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Forced Windows 10 Upgrade Shuts Down PC Used by Anti-Poaching Rangers in Africa

159 points by gooserock 10y ago

curiousgal 10y ago
As per the post[0], the upgrade did not crash the computer BUT it did download 6Gb of data over satellite-internet which can be quite expensive. OP is having an AMA[1]. 0.https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i... 1.https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4mirin/i_am_the_accidental_it_guy_antipoaching_pilot_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4mirin/i_am_the_accid...
- trhway 10y ago
  i wish some trial lawyers found an opportunity here for a class action against MS. Couple weeks ago one of our laptops became Win 10. May be it is better than Win 8.1, yet i still would have wanted to be a part of that decision :)
  - curiousgal 10y ago
    https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
    - trhway 10y ago
      exactly - either forced upgrade or downloading and running some utility from a site/company i see for the first time and have never heard about :)
      - TillE 10y ago
        Steve Gibson is a little strange, but he's trustworthy.
        xufi 10y ago
        Yep, I have to say the second I heard about GRC and discovered the software he made such as SpinRIte for HDD"s I was hooked
      - curiousgal 10y ago
        You can check the technical details https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm It basically does what Microsoft would do in order to keep Windows from upgrading.
      - morganvachon 10y ago
        Steve Gibson is one of the most trusted developers of the past few decades. His SpinRite software is a life saver. Please read about him before dismissing him out of hand because you've not heard of him. There's more to the world than what's inside your box.
    - dghughes 10y ago
      >Never10 does NOT prevent the installation of Windows updates, including the infamous Get Windows 10 (GWX) update KB3035583. Never10 simply employs Microsoft's documented and sanctioned configuration settings to instruct it NOT to change the installed version of Windows. That would not have helped in this situation OP stated what hurt them was the huge amount bandwidth (6GB) used on an account where they pay per MB.
      - Veratyr 10y ago
        What it actually does [0] is set group policy according to the Microsoft specified methods [1]. It would have helped in this situation as not only would Windows not have downloaded the update in the first place, it would have deleted it had it already been somehow downloaded. [0]: https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351
  - zanny 10y ago
    I'd personally see people just stop using Windows. The more people using Linux, the more money in the market for Wine to get better and better replace all the Windows APIs for everyones "I cannot use Linux because X program is Windows only" software. I mean, I'm already playing Skyrim natively on an AMD GPU thanks to Gallium Nine. And that is only because there has been a lot of internal pressure in the community to have the best Windows only games running here. The more people we get to switch, the more market for businesses to make the process of switching easier. Of course, we still need Ubuntu (or SteamOS) computers in stores. That would be a nice start. It is hard to get people to switch when they need someone with technical know-how to violate their warranties and give them no commercial support unless you have a small business IT shop like what I run in the evenings that will do it.
    - curiousgal 10y ago
      Ever since I could run 1Password using Wine with full browser integration, I've completely turned my back to Windows.
      - harikb 10y ago
        Oh it does? I am trying it today! I wouldn't believe browser integration until I try it...
      - deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
- 13of40 10y ago
  I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.
  - aluhut 10y ago
    "Everyone" meaning Apple fans. A special group on it's own. Known for paying more attention on the curves of the over expensive items they buy.
    - merb 10y ago
      I have a Apple iPhone 5 and a Mac (OS X) currently neither of them forced an OS upgrade to me. I always needed to explicitly click the install button. With software its a little bit diffrent, but major/minor OS upgrades i.e. OS X 10.9 > 10.10 > 10.11 (everything between 10.11.1 etc) needed an explicit click and on iOS the same.
      - aluhut 10y ago
        Wouldn't you complain if they'd just pushed it without asking?
    - dang 10y ago
      Please don't do this here.
  - newacct23 10y ago
    I don't know about iOS but I have never had a forced upgrade with a mac laptop.
  - LeoPanthera 10y ago
    The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.
- JupiterMoon 10y ago
  At least now they have windows 10 they can mark the connection as metered.
- m_mueller 10y ago
