4 ms·

tl;dr: "The foremost reason was intimidation by police," he says. "Oftentimes if you assist someone the police will assume you're helping that person out of gu

by Gys 10y ago

tl;dr: "The foremost reason was intimidation by police," he says. "Oftentimes if you assist someone the police will assume you're helping that person out of guilt." Apart from the fear of being falsely implicated, people also worried about becoming trapped as a witness in a court case - legal proceedings can be notoriously protracted in India. And if they helped the victim get to hospital, they feared coming under pressure to stump up fees for medical treatment.

Dylan16807 10y ago
You're missing the section at the end about hospitals refusing treatment when someone's brought in by a stranger that won't be paying.
- wmt 10y ago
  I wonder how does that even work? If someone drops in an injured person and leaves, will the hospital just let the injured person die on the floor? If bystanders doing nothing raises headlines in India, I'd imagine hospitals doing that would be an even bigger scandal.
  - shripadk 10y ago
    I can confirm this. Hospitals don't treat unless the injured person's relative(s) sign legal papers. The general rule of thumb in India is that one should always carry at least an ID proof (better yet an insurance policy) so that in case of an accident the hospital can contact the relative.
    - mikeash 10y ago
      This is what a true free-market health care system looks like. I always wonder about this when I see people arguing against socialized medicine. Should accident victims be left to die like this? Any answer besides "yes" implies some sort of government intervention. In the US, since 1986, ERs must treat everyone. This basically gave us a really bizarre socialized medicine system with horribly inefficient funding and procedures.
      - ars 10y ago
        It used to be that charitable societies setup funds within hospitals to pay for such people. If they were able to bill insurance, or the person, later, then the fund would be replenished. So it is possible to say "yes" and not have government involved.
        mikeash 10y ago
        So when we take a look at societies that actually do it this way, such as India today or the USA before 1986, why do we find hospitals dumping patients who can't pay?
        shripadk 10y ago
        That exists in India in the form of societies like Lions Club, Rotary Club etc. However, the number of hospitals that are supported by these charitable societies are understandably smaller in comparison to the number of private hospitals.
    - mcguire 10y ago
      That sounds more scandalous than roadside bystanders.
    - lenkite 10y ago
      I double-confirm this, but with the exception of charity and government hospitals. There are several such hospitals in every major metropolitan city in India. Of course, the 'nearest' hospital may not be one such. The private hospitals operate on pure capitalism and patients who cannot pay are always delayed and then later declared as brought dead on arrival (DOA).
  - nashashmi 10y ago
    Yeah, hospitals and doctors won't admit. A quick story in Pakistan: A brain surgeon had a lot of success doing brain surgeries and received much fame, award, and status worldwide, and even though he started out modestly helping the poor and less fortunate, fame and greed got to him, and he became more demanding in terms of payment. Well, a man brought in a young individual involved in a car accident who had received a big blow to the brain to the hospital where the doctor worked. The young man was a passerby to the accident and a complete stranger. He begged and pleaded this world famous doctor at the hospital to operate, but the doctor wanted payment. He eventually offered his own car keys as a security deposit for the time being while he would try to raise money in other ways. The doctor accepted the security deposit and began to operate. It was too late, however, because when the doctor opened the curtain he found the injured individual to be his son about to take his last breath. The doctor went insane and died.
    - andai 10y ago
      Now if that isn't karma I don't know what is
    - gohrt 10y ago
      Are you claiming this story is true? Was this story ever documented? It has all the looks of an "urban legend"
      - nashashmi 10y ago
        I know it sounds that way especially with the last line, and I have been trying to find some documentation to back it up, but no luck. However, the story is true. The story is known with relative popularity in Pakistan including the name of the doctor, which escapes my mind.
personlurking 10y ago
While I haven't been to Japan, a documentary [1] on expats living in Japan had a part (if my memory serves me) where the same sentiment was expressed, ie, "don't involve yourself". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNYOW0_kms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNYOW0_kms PS - Even if my memory is from another source regarding Japan, the documentary showed me a lot I didn't know.
- mikekchar 10y ago
  I've only watched the first 20 minutes of the documentary, but I'm impressed. It's probably one of the most accurate portrayals of what it's like to be a foreigner living long term in Japan that I've seen. Like always, documentary directors usually like to be controversial, so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop ;-) In terms of "don't involve yourself", I wouldn't say that's really true. The very few times I've seen anyone in trouble, people have rushed to come to their aid. I live in the countryside, though, so it might be different than the big city. Social duty is a big part of Japanese culture, though, so I can't really imagine people ignoring others in distress. As a brief diversion, I recently went to Tokyo and was surprised by how many more homeless people there are now than there were roughly 10 years ago. People seem inured to that kind of distress (as they are in any big city, I guess), which is too bad.
  - personlurking 10y ago
    Thanks for your comment. The sentiment I recall is, for instance, related to a thief that's running away after having just stolen a purse and you have the ability to stop him. It was said in regards to big city living and making yourself part of the act in some manner, where you might get pulled into the police station to make a statement and spend hours on something you didn't want to be a part of. Again, I've never set foot in the country, so I can't say either way. Another smaller example might be someone is talking on their cell phone on the train, and thus a Japanese person wouldn't go up to the one yapping on the phone to tell them it's rude, per Japanese standards.
    - mikekchar 10y ago

by Gys 10y ago

Dylan16807 10y ago

You're missing the section at the end about hospitals refusing treatment when someone's brought in by a stranger that won't be paying.

