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This is kind of convenient; it gives me one more excuse not to use facebook. A few days ago I got the usual notification email that somebody had sent me a messa

This is kind of convenient; it gives me one more excuse not to use facebook. A few days ago I got the usual notification email that somebody had sent me a message on FB. Clicking is a low barrier so I clicked, curiously. Then I instead got the "No, now you have to install Messenger app" screen. That was enough of a barrier that I said "oh forget it, who cares, anybody who knows me would know better than to send me an FB message anyway, if it matters they'll get in touch via a 'real' communications medium like email, text, or phone" So sending me an FB message is now a black hole and I'm fine with that. FB's decision just pushed me and all other similar users (users that already are on the fringes of FB usage, using it only rarely) even further away. I'm not sure if that's a bad thing or good thing for them, since honestly I don't know what FB could do alternately to win back people in my "barely use FB" demographic, and from comments here it does seem like people who actually use FB regularly did not share my reaction ("screw it then") and instead felt forced to install the app and move on with their lives.

rtpg 10y ago
The counterpoint is that I know heavy FB users (myself included) who have opted to just install Messenger on their phones, essentially being able to get rid of FB on the phone, to limit distractions but keep the nice communication While I kinda get removing it from the mobile app, I don't really know what the rationale is for getting rid of mobile web chat though. It's not like it's disappearing from the desktop web app anytime soon, right? right?
- teej 10y ago
  The rationale that Facebook is using is chat isn't chat anymore, chat is a platform. You have Line/QQ/WeChat to thank for that. Cut the edges to funnel into the "core", and soup it up with platform features to compete with China. Personally I'm not convinced that "Westerners" are going to get on board with Chinese-style all-in-one chat apps. I'm doubly unconvinced that Facebook will pull it off.
  - mr_spothawk 10y ago
    As a westerner, WeChat was one of the coolest apps I encountered living in China. That said, we should probably consider all of these platforms harmful. I've migrated (and been pressuring my connections to migrate) to Telegram.org
    - kahnpro 10y ago
      But Telegram is still based on another proprietary, centralized server. I don't see how this solves anyone's problems.
- JumpCrisscross 10y ago
  > just install Messenger...to limit distractions Interesting. I have been much happier since killing the Fb app'a notification and badge permissions.
- newscracker 10y ago
  > While I kinda get removing it from the mobile app, I don't really know what the rationale is for getting rid of mobile web chat though. It's not like it's disappearing from the desktop web app anytime soon, right? I'm guessing that within the next one year or so, Facebook will force people to move to official apps even on desktop systems (like Windows and OS X), closing browser based access completely. That would give Facebook more control on tracking, ads, etc.
kayoone 10y ago
so you never ever use FB on the desktop ? You can still read messages there. I have quite a lot of international friends on FB of whom i don't have a phone number but use Messenger to communicate. Of course, i could try to find out their skype/email but the endresult would be the same, just more hassle to get there. With WhatsApp and Messenger i can pretty much reach anyone i know right now, but i could remove the regular FB app from my phone though.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  I didn't even know that it still worked on desktop! This shows that although it's not true that I /never/ use FB on the desktop it's very rare. This is because I never go to FB just to check out FB; I go to FB because a notification email piqued my interest. And I do read my emails almost exclusively on the phone.
  - erelde 10y ago
    The trick is to keep only "facebook.com/messages" in your history (or bookmarks if you use that). That way the browser autocomplete from your history and you get directly to the messages.
    - wahnfrieden 10y ago
      Just use http://messenger.com http://messenger.com then
      - tamana 10y ago
        Wow, sure is ashamed of themselves, hiding their name from the messenger homepage
        SerLava 10y ago
        >know when people have seen your messages Oh cool, they brought over the thing that made me completely stop using Facebook!
mattwad 10y ago
I don't use Facebook at all, though I have an account. Messenger is perfect for me because I only care about the [very rare] chances that someone sends me a message on Facebook. These have always been friends or family that I haven't talked to in a while, actually! And they don't always have my phone or email address...
- BurningFrog 10y ago
  The simple reason I do all the communication I can on FBM is that I know it won't get lost in some spam filter.
  - Inlinked 10y ago
