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Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end -

Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. At least they got their Obama.

fudged71 10y ago
On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. Calgary's downtown office towers have reached record high vacancy rates, with so many engineers laid off. I'm hoping this is an opportunity for tech companies to take notice and move in.
- wrong_variable 10y ago
  Interesting to know. I have been thinking of moving to Canada due to all the good things I hear from my Canadian friends. But I get conflicting view from the news and statistics.
  - Teever 10y ago
    I hope you understand that unless you have a job lined up or citizenship it is somewhat difficult to move to Canada. If I may make a modest suggestion perhaps try visiting Canada for a period of time in a region where you would want to eventually live instead of relying on the opinions of your friends (who may be biased) or statistics (which may not tell the whole story.)
    - ced 10y ago
      Many countries can get work-holiday visas to Canada. It's a very nice deal, and you can get "serious" jobs with it, too.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - serge2k 10y ago
    Move to BC. It's great. Unless you like cities and want to ever own a house, but don't worry about that.
  - Pxtl 10y ago
    Canada is big. Calgary is one small part, and that guy was exaggerating anyways. Let's remember that Calgary elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a famously liberal Muslim who is pushing for better transit and more intensification. Iirc, Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP, a hard leftward swing of Alberta politics against the long control of the Progressive Conservative party. But yes, the pay sucks for coders outside of Vancouver and Toronto, and there the insane housing market makes it not worth it anyways.
    - riphay 10y ago
      > Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP Correction: Edmonton is the stronghold of the NDP. Premier Notley's seat in the Legislature is in Edmonton's Strathcona riding, and I believe before last year Edmonton was the only city to elect NDP MLA's. Calgary has always been a Progressive Conservative stronghold.
    - fudged71 10y ago
      He's pushing for better public transit, not necessarily private transit ;) #UberScandal
    - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      Calgary has been die hard right wing for years. Edmonton is the stronghold for the NDP. And historically that was always the case. (I'm old enough to remember Jan Reimer as mayor in the 80s...)
- derefr 10y ago
  Your mention of Alberta made me realize—the low dollar, the unemployment, and the wildfire are all hitting the province of Alberta in particular. (Respectively, oil dollars, oil jobs, and oil sands, may be responsible.) And the three are intertwined: the fires aren't just destroying nature and wildlife, they're destroying liquid-asset real estate and arable farmland (i.e. jobs) as well. A lot of people are going to be suddenly qualified for income assistance in Alberta this year. If Alberta were its own country—as a few of their conservative pundits have semi-jokingly called for—this would be the point where you'd start to see pleas for international relief aid on the news, like those from Indonesia after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Instead, the Canadian government is going to have to try to soak up all those losses on its own. I wonder if its treasury is even that big?
  - soperj 10y ago
    If Alberta were it's own country their coffers would have been much bigger to deal with this mess. They probably would have also have accepted firefighters right away from other countries instead of waiting. They're is really no farmland up near fort mac. Don't know how farmland jobs are being destroyed?
    - cdmckay 10y ago
      Considering how they managed their Heritage Trust Fund, I somehow doubt that.
      - soperj 10y ago
        They have over 18 billion still in the fund.
- burnguy123 10y ago
  I am not sure this is going to happen. Calgary is a very conservative city, very little public transportation, a terrible cab system (and a city council who opposes alternatives), terrible road network (especially crowchild) no nightlife and very conservative drug and alcohol laws. Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd), so the good ones just move the the USA or work remotely. I don't see Calgary becoming a booming tech scene anytime soon.
  - wesd 10y ago
    >Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian I have to disagree with that statement. As an example, here is a system admin job posting by City of Calgary. The pay range is $77,891 - 117,609 per annum https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&JobOpeningId=207371&PostingSeq=1&SiteId=1 https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_H...
    - maerF0x0 10y ago
      Those city and CBE jobs are few and far between and usually pay much higher than private jobs. The 77k is starting wage more or less no matter what seniority and rises with yrs of service in the union. I think most intermediate / senior engineers can make 75k a year, but starting is very low, like 50k.
      - TheGeminon 10y ago
        That seems really wrong to me. I work for TELUS and starting wages for entry level programming positions is around the 55k-70k, and then for more intermediate positions (something like 5 years experience) you are looking at 70-100K
  - msbarnett 10y ago
    > Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd) That sounds low to me. Rates in Edmonton are considerably higher and I doubt Calgary skews that much lower. Hand-wavy, since it varies by exact variety of software you're doing, but I'd say that was more than 20k+ below market for intermediate-senior exp. Still lower than the US, of course.
- asteadman 10y ago
  I can only hope, but i'm not optimistic. Diversification seems a long way off.