  While MS is clearly using dark patterns here IMO the user is at mostly fault for the internet bill. If you have an expensive metered internet connection and you don't do all the necessary steps to prohibit autoupdates it's only a matter of time until this repeats itself with any other software installed. The Win10 update never circumvented a disabled auto-update-download setting, correct?
wvenable 10y ago
I have a few computers where I have reserved the Windows 10 upgrade. I have yet to have this upgrade happen automatically.
metaphor 10y ago
There's a sense of irony seeing this post today when just last night, as my girlfriend and I were planning a weekend trip, I asked her what OS she was using (not being familiar with anything beyond Win7), to which she responded Win8. I then asked if she planned to upgrade to Win10, noting a post I had read about MS charging for the upgrade after a certain date, to which she responded no...then a minute or two later, poof, Win10 auto-update starts...literally in the middle of a reservation transaction. She swears she never explicitly consented to the upgrade. It's one thing to read about and discuss the issues with Microsoft's overt push to migrate the world to Win10. It's admittedly a completely different experience to see it happen right before your eyes. Some time ago, I half-committed to never owning another computer with a Microsoft OS beyond Win7, reasoning that you just never know if a useful tool may pop up that's only available for Windows. After last night's surprise, that commitment became unwavering.
- aswanson 10y ago
  I thought Nadella would bring an ending to such hamfisted, Ballmeresque/Gatesian approaches what with him supporting such open projects lately. This is sad.
  - CamperBob2 10y ago
    I don't think this debacle can be blamed on Ballmer, and certainly not on Gates. In fact, I have to wonder if the reason why Ballmer was finally handed his walking papers by the board was that he was unwilling to greenlight these frog-marched upgrades to Windows 10. Somebody very powerful at Microsoft, or perhaps elsewhere, wants everybody to accept this free update way, way too badly, and it's not clear why.
    - cmurf 10y ago
      They're getting their asses handed to them by malware. They have a huge attack surface of users on various versions of Windows. Forced upgrades reduces that attack surface of older versions of Windows. That's all I can think of. In open source software where this is more transparent, computer security is hard. Backporting fixes is harder, and expensive, and has its own risks. Microsoft can't be immune to the same problem.
Reese1379 10y ago
Have they considered upgrading to a Linux distro? http://distrowatch.com/ http://distrowatch.com/
x0n 10y ago
For f*cks sake. What about "Unpatched Windows PC shuts down N instances of x,y or z due to worm/virus/malware," which is a headline far more common than this completely ridiculous headline. This is the technological equivalent of that one person pontificating and whining on about someone who once knew someone who died in a car crash BECAUSE they WERE wearing their seat belt. Back before updates were forced, users have proven themselves too clueless to manage their own PCs. I don't care what people do as long as they are not connected to the internet. It's a shared resource.
- JupiterMoon 10y ago
  OK but you would be saying something different if you got the bill that they will be getting for the data!
- Falkon1313 10y ago
  For security updates, yes. But this is not a security update. Upgrades that completely change the UI, alter the set of programs that are capable of running on the platform (potentially disabling critical software), and add new processes that do things behind the scenes that you might not want (like monitoring/tracking etc.), and may not even be compatible with your hardware are another thing entirely. Updates or upgrades should only be forced when backwards compatibility is preserved.
userbinator 10y ago
The amount of churn in the computer industry is staggering and the upgrade treadmill is a huge waste of resources to many, but I suppose it's the only way for them to continue making a profit. Personally, I think Windows as an OS reached its pinnacle sometime around the XP timeframe; since then it has mostly been frustrating UI changes and feature removals, "security" features designed to lock down your PC against you and instead follow the commands of some corporate entity, and massive amounts of data collection. Incidentally, that timeframe coincides with the rise of file sharing, and while the Internet certainly wasn't very safe or secure back then, it was an era of relative freedom. I was quite disgusted when I saw that Windows 10's start menu contains adverts; maybe Microsoft realised that the average user would likely install adware themselves anyway, so they wanted to get into that industry too... all the evidence certainly supports that, including the now-well-known closing the upgrade window indicates consent shady behaviour common amongst malware/adware. It's clear that MS is really, really desperate to get as much users onto Win10 as they can. To adopt a phrase MS originally used against Linux, "Windows 10 is a free upgrade only if your freedom and privacy are worth nothing."