    Perhaps a more nuanced reason is that you don't know it got lost in some spam filter. Out of sight, out of mind... [1] https://consumerist.com/2012/01/04/how-facebooks-message-spam-filter-lost-me-a-free-tv-and-blu-ray-player/ https://consumerist.com/2012/01/04/how-facebooks-message-spa... [2] http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how-to-check-facebook-spam-email-messages-folder/ http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how-to-check-facebook-spam-emai... [3] http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/entertainment/news/a42460/another-secret-message-inbox-facebook/ http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/entertainment/news/a42460/anot... [4] http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-filtered-message-requests-inbox-hiding-messages-deaths-users-2016-4 http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-filtered-message-requ...
    - Jordrok 10y ago
      I came across these articles a while ago and decided to check my filtered messages just out of curiosity. I hardly ever use fb anymore so I didn't expect to find anything. Lo and behold though, there was a two year old message from my best friend from elementary school who I had lost touch with forever ago. Lesson learned: don't trust Facebook with anything important, they'll fuck it up even if it's one of their core features.
      - newscracker 10y ago
gcr 10y ago
I see it the opposite way. Using Messenge could give you a great way to use facebook without subjecting yourself to the News Feed Giant Tentacled Monster. Why not use Messenger without Facebook? My reason not to use Facebook was because it trivializes friendships. With Facebook, I wouldn't have to go out of my way to be "friends" with someone, so the relationship would be less meaningful. But Messenger doesn't share that property --- you have to bother to click on someone's name and you have to bother to think up a good message to send them. That means it's no worse than any other IM client, with the strong advantage that your real-world friends already use it. You get to keep up with them in the way you want to, and they get to keep up with you in the way they want to. Best of both worlds?
- pikachu_is_cool 10y ago
  There's a ton of reasons to not use Messenger. 1. The mandatory "seen" indicator 2. All of your messages are beholden to a private company, permanently stored in plaintext 3. They analyze said messages to deliver advertisements. Seriously, one time I mentioned buying a Samsung SSD to my friend in chat, and all of a sudden I got a ton of SSD advertisements on the sidebar. Same thing when I mentioned Rick and Morty. 4. It's Facebook, for crying out loud.
  - alexland 10y ago
    Most of these sound like reasons not to use Facebook in general. While the seen indicator is a legitimate annoyance, it's been commonplace for some years now. I don't know of a modern chat app that doesn't have it. As for the rest of your points, Facebook's money comes from ads. These concerns are not limited to chat, but using Facebook in general. As you browse the web, Facebook is tracking you and using the data to deliver more relevant ads. As you comment and make posts, Facebook uses the data to deliver more relevant ads. Every part of the service is designed to help them do this, saying that these are reasons to "not use Messenger" is missing the point. The point of using Messenger is that you're not tied to any other portion of Facebook. You just get to message friends, plain and simple. The benefit is you're not being enticed into scrolling your news feed, spammed with notifications about upcoming events etc. Plus, there are rumours they're going to bring e2e encryption in a la Whatsapp, which would pretty much squash points 2 and 3.
fucking_tragedy 10y ago
It's inconvenient that they got rid of their XMPP compatible backend so they could lock us into their privacy destroying app ecosystem. Fortunately, vendor lock-in breeds resentment and dissidents. Hopefully, a better alternative will come from this.
dimino 10y ago
I use Messenger mostly because it's the only app that's actually achieved quorum amongst people who I talk to. If that weren't true, I wouldn't use Messenger, and if that's not true for you, I can understand not using it. I don't really understand, however, why folks like you try to make this a morality issue.
- galdosdi 10y ago
  I never mentioned morality, what do you mean?
  - dimino 10y ago
    Yeah, you did. > FB's decision just pushed me and all other similar users (users that already are on the fringes of FB usage, using it only rarely) even further away.
    - galdosdi 10y ago
      I'm still not seeing it. Where did I mention morality in there? Or rather, I know I didn't -- so where do you see it? Do you think that most people decide whether or not to use a website based on moral reasons, as opposed to more boring practical ones?
wahsd 10y ago
You and everyone should add a message and status to their account that they can be reached directly to have a conversation. I find it rather interesting that in many ways the components for private and secure and owner controlled "social networking", where the user controls the data, already exists, yet is just not being put together. I think if Apple realized this, they could not only decimate Facebook, but essentially grab huge chunks of the remaining market they don't control because people would promote Apple product and service use if it meant secure and private communications with those one really cares about. Because that's the crux really, we don't really share and have conversations with anyone but our close associates and friends and families, there is absolutely no value or benefit to the user to hand over the content and control of their data to the likes of Facebook.