- jlos 10y ago
  >> On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. As far as I know, Alberta's provincial government hasn't prevented growth in other sectors. Natural resources have made a lot of sense, giving their abundance here. And despite the roller coaster ride of natural resources, the province's finances are some of the healthiest in the entire country: - Lowest Debt-GDP ratio in the country (-1.2% for Alberta, compared with 39.6% in Ontario and 49.6% in Quebec) - No Provincial Sales Tax - 3rd highest spending per capita, next to SK and NL (30% higher than Ontario and 43% higher than Quebec) - GDP/Capita almost double of every other province And all of that doesn't include the transfer payments which go out to the Eastern Provinces. All that to say, I do hope your right and the tech ccene is Alberta can grow from current vacancies and other problems in the province. I think the province could really benefit from some natural growth in other sectors. [0] http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canad...
- cmrdporcupine 10y ago
  The city in Alberta that makes more sense for an software engineering industry is Edmonton. The University of Alberta is one of the top CS/engineering schools on the continent. I keep mentioning this to my coworkers at Google. A second Canadian engineering office in Edmonton would be awesome. And then I could move closer to my family.
  - zzalpha 10y ago
    Please no. With the oil downturn we can finally find qualified software devs to hire... the last thing we need is Google snapping them up!
    - walshemj 10y ago
      Why you want to depress our wages ?
      - zzalpha 10y ago
        No, just supply. During the more heated oil years no one was looking for a job. And this might come as a surprise, but that actually makes it really hard to hire, even if you have competitive offers. This might be different in other markets where job hopping is common and the overall supply of qualified hires is high (Edmonton often loses out to Calgary and Vancouver), but you don't see that as much here, unfortunately.
        walshemj 10y ago
        Same difference you just weren't offering enough $ or an interesting job to attract people.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
    - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
      Who is we and what are you hiring for?
serge2k 10y ago
> At least they got their Obama. What? Obama wasn't elected on the strength of nice hair and Daddy's legacy.
- soperj 10y ago
  His dad has a horrible legacy out west.
  - serge2k 10y ago
    The west doesn't tend to have a lot of influence. Especially when a candidate is popular out east (Ontario and Quebec). When it's conservatives coming to power it's different since Quebec tends to avoid voting conservative. I'm from BC. Polls close and the victory is called before votes even results even really start coming in.
    - thinkloop 10y ago
      That's not a representation of influence, if timezones were reversed the same would happen with Quebec, minus the larger population.
      - hluska 10y ago
        With all due respect, I don't think you understand how the Canadian system works. Out of 338 seats in our parliament, 231 are held in Ontario and points east.
  - auxym 10y ago
    Pierre Trudeau is not not very appreciated by a large proportion of Quebecers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Meeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Meeting
    - deleted 10y ago
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- 10y ago
msbarnett 10y ago
> # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! I wouldn't get too hung up on that -- historically that's a fairly decent rate for Canada. For a variety of reasons (difference in the way the rate is measured, and structural differences between the two countries) Canada's unemployment rate has generally been several points higher than the US since the late-70s. At least one analysis I've seen of the structural differences pinned the higher rate on the fact that unemployed Canadians were more likely to be seeking to return to the workforce than US counterparts, inflating the number since they don't "drop out" of the workforce entirely. edit: and the low dollar is a mixed bag. Higher basic good prices, but somewhat of a protective for middle-class manufacturing jobs.
Shivetya 10y ago
No offense but based on what happened here point #4 isn't profit. However if you read up on him they may have gotten closer to a Sanders if anything. Based on his actions he has try to what Obama promised to do (Transparency, cabinet mandate and such is publicly available) but never intended to do. The question that exist is, will his continued openness/transparency in governance keep alive the honeymoon period long enough to deliver on the large number of promises made in an unfriendly economy. You can promise the moon but economics will not let him deliver it.
canadiana 10y ago
I had to create an account to reply to this. Surreal. "# Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar." The Canadian dollar is currently at 0.772, which is historically pretty much the natural level for several decades. When the oil spike caused the dollar to rise, it gutted manufacturing and other exports because they had come to rely upon the lower rate. As it dropped these industries revitalized. "# Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% !" Surreal. An unemployment rate of 7.1% is far below the going average for the past several decades. Countries with stronger social nets universally have higher unemployment rates as people are less obligated to take terrible employment situations just to survive. I feel like some right winger from the US is giving their "take", to the detriment of all.
dleslie 10y ago
In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". [0][1] Canada's unemployment rate of 7.1% is normal. [2] 0: The 80s were turbulent: http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-history-dollar/ http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-history-dollar/ 1: There was a spike and collapse where you'd recently expect: http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/canadian-dollar-to-us-dollar-indx-chart-16-dec-2015.png http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12... 2: Historical unemployment data: http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=16 http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.js...