- _RPM 10y ago
  Do you think they will start showing advertisements on the Windows 10? Like if you're in settings and a banner ad pops up.
  - reitanqild 10y ago
    Sad to say, but yes, also on my professional edition I think. (A "recommended apps" ad in the start menu.)
    - pizzachef2 10y ago
      You can turn those off.
      - cm2187 10y ago
        Or you can have no appetite to play whack-a-mole with microsoft's privacy settings and refuse to upgrade.
rm999 10y ago
The headline really should be reworded, even the article states the shutdown was a theoretical. > if a forced upgrade happened and crashed our pc's while in the middle of coordinating rangers...
asimuvPR 10y ago
I tune cars as as as a hobby. My current setup is based around windows xp due to driver supports (technically an embedded application). My plan was to upgrade to a windows 8 machine and emulate an xp install. But I'm not going to anymore. I tune while driving and it could be catastrophic to have the machine install updates. I'll continue with the air gapped xp machine. Too bad because I was looking forward to not using a machine that was a hundred years old.
- hackney 10y ago
  If you would update to 8, which is more of a TS interface with an ap store, why not windows 7? You could have a 64bit OS with a nice quad core+ cpu which is impossible in XP. Then you could virtual machine xp on top of that and have the latest and greatest. XP is rather dated to say the least. The only reason to run it is if you have older hardware such as a pentium 4 single core processor on board.
  - asimuvPR 10y ago
    I believe it also upgrades itself. Not sure. I really don't want to risk it because it could brick t he car's ecu (not cheap).
    - Mithaldu 10y ago
      Welcome to being a victim of sensational misreporting. Win7 does not upgrade itself randomly or without telling you. It will schedule an upgrade, then tell you about it and give you a chance to cancel it beforehand. And using something like https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm you can also disable the scheduling.
      - asimuvPR 10y ago
        Your reply is appreciated. :)
      - pritambaral 10y ago
        > Win7 does not upgrade itself randomly or without telling you. It will schedule an upgrade, then tell you about it and give you a chance to cancel it beforehand Technicaly true. Practically, it will sneakily get a human to eventually let the upgrade in. Just as we've been seeing all around.
mattkevan 10y ago
The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as possible on the latest version is a good thing from a platform perspective, but in reality it's such an irresponsible thing to do. It just lets people know that Microsoft are quite happy to reach in and break their stuff at any point. If anything it's persuaded the last few Windows holdouts in the office to switch to the Mac or Linux in short order.
- yuhong 10y ago
  Note that businesses will typically use Win10 Enterprise, often with WSUS.
  - mavhc 10y ago
    Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.
    - yuhong 10y ago
      This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.
      - cm2187 10y ago
        If the company only has 5-10 employees, it is pretty safe to assume they will not have a dedicated IT function who would worry for them about volume licensing, domain joined systems, etc. They likely just buy a laptop on Dell's website which comes with whatever version of the OS Dell tells them is good for them.
        yuhong 10y ago
Reese1379 10y ago
This has to be the only tech site where a suggestion to use Linux results in a down vote.
- zxcvcxz 10y ago
  This isn't "hacker news", this is "corporate news". It's amazing that some people consider themselves "hackers" when all they use is VS and Office programs on Windows and actively stay away from any process they perceive as difficult.
- frik 10y ago
  MS kind of infiltrated HN in 2015, visible to HN users during the Build 2015 conference in early 2015. Coincidentally Microsoft and Y Combinator formed a partnership, https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/stevengu/2015/02/09/y-combinator-and-microsoft-inspiring-ideas-through-partnership/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/stevengu/2015/02/09/y-combi... and somewhere I read that they formed a joint venture (but I haven't found the source again). In 2015 a lot of new (green) sock puppet and corporate accounts appeared that down vote comments and flag stories that share not their "nice vision". The worse situation around MS all started when Gates (who is apparently still a driving force) replaced Ballmer with Nadella, a marionette. I am viewing HN using a third party front end, and every time a unfavorable MS story appears it doesn't last long on HN until it gets flagged - no other company story is handled that negatively or flagged in any way that often. So there is a clear pattern behind it. To make my point clear, also this story quickly vanished from the HN frontpage. And I would have no chance to even know about it. HN used to be a better site :(