rtpg 10y ago

The counterpoint is that I know heavy FB users (myself included) who have opted to just install Messenger on their phones, essentially being able to get rid of FB on the phone, to limit distractions but keep the nice communication While I kinda get removing it from the mobile app, I don't really know what the rationale is for getting rid of mobile web chat though. It's not like it's disappearing from the desktop web app anytime soon, right? right?

teej 10y ago
The rationale that Facebook is using is chat isn't chat anymore, chat is a platform. You have Line/QQ/WeChat to thank for that. Cut the edges to funnel into the "core", and soup it up with platform features to compete with China. Personally I'm not convinced that "Westerners" are going to get on board with Chinese-style all-in-one chat apps. I'm doubly unconvinced that Facebook will pull it off.
- mr_spothawk 10y ago
  As a westerner, WeChat was one of the coolest apps I encountered living in China. That said, we should probably consider all of these platforms harmful. I've migrated (and been pressuring my connections to migrate) to Telegram.org
  - kahnpro 10y ago
    But Telegram is still based on another proprietary, centralized server. I don't see how this solves anyone's problems.
JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> just install Messenger...to limit distractions Interesting. I have been much happier since killing the Fb app'a notification and badge permissions.
newscracker 10y ago
> While I kinda get removing it from the mobile app, I don't really know what the rationale is for getting rid of mobile web chat though. It's not like it's disappearing from the desktop web app anytime soon, right? I'm guessing that within the next one year or so, Facebook will force people to move to official apps even on desktop systems (like Windows and OS X), closing browser based access completely. That would give Facebook more control on tracking, ads, etc.

kayoone 10y ago

so you never ever use FB on the desktop ? You can still read messages there. I have quite a lot of international friends on FB of whom i don't have a phone number but use Messenger to communicate. Of course, i could try to find out their skype/email but the endresult would be the same, just more hassle to get there. With WhatsApp and Messenger i can pretty much reach anyone i know right now, but i could remove the regular FB app from my phone though.

galdosdi 10y ago
I didn't even know that it still worked on desktop! This shows that although it's not true that I /never/ use FB on the desktop it's very rare. This is because I never go to FB just to check out FB; I go to FB because a notification email piqued my interest. And I do read my emails almost exclusively on the phone.
- erelde 10y ago
  The trick is to keep only "facebook.com/messages" in your history (or bookmarks if you use that). That way the browser autocomplete from your history and you get directly to the messages.
  - wahnfrieden 10y ago
    Just use http://messenger.com http://messenger.com then
    - tamana 10y ago
      Wow, sure is ashamed of themselves, hiding their name from the messenger homepage
      - SerLava 10y ago
        >know when people have seen your messages Oh cool, they brought over the thing that made me completely stop using Facebook!

mattwad 10y ago

I don't use Facebook at all, though I have an account. Messenger is perfect for me because I only care about the [very rare] chances that someone sends me a message on Facebook. These have always been friends or family that I haven't talked to in a while, actually! And they don't always have my phone or email address...

BurningFrog 10y ago
The simple reason I do all the communication I can on FBM is that I know it won't get lost in some spam filter.
- Inlinked 10y ago
  Perhaps a more nuanced reason is that you don't know it got lost in some spam filter. Out of sight, out of mind... [1] https://consumerist.com/2012/01/04/how-facebooks-message-spam-filter-lost-me-a-free-tv-and-blu-ray-player/ https://consumerist.com/2012/01/04/how-facebooks-message-spa... [2] http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how-to-check-facebook-spam-email-messages-folder/ http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how-to-check-facebook-spam-emai... [3] http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/entertainment/news/a42460/another-secret-message-inbox-facebook/ http://www.cosmopolitan.co.uk/entertainment/news/a42460/anot... [4] http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-filtered-message-requests-inbox-hiding-messages-deaths-users-2016-4 http://uk.businessinsider.com/facebook-filtered-message-requ...
  - Jordrok 10y ago
    I came across these articles a while ago and decided to check my filtered messages just out of curiosity. I hardly ever use fb anymore so I didn't expect to find anything. Lo and behold though, there was a two year old message from my best friend from elementary school who I had lost touch with forever ago. Lesson learned: don't trust Facebook with anything important, they'll fuck it up even if it's one of their core features.
    - newscracker 10y ago

