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There's an Arabic saying that goes لا تسأل الطغاة لماذا طغوا , بل اسأل العبيد لماذا ركعوا Do not ask the tyrants why they tyrannised, but ask the slaves why t

There's an Arabic saying that goes لا تسأل الطغاة لماذا طغوا , بل اسأل العبيد لماذا ركعوا Do not ask the tyrants why they tyrannised, but ask the slaves why they knelt.

JadeNB 10y ago
Maybe I'm misreading you, but this seems disrespectful—to victims of tyrants in general, and to the victim of this possible prison sentence in particular—and I can't see what it adds to the discussion.
- Roboprog 10y ago
  It makes sense to me. It's not insulting, it's merely stating that you should consider your situation.
- kbenson 10y ago
  I think maybe you're stuck on a particular interpretation. A "slave" can "kneel" for many reasons, including because they don't want to see more fighting, because they don't think they can win, because they see another way to fight such as through politics, because the through to their loved ones is too large, because they think the current "tyrant" is the current best choice. Another way to word it in the interpretation I choose is "Don't ask the ruler for justification of the laws they made, ask the subjects why they followed those laws."
  - curiousgal 10y ago
    >"Don't ask the ruler for justification of the laws they made, ask the subjects why they followed those laws." That is precisely the intended interpretation of the saying.
- Dove 10y ago
  You can't be made a slave without your permission. You can be made a fugitive, a prisoner, or dead... but you can't be made a slave.
  - jandrese 10y ago
    It seems pretty dickish to blame the slave because they could have chosen to be killed instead. That's the kind of justification tyrants tell to themselves in those rare instances where their concious tingles. "It's their fault for being oppressed, they are a bunch of weak sheep, if they were real men they would have chosen to be tortured to death instead."
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    What about a child? Are they supposed to somehow know better? I can't believe you would use the word "permission" for giving in to torture. Maybe in some situations it's as simple as submitting vs. being immediately killed or imprisoned, but that's certainly not the only such situation.
  - dredmorbius 10y ago
    Blame the victim.

JadeNB 10y ago

Maybe I'm misreading you, but this seems disrespectful—to victims of tyrants in general, and to the victim of this possible prison sentence in particular—and I can't see what it adds to the discussion.

Roboprog 10y ago
It makes sense to me. It's not insulting, it's merely stating that you should consider your situation.
kbenson 10y ago
I think maybe you're stuck on a particular interpretation. A "slave" can "kneel" for many reasons, including because they don't want to see more fighting, because they don't think they can win, because they see another way to fight such as through politics, because the through to their loved ones is too large, because they think the current "tyrant" is the current best choice. Another way to word it in the interpretation I choose is "Don't ask the ruler for justification of the laws they made, ask the subjects why they followed those laws."
- curiousgal 10y ago
  >"Don't ask the ruler for justification of the laws they made, ask the subjects why they followed those laws." That is precisely the intended interpretation of the saying.
Dove 10y ago
You can't be made a slave without your permission. You can be made a fugitive, a prisoner, or dead... but you can't be made a slave.
- jandrese 10y ago
  It seems pretty dickish to blame the slave because they could have chosen to be killed instead. That's the kind of justification tyrants tell to themselves in those rare instances where their concious tingles. "It's their fault for being oppressed, they are a bunch of weak sheep, if they were real men they would have chosen to be tortured to death instead."
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  What about a child? Are they supposed to somehow know better? I can't believe you would use the word "permission" for giving in to torture. Maybe in some situations it's as simple as submitting vs. being immediately killed or imprisoned, but that's certainly not the only such situation.
- dredmorbius 10y ago
  Blame the victim.