  - dang 10y ago
    Microsoft has no special status on Hacker News. It's true that HN sees a flurry of MS stories on their big conference day, but it's also true of Google, Apple, and Amazon's annual conference days, and maybe others. That's how they all like to do their big tech announcements. Each time it happens, people complain that HN has fallen into the clutches of MS|Google|Apple|Amazon, but nothing has changed at our end. Actually we raise the bar a bit on those days so that only 3 or 4 such stories stay on the front page instead of 7 or 8. They'd probably get more attention overall if they staggered their releases through the year. There have been a lot of unfavorable stories about MS on HN, including recently. We don't do anything special to penalize them, nor do we let users abuse flagging in the way you suggest. In fact the Windows 10 update nagware saga has appeared numerous times on HN's front page, including multiple stories about clicking 'x' on the dialog box, how it screwed some African satellite operators, etc. The current one fell suddenly off the front page because of software (it set off the flamewar detector). If MS "infiltrated" HN, it's news to me and I'd like to know about it. It's our job to protect the integrity of this place for the community and we take it seriously. When we see gaming and manipulation we crack down on it hard. But actually the BigCos aren't the ones who do such things. They're (rightly) too risk-averse. If you think you see evidence of manipulation you should email us at hn@ycombinator.com. When we get emails like that we always look into it.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
codedokode 10y ago
Using dark UI patterns (like dialogs without cancel button) is disrespectful to users. They bought Windows to get stable and reliable operationg system. The system that updates at night and gets drivers or software broken is nowhere near stable. Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) doesn't autoupdate. It might be acceptable if Microsoft gave their product away for free: many free products (e.g. Sublime or Skype) include annoying autoupdate popups for non-paying users. But Windows is quite expensive software. Microsoft's motives are just getting more paid services, getting more telemetry (for free! they do not pay for it) and maybe adding some kind of subscription in future. Recent Windows versions like 7 or 8 seem to be 'good enough' for most customers so they do not want to upgrade for free let alone buy newer versions. And subscription is as bad as DRM.
- yuhong 10y ago
  This is a good time to mention selling Windows to a non-profit foundation, so that Windows would truly be actually free. I remember a comment mentioning retirement funds.
  - bitwize 10y ago
    Apache Windows?
- jmiserez 10y ago
  > Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.
  - cm2187 10y ago
    But the drivers problem isn't really behind them. I just purchased a lenovo laptop after reading similar comments noting the progress of linux desktop, and can't get the laptop to connect to an external monitor, despite the device being on ubuntu's certified list.
bitmapbrother 10y ago
In their quest to remain relevant and join the 1 Billion install club for their latest OS they're using every trick in the book to fool users into upgrading their OS just so that they can meet their timelines. What they didn't account for was the backlash and rage their malware inspired tactics would ignite. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 10 against their wishes is despicable and disgusting.
MertsA 10y ago
Can we get this changed to the original source? Not only does the Softpedia article not add anything substantial to the original source, it's also factually inaccurate. Windows 10 wasn't installed on any of their computers, the issue was just that it racked up a huge telecom bill for caching the installer. It also didn't impede any operations or disable any computer. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...
- chris_wot 10y ago
  Yeah, but chewing up that bandwidth, surely it took forever and it must have slowed down some critical network functions!
jgalt212 10y ago
Our business's recent experience with forced upgrades Our accounting team used Quickbooks Pro 2014 which worked on Windows 7. Then all our machines went to Windows 10, and Quickbooks no longer worked. Our accounting team basically did no work for a week while they did a combo of trying to figure out which software to migrate to (went with Quickbooks Online), recover any missing data, and make sure the data migrated successfully to the new accounting package. The nice part of this forced migration is that Quickbooks online does not require Windows, so three less Windows boxes to support at our shop as we have moved the acct dept to Linux boxes. The rule of unintended consequences in full effect.