wmt 10y ago
I wonder how does that even work? If someone drops in an injured person and leaves, will the hospital just let the injured person die on the floor? If bystanders doing nothing raises headlines in India, I'd imagine hospitals doing that would be an even bigger scandal.
- shripadk 10y ago
  I can confirm this. Hospitals don't treat unless the injured person's relative(s) sign legal papers. The general rule of thumb in India is that one should always carry at least an ID proof (better yet an insurance policy) so that in case of an accident the hospital can contact the relative.
  - mikeash 10y ago
    This is what a true free-market health care system looks like. I always wonder about this when I see people arguing against socialized medicine. Should accident victims be left to die like this? Any answer besides "yes" implies some sort of government intervention. In the US, since 1986, ERs must treat everyone. This basically gave us a really bizarre socialized medicine system with horribly inefficient funding and procedures.
    - ars 10y ago
      It used to be that charitable societies setup funds within hospitals to pay for such people. If they were able to bill insurance, or the person, later, then the fund would be replenished. So it is possible to say "yes" and not have government involved.
      - mikeash 10y ago
        So when we take a look at societies that actually do it this way, such as India today or the USA before 1986, why do we find hospitals dumping patients who can't pay?
      - shripadk 10y ago
        That exists in India in the form of societies like Lions Club, Rotary Club etc. However, the number of hospitals that are supported by these charitable societies are understandably smaller in comparison to the number of private hospitals.
  - mcguire 10y ago
    That sounds more scandalous than roadside bystanders.
  - lenkite 10y ago
    I double-confirm this, but with the exception of charity and government hospitals. There are several such hospitals in every major metropolitan city in India. Of course, the 'nearest' hospital may not be one such. The private hospitals operate on pure capitalism and patients who cannot pay are always delayed and then later declared as brought dead on arrival (DOA).
- nashashmi 10y ago
  Yeah, hospitals and doctors won't admit. A quick story in Pakistan: A brain surgeon had a lot of success doing brain surgeries and received much fame, award, and status worldwide, and even though he started out modestly helping the poor and less fortunate, fame and greed got to him, and he became more demanding in terms of payment. Well, a man brought in a young individual involved in a car accident who had received a big blow to the brain to the hospital where the doctor worked. The young man was a passerby to the accident and a complete stranger. He begged and pleaded this world famous doctor at the hospital to operate, but the doctor wanted payment. He eventually offered his own car keys as a security deposit for the time being while he would try to raise money in other ways. The doctor accepted the security deposit and began to operate. It was too late, however, because when the doctor opened the curtain he found the injured individual to be his son about to take his last breath. The doctor went insane and died.
  - andai 10y ago
    Now if that isn't karma I don't know what is
  - gohrt 10y ago
    Are you claiming this story is true? Was this story ever documented? It has all the looks of an "urban legend"
    - nashashmi 10y ago
      I know it sounds that way especially with the last line, and I have been trying to find some documentation to back it up, but no luck. However, the story is true. The story is known with relative popularity in Pakistan including the name of the doctor, which escapes my mind.

personlurking 10y ago

While I haven't been to Japan, a documentary [1] on expats living in Japan had a part (if my memory serves me) where the same sentiment was expressed, ie, "don't involve yourself". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNYOW0_kms https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prNYOW0_kms PS - Even if my memory is from another source regarding Japan, the documentary showed me a lot I didn't know.

mikekchar 10y ago
I've only watched the first 20 minutes of the documentary, but I'm impressed. It's probably one of the most accurate portrayals of what it's like to be a foreigner living long term in Japan that I've seen. Like always, documentary directors usually like to be controversial, so I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop ;-) In terms of "don't involve yourself", I wouldn't say that's really true. The very few times I've seen anyone in trouble, people have rushed to come to their aid. I live in the countryside, though, so it might be different than the big city. Social duty is a big part of Japanese culture, though, so I can't really imagine people ignoring others in distress. As a brief diversion, I recently went to Tokyo and was surprised by how many more homeless people there are now than there were roughly 10 years ago. People seem inured to that kind of distress (as they are in any big city, I guess), which is too bad.
- personlurking 10y ago
  Thanks for your comment. The sentiment I recall is, for instance, related to a thief that's running away after having just stolen a purse and you have the ability to stop him. It was said in regards to big city living and making yourself part of the act in some manner, where you might get pulled into the police station to make a statement and spend hours on something you didn't want to be a part of. Again, I've never set foot in the country, so I can't say either way. Another smaller example might be someone is talking on their cell phone on the train, and thus a Japanese person wouldn't go up to the one yapping on the phone to tell them it's rude, per Japanese standards.
  - mikekchar 10y ago