7 ms·

Tell the employee that you think it's a good idea and setup a plan to get them there with objective goals and touch back in 6-12 months. If he doesn't succeed i

by bko 10y ago

Tell the employee that you think it's a good idea and setup a plan to get them there with objective goals and touch back in 6-12 months. If he doesn't succeed in meeting those objectives, you didn't lose anything and you could point to it in not giving him the new title/promotion. If he does succeed, then you got more out of him. You could turn this around to be a positive growing experience.

toomuchtodo 10y ago
Quality post, considering the alternative is OP says no, and employee immediately starts looking for another job.
- joezydeco 10y ago
  The employee might start looking anyway if the answer is "wait a year" and there are better title/pay options available to them on the open market.
  - 1337biz 10y ago
    Exactly my situation. First thing I did when I got home was start rewriting my CV and putting together a list of potential leads in competitor firms. You better have something amazing to offer if you think you can 'motivate' me to work my ass of for a year just to change one word in my title.
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
    - codeddesign 10y ago
      I love this..."motivate me". They gave you a job, they pay your salary...but hey! "You must motivate me if you want me to allow you to continue doing that!" Get off your high horse and do your job instead of running off because someone didn't give you a pep talk. In reality it all comes down to mutual respect and relationships. If management and employees respect each other then there is dialogue. If not, then it's probably either a bad environment or bad team relationship and the employee should move on elsewhere. Be honest, set achievable goals, and build team relationships. For those that are thinking "quite and get better money elsewhere" I feel sorry for you. That simply means you you could careless where you work as long as you get paid...in other words 70% of your time in life is going to be in misery...but good luck!
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > That simply means you you could careless where you work as long as you get paid...in other words 70% of your time in life is going to be in misery...but good luck! I don't come to work to be fulfilled. I come to work to be paid.
        cmdrfred 10y ago
        Exactly, if I came to work to be fulfilled I'd work with disadvantaged children or something unfortunately that doesn't pay the mortgage.
      - UK-AL 10y ago
        Your assumption is that the current place awesome, and there are no better places to work. There's always a better place to work, and not only from a money perspective If your bored to the point, where you want more responsibilities it's time to move on. Your not learning or growing. Your biding time.
      - sheepmullet 10y ago
        If management underpays me significantly compared to market then there isn't mutual respect. If management doesn't want to support my career progression then there isn't mutual respect. But I'm not enough of a sucker to plead for it. If it's not provided I'll go and get another job.
        yitchelle 10y ago
        Mutual respect goes both ways. If you discovered that you are paid way over market rates, do you say "hey, you are paying me too much, but I will work my ass off to give you the right value"
        cmdrfred 10y ago
        Sure, to an employer who goes to employees and says "Hey market value for this position has gone crazy in the last year, here's a raise to bring you back in line with that" without prompting. I haven't met them yet.
    - acafourek 10y ago
      There is a big difference between "wait a year" and "here are tangible goals, action steps and valuable skills to develop by accepting X, Y and Z responsibilities. At Time A and Time B, let's review and make incremental advancements toward your title and salary goals". If you aren't willing to stick it out through the latter, you're probably doing the manager a favor in the long term by shopping that CV around.
      - sheepmullet 10y ago