159 points by gooserock 10y ago

As per the post[0], the upgrade did not crash the computer BUT it did download 6Gb of data over satellite-internet which can be quite expensive. OP is having an AMA[1]. 0.https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i... 1.https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4mirin/i_am_the_accidental_it_guy_antipoaching_pilot_in/ https://www.reddit.com/r/IAmA/comments/4mirin/i_am_the_accid...

trhway 10y ago
i wish some trial lawyers found an opportunity here for a class action against MS. Couple weeks ago one of our laptops became Win 10. May be it is better than Win 8.1, yet i still would have wanted to be a part of that decision :)
- curiousgal 10y ago
  https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm
  - trhway 10y ago
    exactly - either forced upgrade or downloading and running some utility from a site/company i see for the first time and have never heard about :)
    - TillE 10y ago
      Steve Gibson is a little strange, but he's trustworthy.
      - xufi 10y ago
        Yep, I have to say the second I heard about GRC and discovered the software he made such as SpinRIte for HDD"s I was hooked
    - curiousgal 10y ago
      You can check the technical details https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm It basically does what Microsoft would do in order to keep Windows from upgrading.
    - morganvachon 10y ago
      Steve Gibson is one of the most trusted developers of the past few decades. His SpinRite software is a life saver. Please read about him before dismissing him out of hand because you've not heard of him. There's more to the world than what's inside your box.
  - dghughes 10y ago
    >Never10 does NOT prevent the installation of Windows updates, including the infamous Get Windows 10 (GWX) update KB3035583. Never10 simply employs Microsoft's documented and sanctioned configuration settings to instruct it NOT to change the installed version of Windows. That would not have helped in this situation OP stated what hurt them was the huge amount bandwidth (6GB) used on an account where they pay per MB.
    - Veratyr 10y ago
      What it actually does [0] is set group policy according to the Microsoft specified methods [1]. It would have helped in this situation as not only would Windows not have downloaded the update in the first place, it would have deleted it had it already been somehow downloaded. [0]: https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm https://www.grc.com/never10/details.htm [1]: https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351 https://support.microsoft.com/en-us/kb/3080351
- zanny 10y ago
  I'd personally see people just stop using Windows. The more people using Linux, the more money in the market for Wine to get better and better replace all the Windows APIs for everyones "I cannot use Linux because X program is Windows only" software. I mean, I'm already playing Skyrim natively on an AMD GPU thanks to Gallium Nine. And that is only because there has been a lot of internal pressure in the community to have the best Windows only games running here. The more people we get to switch, the more market for businesses to make the process of switching easier. Of course, we still need Ubuntu (or SteamOS) computers in stores. That would be a nice start. It is hard to get people to switch when they need someone with technical know-how to violate their warranties and give them no commercial support unless you have a small business IT shop like what I run in the evenings that will do it.
  - curiousgal 10y ago
    Ever since I could run 1Password using Wine with full browser integration, I've completely turned my back to Windows.
    - harikb 10y ago
      Oh it does? I am trying it today! I wouldn't believe browser integration until I try it...
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
13of40 10y ago
I think it's weird that so many people want to demonize Microsoft for snapping to a model that Apple has been using for a decade. I'm currently in one of those weeks where every time I wake up my iPad I have to click through two separate dialogs to tell it that, no, I don't want to install the updated version of iOS it downloaded without asking. Yet everyone is fine with this. I mean, except the Linux guys, I guess.
- aluhut 10y ago
  "Everyone" meaning Apple fans. A special group on it's own. Known for paying more attention on the curves of the over expensive items they buy.
  - merb 10y ago
    I have a Apple iPhone 5 and a Mac (OS X) currently neither of them forced an OS upgrade to me. I always needed to explicitly click the install button. With software its a little bit diffrent, but major/minor OS upgrades i.e. OS X 10.9 > 10.10 > 10.11 (everything between 10.11.1 etc) needed an explicit click and on iOS the same.
    - aluhut 10y ago
      Wouldn't you complain if they'd just pushed it without asking?
  - dang 10y ago
    Please don't do this here.
- newacct23 10y ago
  I don't know about iOS but I have never had a forced upgrade with a mac laptop.
- LeoPanthera 10y ago
  The difference is, iOS asks. You can say no. There are plenty of people being force-upgraded to 10 who never consented.
JupiterMoon 10y ago
At least now they have windows 10 they can mark the connection as metered.
m_mueller 10y ago
While MS is clearly using dark patterns here IMO the user is at mostly fault for the internet bill. If you have an expensive metered internet connection and you don't do all the necessary steps to prohibit autoupdates it's only a matter of time until this repeats itself with any other software installed. The Win10 update never circumvented a disabled auto-update-download setting, correct?

wvenable 10y ago

I have a few computers where I have reserved the Windows 10 upgrade. I have yet to have this upgrade happen automatically.