- MustardTiger 10y ago
  >In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". There was only one period of history where we were this badly fucked. And that was when this idiot's father was PM and destroyed our economy. It took 3 decades to pay back the debt he created and have our dollar recover. And now it is happening again.
  - dleslie 10y ago
    It happened again, already. Harper contributed the largest deficits and the biggest total new debt of any PM; and he started -before- the 2008 crisis.
    - MustardTiger 10y ago
      >Harper contributed the largest deficits and the biggest total new debt of any PM; Neither of those statements are correct. Do leftists seriously just make up nonsense because they like the way it sounds?
      - dleslie 10y ago
        My apologies, Mulroney was worse[0]; as a conservative I tend to block Mulroney from my memory. At the time of Harper's 2008 budget, a deficit budget and the first of his majority government, the Canadian economy was being lauded internationally for its resilience in spite of the American collapse. 0: http://www.canadaka.net/forums/federal-elections-f43/trudeau-deficit-plan-will-sink-canadians-t113561-90.html http://www.canadaka.net/forums/federal-elections-f43/trudeau...
soperj 10y ago
Our Obama? How so? Obama campaigned on change. The only thing that is a change w/ the way the liberals do things is they're going to legalize marijuana. Everything else is just icing on the same cake.
DKnoll 10y ago
1. The value of the Canadian dollar right now is much closer to the historical norm than it was when at parity for a relatively short period. 2. The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. 3. That's true, and to be honest, I'm glad it's expensive. Expensive means there is something and/or someone there worth saving. I would argue the Halifax explosion was far more decimating, but cost significantly less to respond to, as everything and everyone was there one minute and gone the next. Canada is and was doing fine. As much as my heart breaks for Fort McMurray, in a country this large, most of us are a world away (Ontario myself) and it has had little tangible impact on us beyond a marginal increase in gas prices. No offense, but Trudeau is not 'our Obama.' Trudeau is the son of a former Prime Minister who is attempting to implement dramatic social reforms just as his father did. Despite the easy comparison of Democrats to Liberals and Conservatives to Republicans, when you actually look at their policies it's clear they do not reside at the same points on the political spectrum.
- thinkloop 10y ago
  The Obama comparison resonated with me - not in the specifics like policy, or how left/right they are - but in spirit, level of excitement and general sexiness. Obama after bush feels alot like Trudeau after Harper.
  - deleted 10y ago
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  - ramy_d 10y ago
    I understand, and at times share, the sentiment. But it's important for us not to confuse policy and enthusiasm.
- adventured 10y ago
  > The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. That's blatantly incorrect. - The US unemployment rate is 9.7% on the U6. The Canadian equivalent would be closer to 13%-15% [1] (the Canadian R8 is not the equivalent of the U6). That's not a marginal difference, it's a significant difference. The US U6 rate peaked at near 18%, six years ago. A 50% reduction is a very obvious signal that the recession ended a long time ago. The U6 rate before the recession in 2006 was 9%. If the recession had never ended, the U6 rate would still be extremely elevated. - The US has gained a massive number of full-time jobs since the recession. That metric is at a record high. [2a] [2b] - Total US employment is six million higher than the peak before the recession. - US manufacturing output is at all-time highs and has climbed dramatically since the recession [3]. Total construction spending on manufacturing in the US is three to four times higher than it was in 2002-2006. None of that would be happening if the US were in recession. - Real hourly earnings have been expanding since 2012-2013 [4]. While simultaneously inflation has been tame by most measures. Hourly earnings are about 7% higher than 2006. If the recession hadn't ended, that would not be the case. - Government tax revenue, which is highly dependent on income taxes, is at record highs. - The labor force participation rate has been stable for three years, despite millions of boomers retiring. - In terms of income vs debt, US households have dramatically de-leveraged from the debt highs leading up to the great recession, and are in far better shape than Canadian households [5a] [5b]. - US household median disposable incomes are among the highest on earth. That metric obviously would not be doing so well if the US had spent the last ten years in a recession. US GDP per capita is ranked #5 out of all nations, 25% higher than Canada - an excellent sign of high economic productivity. [6] So US economic productivity is extremely high, US unemployment has fallen by 50% back to a historically healthy level, full-time employment is at record highs, wage growth has been outpacing inflation for years, household income to debt ratios have improved dramatically, household balance sheets have never been higher, manufacturing output is at record highs. Uh, so what's the problem exactly? [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/canadas-unemployment-numbers-understate-labour-underutilization/article15808961/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ec... [2a] http://i.imgur.com/ERDhQLZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ERDhQLZ.jpg [2b] http://i.imgur.com/zCC6ytm.png http://i.imgur.com/zCC6ytm.png [3] https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/OUTMS https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/OUTMS [4] http://i.imgur.com/5Q7c27x.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5Q7c27x.jpg [5a] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadians-debt-burden-still-growing-hits-record-in-fourth-quarter/article29172712/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ca... [5b] http://business.financialpost.com/investing/outlook-2016/canadians-household-debt-highest-in-g7-with-crunch-on-brink-of-historic-levels-pbo-warns http://business.financialpost.com/investing/outlook-2016/can... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no...