        Honestly, there really isn't a big difference at all unless you are willing to put concrete numbers forward in writing. I've worked at a small business that put 15% annual pay rises into my contract. Thats meaningful. And I busted my ass of for them for close to a decade.
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      Yeah, sorry, that's how the world works. Why am I going to give you more responsibility if I'm not sure that you can handle it? Do the job, get the job. You come off as extremely entitled. Honestly, I'd be happy that you left.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > You come off as extremely entitled. Honestly, I'd be happy that you left. Easy to say, hard when its a sellers market. Maybe when the tech labor market softens? Otherwise, you see a 10-20% bump by moving immediately, rather than wasting a year of your life making less than you could.
        EpicEng 10y ago
        Sure, if I really needed you. I'd also be looking to ditch you as soon as I could. I'd also be suspect of any resume which shows a tendency for frequent job hopping.
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > Sure, if I really needed you. I'd also be looking to ditch you as soon as I could. Sounds like you'd be doing you're subordinate a favor.
        cmdrfred 10y ago
        I remember when looking for a new job was considered bettering yourself. Now you are labeled as one of those assholes who wants to be paid for his work.
        EpicEng 10y ago
        I think my intent has been lost along the way here. Look to the original post I responded to; this is a person who doesn't want to put in any of the up front work typically required to get a promotion with increased responsibility.
codeonfire 10y ago
This is basically how the game is played. The other half is that managers hire their unqualified friends into those same high level positions no questions asked. No hoops. no career development carrot and stick bullshit. Welcome to office politics. You are a fool if you jump through the hoops. Smart employees will just go get the job they want somewhere else.
- raincom 10y ago
  This is how even senior management positions are filled.
  - randycupertino 10y ago
    I had my first and last experience ever working for a family owned business where the 3 daughters of the owner (straight out of USC) were hired to be the "Directors" of their own departments... with no employees. These girls had nothing to do so they started killing time making insane mandatory dress codes, spirit events and MANDATORY halloween costume and cubicle decorating contests. They drove company Porsches and took private jets to golf tournaments with clients. When they brought in the daughters boyfriend got brought in to be the biz dev guy, who also went to USC and also had no experience other than being the "biz dev" guy of his father's chain of carwashes... He told me one day he was going to "dev the shit out of some biz" .... I put in my notice. I think I still have PTSD from working there.
NetStrikeForce 10y ago
This is the right and fair for everyone thing to do. If the employee feels they've been giving too much before now and they are owed a promotion or monetary reward I'm afraid they did it wrong. This is based on my own experience in different work places: You never offer your skills in advance without a clear and objective promotion/development plan in place - even though, it's still a risky bet. Of course you could still do it if you're in it for other rewards (glory, respect, fun, work/life balance). Once you have worked your ass off, they know you can do it for less, so what's the incentive on giving you anything extra? Keeping you around? No one is irreplaceable. There has to be development in place, so the employer feels they're making you better, which in place brings them more money to their pockets. Otherwise they'll just squeeze you like a lemon, which is actually their job. Ninja edit: Actually, touching back in 6-12 months is NOT the right thing to do. You should setup monthly one-on-one meetings to follow up on her progress and fine tune anything that's not going as expected. What you want is an employee that improves and ideally overperforms, you don't want to just not pay more - that's not a recipe for success.