metaphor 10y ago

There's a sense of irony seeing this post today when just last night, as my girlfriend and I were planning a weekend trip, I asked her what OS she was using (not being familiar with anything beyond Win7), to which she responded Win8. I then asked if she planned to upgrade to Win10, noting a post I had read about MS charging for the upgrade after a certain date, to which she responded no...then a minute or two later, poof, Win10 auto-update starts...literally in the middle of a reservation transaction. She swears she never explicitly consented to the upgrade. It's one thing to read about and discuss the issues with Microsoft's overt push to migrate the world to Win10. It's admittedly a completely different experience to see it happen right before your eyes. Some time ago, I half-committed to never owning another computer with a Microsoft OS beyond Win7, reasoning that you just never know if a useful tool may pop up that's only available for Windows. After last night's surprise, that commitment became unwavering.

aswanson 10y ago
I thought Nadella would bring an ending to such hamfisted, Ballmeresque/Gatesian approaches what with him supporting such open projects lately. This is sad.
- CamperBob2 10y ago
  I don't think this debacle can be blamed on Ballmer, and certainly not on Gates. In fact, I have to wonder if the reason why Ballmer was finally handed his walking papers by the board was that he was unwilling to greenlight these frog-marched upgrades to Windows 10. Somebody very powerful at Microsoft, or perhaps elsewhere, wants everybody to accept this free update way, way too badly, and it's not clear why.
  - cmurf 10y ago
    They're getting their asses handed to them by malware. They have a huge attack surface of users on various versions of Windows. Forced upgrades reduces that attack surface of older versions of Windows. That's all I can think of. In open source software where this is more transparent, computer security is hard. Backporting fixes is harder, and expensive, and has its own risks. Microsoft can't be immune to the same problem.

Reese1379 10y ago

Have they considered upgrading to a Linux distro? http://distrowatch.com/ http://distrowatch.com/

x0n 10y ago

For f*cks sake. What about "Unpatched Windows PC shuts down N instances of x,y or z due to worm/virus/malware," which is a headline far more common than this completely ridiculous headline. This is the technological equivalent of that one person pontificating and whining on about someone who once knew someone who died in a car crash BECAUSE they WERE wearing their seat belt. Back before updates were forced, users have proven themselves too clueless to manage their own PCs. I don't care what people do as long as they are not connected to the internet. It's a shared resource.

JupiterMoon 10y ago
OK but you would be saying something different if you got the bill that they will be getting for the data!
Falkon1313 10y ago
For security updates, yes. But this is not a security update. Upgrades that completely change the UI, alter the set of programs that are capable of running on the platform (potentially disabling critical software), and add new processes that do things behind the scenes that you might not want (like monitoring/tracking etc.), and may not even be compatible with your hardware are another thing entirely. Updates or upgrades should only be forced when backwards compatibility is preserved.

userbinator 10y ago

The amount of churn in the computer industry is staggering and the upgrade treadmill is a huge waste of resources to many, but I suppose it's the only way for them to continue making a profit. Personally, I think Windows as an OS reached its pinnacle sometime around the XP timeframe; since then it has mostly been frustrating UI changes and feature removals, "security" features designed to lock down your PC against you and instead follow the commands of some corporate entity, and massive amounts of data collection. Incidentally, that timeframe coincides with the rise of file sharing, and while the Internet certainly wasn't very safe or secure back then, it was an era of relative freedom. I was quite disgusted when I saw that Windows 10's start menu contains adverts; maybe Microsoft realised that the average user would likely install adware themselves anyway, so they wanted to get into that industry too... all the evidence certainly supports that, including the now-well-known closing the upgrade window indicates consent shady behaviour common amongst malware/adware. It's clear that MS is really, really desperate to get as much users onto Win10 as they can. To adopt a phrase MS originally used against Linux, "Windows 10 is a free upgrade only if your freedom and privacy are worth nothing."

