34) Selenium 31. Br (35) Bromine 32. Sr (38) Strontium 33. Y (39) Yttrium 34. Zr (40) Zirconium 35. Nb (41) Niobium 36. Mo (42) Molybdenum 37. Ru (44) Ruthenium 38. Rh (45) Rhodium 39. Pd (46) Palladium 40. Ag (47) Silver 41. Cd (48) Cadmium 42. In (49) Indium 43. Sn (50) Tin 44. Sb (51) Antimony 45. Te (52) Tellurium 46. Ba (56) Barium 47. La (57) Lanthanum 48. Hf (72) Hafnium 49. Ta (73) Tantalum 50. W (74) Tungsten 51. Re (75) Rhenium 52. Os (76) Osmium 53. Ir (77) Iridium 54. Pt (78) Platinum 55. Au (79) Gold 56. Hg (80) Mercury 57. Tl (81) Thallium 58. Bi (83) Bismuth 59. Po (84) Polonium 60. Rn (86) Radon 61. Ce (58) Cerium 62. Pr (59) Praseodymium 63. Nd (60) Neodymium 64. Sm (61) Promethium 65. Eu (63) Europium 66. Gd (64) Gadolinium 67. Tb (65) Terbium 68. Dy (66) Dysprosium 69. Ho (67) Holmium 70. Er (68) Erbium 71. Tm (69) Thulium 72. Yb (70) Ytterbium 73. Lu (71) Lutetium Some of those I'm not buying into.

jean_claude 10y ago
I think the takeaway from his statements are that it is virtually impossible to source the necessary raw materials that go into producing modern electronics from any one country.
- aab0 10y ago
  Some of the points are bogus, like the rare earths thing; they used to be mined in the USA just fine. But China was cheaper, especially since they didn't price in the negative externalities.

jean_claude 10y ago

It isn't just the cost that's an issue, it's the fact that American workers are not as... flexible... on what constitutes an acceptable work/life balance. Would you do what these workers ( http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and-a-squeezed-middle-class.html?_r=0 http://www.nytimes.com/2012/01/22/business/apple-america-and... ) do if you had any other opportunity at all? Labor laws aside, could they pay you enough to live and work like this and still make an affordable device? Relevant quote from article: Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight. A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day. “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.”

dba7dba 10y ago
> “The speed and flexibility is breathtaking,” the executive said. “There’s no American plant that can match that.” Extreme sugar coating with MBA lingos of forced labor camp. I am GLAD there's no such American plant.
- orionblastar 10y ago
  Yet. Using cross training on the assembly line basically teach everyone all the positions on the assembly line can cut down on costs and improve quality. Use robots for the hard stuff, use people for the sensitive stuff that needs human hands.
  - dba7dba 10y ago
    I'm mostly concerned about waking up 8000 workers middle of the night, and making them work the following 12 hours, because of screw up by someone above them. And the fact that the American Apple executive admires it with the terms of flexibility and such.

Longwelwind 10y ago

I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). These jobs are becoming obsolete, and delocalizing to countries with lower labor costs is only a step before factories become fully automated (and some companies are reshoring because robots are becoming cheaper than outshore workers). The workers here that are left with no job and no marketable skills should be manifesting for an UMI instead of asking to politics & companies to keep the factories here.

Alphasite_ 10y ago
Because you want to be the one holding the factories when the end game hits.
- Teever 10y ago
  This seems to be the thing that everyone is missing in this conversation. I agree with you but I've been wondering for a while if it's not a bad idea for the west to pass the tedious stuff off to China to use their labour to build our own automated factory. It seems risky though.
riprowan 10y ago
> I don't know why we want so hard to bring these jobs back (the same way we always try to keep the metallurgic industry in Europe). Because countries that cannot source their own weaponry become the pawns of those who can.
ddebernardy 10y ago
To keep the design expertise in-house. Or as aptly put in this piece: > He had subsequently watched its commercial aircraft business outsource itself to death. A key problem was that designers became so out of touch that they no longer understood basic manufacturing realities. http://www.fingleton.net/boeing-goes-to-pieces/ http://www.fingleton.net/boeing-goes-to-pieces/