by bko 10y ago

toomuchtodo 10y ago

Quality post, considering the alternative is OP says no, and employee immediately starts looking for another job.

joezydeco 10y ago
The employee might start looking anyway if the answer is "wait a year" and there are better title/pay options available to them on the open market.
- 1337biz 10y ago
  Exactly my situation. First thing I did when I got home was start rewriting my CV and putting together a list of potential leads in competitor firms. You better have something amazing to offer if you think you can 'motivate' me to work my ass of for a year just to change one word in my title.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - codeddesign 10y ago
    I love this..."motivate me". They gave you a job, they pay your salary...but hey! "You must motivate me if you want me to allow you to continue doing that!" Get off your high horse and do your job instead of running off because someone didn't give you a pep talk. In reality it all comes down to mutual respect and relationships. If management and employees respect each other then there is dialogue. If not, then it's probably either a bad environment or bad team relationship and the employee should move on elsewhere. Be honest, set achievable goals, and build team relationships. For those that are thinking "quite and get better money elsewhere" I feel sorry for you. That simply means you you could careless where you work as long as you get paid...in other words 70% of your time in life is going to be in misery...but good luck!
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > That simply means you you could careless where you work as long as you get paid...in other words 70% of your time in life is going to be in misery...but good luck! I don't come to work to be fulfilled. I come to work to be paid.
      - cmdrfred 10y ago
        Exactly, if I came to work to be fulfilled I'd work with disadvantaged children or something unfortunately that doesn't pay the mortgage.
    - UK-AL 10y ago
      Your assumption is that the current place awesome, and there are no better places to work. There's always a better place to work, and not only from a money perspective If your bored to the point, where you want more responsibilities it's time to move on. Your not learning or growing. Your biding time.
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      If management underpays me significantly compared to market then there isn't mutual respect. If management doesn't want to support my career progression then there isn't mutual respect. But I'm not enough of a sucker to plead for it. If it's not provided I'll go and get another job.
      - yitchelle 10y ago
        Mutual respect goes both ways. If you discovered that you are paid way over market rates, do you say "hey, you are paying me too much, but I will work my ass off to give you the right value"
        cmdrfred 10y ago
        Sure, to an employer who goes to employees and says "Hey market value for this position has gone crazy in the last year, here's a raise to bring you back in line with that" without prompting. I haven't met them yet.
  - acafourek 10y ago
    There is a big difference between "wait a year" and "here are tangible goals, action steps and valuable skills to develop by accepting X, Y and Z responsibilities. At Time A and Time B, let's review and make incremental advancements toward your title and salary goals". If you aren't willing to stick it out through the latter, you're probably doing the manager a favor in the long term by shopping that CV around.
    - sheepmullet 10y ago
      Honestly, there really isn't a big difference at all unless you are willing to put concrete numbers forward in writing. I've worked at a small business that put 15% annual pay rises into my contract. Thats meaningful. And I busted my ass of for them for close to a decade.
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    Yeah, sorry, that's how the world works. Why am I going to give you more responsibility if I'm not sure that you can handle it? Do the job, get the job. You come off as extremely entitled. Honestly, I'd be happy that you left.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      > You come off as extremely entitled. Honestly, I'd be happy that you left. Easy to say, hard when its a sellers market. Maybe when the tech labor market softens? Otherwise, you see a 10-20% bump by moving immediately, rather than wasting a year of your life making less than you could.
      - EpicEng 10y ago
        Sure, if I really needed you. I'd also be looking to ditch you as soon as I could. I'd also be suspect of any resume which shows a tendency for frequent job hopping.
        toomuchtodo 10y ago
        > Sure, if I really needed you. I'd also be looking to ditch you as soon as I could. Sounds like you'd be doing you're subordinate a favor.
        cmdrfred 10y ago
        I remember when looking for a new job was considered bettering yourself. Now you are labeled as one of those assholes who wants to be paid for his work.
        EpicEng 10y ago
        I think my intent has been lost along the way here. Look to the original post I responded to; this is a person who doesn't want to put in any of the up front work typically required to get a promotion with increased responsibility.

codeonfire 10y ago

This is basically how the game is played. The other half is that managers hire their unqualified friends into those same high level positions no questions asked. No hoops. no career development carrot and stick bullshit. Welcome to office politics. You are a fool if you jump through the hoops. Smart employees will just go get the job they want somewhere else.

raincom 10y ago
This is how even senior management positions are filled.
- randycupertino 10y ago
  I had my first and last experience ever working for a family owned business where the 3 daughters of the owner (straight out of USC) were hired to be the "Directors" of their own departments... with no employees. These girls had nothing to do so they started killing time making insane mandatory dress codes, spirit events and MANDATORY halloween costume and cubicle decorating contests. They drove company Porsches and took private jets to golf tournaments with clients. When they brought in the daughters boyfriend got brought in to be the biz dev guy, who also went to USC and also had no experience other than being the "biz dev" guy of his father's chain of carwashes... He told me one day he was going to "dev the shit out of some biz" .... I put in my notice. I think I still have PTSD from working there.

NetStrikeForce 10y ago

This is the right and fair for everyone thing to do. If the employee feels they've been giving too much before now and they are owed a promotion or monetary reward I'm afraid they did it wrong. This is based on my own experience in different work places: You never offer your skills in advance without a clear and objective promotion/development plan in place - even though, it's still a risky bet. Of course you could still do it if you're in it for other rewards (glory, respect, fun, work/life balance). Once you have worked your ass off, they know you can do it for less, so what's the incentive on giving you anything extra? Keeping you around? No one is irreplaceable. There has to be development in place, so the employer feels they're making you better, which in place brings them more money to their pockets. Otherwise they'll just squeeze you like a lemon, which is actually their job. Ninja edit: Actually, touching back in 6-12 months is NOT the right thing to do. You should setup monthly one-on-one meetings to follow up on her progress and fine tune anything that's not going as expected. What you want is an employee that improves and ideally overperforms, you don't want to just not pay more - that's not a recipe for success.