_RPM 10y ago
Do you think they will start showing advertisements on the Windows 10? Like if you're in settings and a banner ad pops up.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  Sad to say, but yes, also on my professional edition I think. (A "recommended apps" ad in the start menu.)
  - pizzachef2 10y ago
    You can turn those off.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      Or you can have no appetite to play whack-a-mole with microsoft's privacy settings and refuse to upgrade.

rm999 10y ago

The headline really should be reworded, even the article states the shutdown was a theoretical. > if a forced upgrade happened and crashed our pc's while in the middle of coordinating rangers...

asimuvPR 10y ago

I tune cars as as as a hobby. My current setup is based around windows xp due to driver supports (technically an embedded application). My plan was to upgrade to a windows 8 machine and emulate an xp install. But I'm not going to anymore. I tune while driving and it could be catastrophic to have the machine install updates. I'll continue with the air gapped xp machine. Too bad because I was looking forward to not using a machine that was a hundred years old.

hackney 10y ago
If you would update to 8, which is more of a TS interface with an ap store, why not windows 7? You could have a 64bit OS with a nice quad core+ cpu which is impossible in XP. Then you could virtual machine xp on top of that and have the latest and greatest. XP is rather dated to say the least. The only reason to run it is if you have older hardware such as a pentium 4 single core processor on board.
- asimuvPR 10y ago
  I believe it also upgrades itself. Not sure. I really don't want to risk it because it could brick t he car's ecu (not cheap).
  - Mithaldu 10y ago
    Welcome to being a victim of sensational misreporting. Win7 does not upgrade itself randomly or without telling you. It will schedule an upgrade, then tell you about it and give you a chance to cancel it beforehand. And using something like https://www.grc.com/never10.htm https://www.grc.com/never10.htm you can also disable the scheduling.
    - asimuvPR 10y ago
      Your reply is appreciated. :)
    - pritambaral 10y ago
      > Win7 does not upgrade itself randomly or without telling you. It will schedule an upgrade, then tell you about it and give you a chance to cancel it beforehand Technicaly true. Practically, it will sneakily get a human to eventually let the upgrade in. Just as we've been seeing all around.

mattkevan 10y ago

The windows boxes in our office have been upgrading themselves, much to everyone's dismay: The one in the meeting room decided to upgrade and then break in the middle of a client presentation I was leading. I got my Mac and continued on, but it was embarrassing. My colleague's machine upgraded itself overnight, and in the process deleted a bunch of files and corrupted creative suite. I know having as many people as possible on the latest version is a good thing from a platform perspective, but in reality it's such an irresponsible thing to do. It just lets people know that Microsoft are quite happy to reach in and break their stuff at any point. If anything it's persuaded the last few Windows holdouts in the office to switch to the Mac or Linux in short order.

yuhong 10y ago
Note that businesses will typically use Win10 Enterprise, often with WSUS.
- mavhc 10y ago
  Large businesses. It's the DIY small businesses that always have problems. They should switch to Chrome OS.
  - yuhong 10y ago
    This is a good time to mention that the minimum for volume licensing is only 5 copies.
    - cm2187 10y ago
      If the company only has 5-10 employees, it is pretty safe to assume they will not have a dedicated IT function who would worry for them about volume licensing, domain joined systems, etc. They likely just buy a laptop on Dell's website which comes with whatever version of the OS Dell tells them is good for them.
      - yuhong 10y ago

Reese1379 10y ago

This has to be the only tech site where a suggestion to use Linux results in a down vote.