gcr 10y ago

I see it the opposite way. Using Messenge could give you a great way to use facebook without subjecting yourself to the News Feed Giant Tentacled Monster. Why not use Messenger without Facebook? My reason not to use Facebook was because it trivializes friendships. With Facebook, I wouldn't have to go out of my way to be "friends" with someone, so the relationship would be less meaningful. But Messenger doesn't share that property --- you have to bother to click on someone's name and you have to bother to think up a good message to send them. That means it's no worse than any other IM client, with the strong advantage that your real-world friends already use it. You get to keep up with them in the way you want to, and they get to keep up with you in the way they want to. Best of both worlds?

pikachu_is_cool 10y ago
There's a ton of reasons to not use Messenger. 1. The mandatory "seen" indicator 2. All of your messages are beholden to a private company, permanently stored in plaintext 3. They analyze said messages to deliver advertisements. Seriously, one time I mentioned buying a Samsung SSD to my friend in chat, and all of a sudden I got a ton of SSD advertisements on the sidebar. Same thing when I mentioned Rick and Morty. 4. It's Facebook, for crying out loud.
- alexland 10y ago
  Most of these sound like reasons not to use Facebook in general. While the seen indicator is a legitimate annoyance, it's been commonplace for some years now. I don't know of a modern chat app that doesn't have it. As for the rest of your points, Facebook's money comes from ads. These concerns are not limited to chat, but using Facebook in general. As you browse the web, Facebook is tracking you and using the data to deliver more relevant ads. As you comment and make posts, Facebook uses the data to deliver more relevant ads. Every part of the service is designed to help them do this, saying that these are reasons to "not use Messenger" is missing the point. The point of using Messenger is that you're not tied to any other portion of Facebook. You just get to message friends, plain and simple. The benefit is you're not being enticed into scrolling your news feed, spammed with notifications about upcoming events etc. Plus, there are rumours they're going to bring e2e encryption in a la Whatsapp, which would pretty much squash points 2 and 3.

fucking_tragedy 10y ago

It's inconvenient that they got rid of their XMPP compatible backend so they could lock us into their privacy destroying app ecosystem. Fortunately, vendor lock-in breeds resentment and dissidents. Hopefully, a better alternative will come from this.

dimino 10y ago

I use Messenger mostly because it's the only app that's actually achieved quorum amongst people who I talk to. If that weren't true, I wouldn't use Messenger, and if that's not true for you, I can understand not using it. I don't really understand, however, why folks like you try to make this a morality issue.

galdosdi 10y ago
I never mentioned morality, what do you mean?
- dimino 10y ago
  Yeah, you did. > FB's decision just pushed me and all other similar users (users that already are on the fringes of FB usage, using it only rarely) even further away.
  - galdosdi 10y ago
    I'm still not seeing it. Where did I mention morality in there? Or rather, I know I didn't -- so where do you see it? Do you think that most people decide whether or not to use a website based on moral reasons, as opposed to more boring practical ones?

wahsd 10y ago

You and everyone should add a message and status to their account that they can be reached directly to have a conversation. I find it rather interesting that in many ways the components for private and secure and owner controlled "social networking", where the user controls the data, already exists, yet is just not being put together. I think if Apple realized this, they could not only decimate Facebook, but essentially grab huge chunks of the remaining market they don't control because people would promote Apple product and service use if it meant secure and private communications with those one really cares about. Because that's the crux really, we don't really share and have conversations with anyone but our close associates and friends and families, there is absolutely no value or benefit to the user to hand over the content and control of their data to the likes of Facebook.