zxcvcxz 10y ago
This isn't "hacker news", this is "corporate news". It's amazing that some people consider themselves "hackers" when all they use is VS and Office programs on Windows and actively stay away from any process they perceive as difficult.
frik 10y ago
MS kind of infiltrated HN in 2015, visible to HN users during the Build 2015 conference in early 2015. Coincidentally Microsoft and Y Combinator formed a partnership, https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/stevengu/2015/02/09/y-combinator-and-microsoft-inspiring-ideas-through-partnership/ https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/stevengu/2015/02/09/y-combi... and somewhere I read that they formed a joint venture (but I haven't found the source again). In 2015 a lot of new (green) sock puppet and corporate accounts appeared that down vote comments and flag stories that share not their "nice vision". The worse situation around MS all started when Gates (who is apparently still a driving force) replaced Ballmer with Nadella, a marionette. I am viewing HN using a third party front end, and every time a unfavorable MS story appears it doesn't last long on HN until it gets flagged - no other company story is handled that negatively or flagged in any way that often. So there is a clear pattern behind it. To make my point clear, also this story quickly vanished from the HN frontpage. And I would have no chance to even know about it. HN used to be a better site :(
- dang 10y ago
  Microsoft has no special status on Hacker News. It's true that HN sees a flurry of MS stories on their big conference day, but it's also true of Google, Apple, and Amazon's annual conference days, and maybe others. That's how they all like to do their big tech announcements. Each time it happens, people complain that HN has fallen into the clutches of MS|Google|Apple|Amazon, but nothing has changed at our end. Actually we raise the bar a bit on those days so that only 3 or 4 such stories stay on the front page instead of 7 or 8. They'd probably get more attention overall if they staggered their releases through the year. There have been a lot of unfavorable stories about MS on HN, including recently. We don't do anything special to penalize them, nor do we let users abuse flagging in the way you suggest. In fact the Windows 10 update nagware saga has appeared numerous times on HN's front page, including multiple stories about clicking 'x' on the dialog box, how it screwed some African satellite operators, etc. The current one fell suddenly off the front page because of software (it set off the flamewar detector). If MS "infiltrated" HN, it's news to me and I'd like to know about it. It's our job to protect the integrity of this place for the community and we take it seriously. When we see gaming and manipulation we crack down on it hard. But actually the BigCos aren't the ones who do such things. They're (rightly) too risk-averse. If you think you see evidence of manipulation you should email us at hn@ycombinator.com. When we get emails like that we always look into it.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

codedokode 10y ago

Using dark UI patterns (like dialogs without cancel button) is disrespectful to users. They bought Windows to get stable and reliable operationg system. The system that updates at night and gets drivers or software broken is nowhere near stable. Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) doesn't autoupdate. It might be acceptable if Microsoft gave their product away for free: many free products (e.g. Sublime or Skype) include annoying autoupdate popups for non-paying users. But Windows is quite expensive software. Microsoft's motives are just getting more paid services, getting more telemetry (for free! they do not pay for it) and maybe adding some kind of subscription in future. Recent Windows versions like 7 or 8 seem to be 'good enough' for most customers so they do not want to upgrade for free let alone buy newer versions. And subscription is as bad as DRM.

yuhong 10y ago
This is a good time to mention selling Windows to a non-profit foundation, so that Windows would truly be actually free. I remember a comment mentioning retirement funds.
- bitwize 10y ago
  Apache Windows?
jmiserez 10y ago
> Even linux (which is awful as desktop system) I disagree. Linux is great as a desktop system precisely because you're in control, not some third-party. And in terms of desktop functionality there is no meaningful difference anymore.
- cm2187 10y ago
  But the drivers problem isn't really behind them. I just purchased a lenovo laptop after reading similar comments noting the progress of linux desktop, and can't get the laptop to connect to an external monitor, despite the device being on ubuntu's certified list.

bitmapbrother 10y ago

In their quest to remain relevant and join the 1 Billion install club for their latest OS they're using every trick in the book to fool users into upgrading their OS just so that they can meet their timelines. What they didn't account for was the backlash and rage their malware inspired tactics would ignite. Forcing people to upgrade to Windows 10 against their wishes is despicable and disgusting.

MertsA 10y ago

Can we get this changed to the original source? Not only does the Softpedia article not add anything substantial to the original source, it's also factually inaccurate. Windows 10 wasn't installed on any of their computers, the issue was just that it racked up a huge telecom bill for caching the installer. It also didn't impede any operations or disable any computer. https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_in_the_central_african_bush_we_pay_for/ https://www.reddit.com/r/technology/comments/4mcdon/i_live_i...

chris_wot 10y ago
Yeah, but chewing up that bandwidth, surely it took forever and it must have slowed down some critical network functions!

jgalt212 10y ago

Our business's recent experience with forced upgrades Our accounting team used Quickbooks Pro 2014 which worked on Windows 7. Then all our machines went to Windows 10, and Quickbooks no longer worked. Our accounting team basically did no work for a week while they did a combo of trying to figure out which software to migrate to (went with Quickbooks Online), recover any missing data, and make sure the data migrated successfully to the new accounting package. The nice part of this forced migration is that Quickbooks online does not require Windows, so three less Windows boxes to support at our shop as we have moved the acct dept to Linux boxes. The rule of unintended consequences in full effect.