dghughes 10y ago
No we're not in trouble. Massive mining industry including potash, precious ore and diamonds. Massive hydroelectric power system (Northeastern US guess where much of your power comes from). Massive agriculture industry Massive seafood industry Massive forest industry Add to that movies, music, manufacturing, cars, steel mills, shipbuilding ($26B ship contract near me), munitions and software industry. We used to have some pretty good hardware too remember Matrox and ATI video cards? Oil and gas aren't the only things we produce but even so there is also a lot of it on the east coast.
- snowwindwaves 10y ago
  I think fishing and forestry are both shadows of what they once were
duaneb 10y ago
Well, long term this may be healthy for the economy and unemployment. Hardly polite conversation, but this allows infrastructure upgrades on a massive scale, which implies employment of many and an increased cash flow for the region.
fuddle 10y ago
If it's in so much trouble, why are property prices increasing at a ridiculous rate? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/toronto-home-prices-soar-as-fears-of-the-b-word-mount-in-vancouver/article30257082/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-busine...
- kitcar 10y ago
  1) Extremely low interest rates combined with government backed mortgages (CMHC) means lots of people now have mortgages they will be unable to carry if interests rates rise by 1% (as that would be a 50% increase in their interest payments...) 2) Foreign investment (Vancouver+Toronto).
- branchless 10y ago
  my word - that's a key sign they are in trouble...
danjayh 10y ago
Fixed: Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. # They got their Obama.
patmcc 10y ago
Anecdotally, most people I know and talk to in Canada (myself included) are doing fine; the low dollar hurts if you want imports or to travel abroad, but is good for exports and tourism. Alberta is hurting because of oil, but other provinces are doing decently well employment wise.
- astrodust 10y ago
  Film industry is going berserk. It's like they can't film enough things here now.
cmrdporcupine 10y ago
A lower Canadian dollar is good for Canada. We are an export economy. It's not great for consumers, but the dollar isn't even that bad right now. It has been far lower, and during 'boom' times.

fudged71 10y ago

On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. Calgary's downtown office towers have reached record high vacancy rates, with so many engineers laid off. I'm hoping this is an opportunity for tech companies to take notice and move in.

wrong_variable 10y ago
Interesting to know. I have been thinking of moving to Canada due to all the good things I hear from my Canadian friends. But I get conflicting view from the news and statistics.
- Teever 10y ago
  I hope you understand that unless you have a job lined up or citizenship it is somewhat difficult to move to Canada. If I may make a modest suggestion perhaps try visiting Canada for a period of time in a region where you would want to eventually live instead of relying on the opinions of your friends (who may be biased) or statistics (which may not tell the whole story.)
  - ced 10y ago
    Many countries can get work-holiday visas to Canada. It's a very nice deal, and you can get "serious" jobs with it, too.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- serge2k 10y ago
  Move to BC. It's great. Unless you like cities and want to ever own a house, but don't worry about that.
- Pxtl 10y ago
  Canada is big. Calgary is one small part, and that guy was exaggerating anyways. Let's remember that Calgary elected mayor Naheed Nenshi, a famously liberal Muslim who is pushing for better transit and more intensification. Iirc, Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP, a hard leftward swing of Alberta politics against the long control of the Progressive Conservative party. But yes, the pay sucks for coders outside of Vancouver and Toronto, and there the insane housing market makes it not worth it anyways.
  - riphay 10y ago
    > Calgary was also the provincial stronghold of the NDP Correction: Edmonton is the stronghold of the NDP. Premier Notley's seat in the Legislature is in Edmonton's Strathcona riding, and I believe before last year Edmonton was the only city to elect NDP MLA's. Calgary has always been a Progressive Conservative stronghold.
  - fudged71 10y ago
    He's pushing for better public transit, not necessarily private transit ;) #UberScandal
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Calgary has been die hard right wing for years. Edmonton is the stronghold for the NDP. And historically that was always the case. (I'm old enough to remember Jan Reimer as mayor in the 80s...)
derefr 10y ago
Your mention of Alberta made me realize—the low dollar, the unemployment, and the wildfire are all hitting the province of Alberta in particular. (Respectively, oil dollars, oil jobs, and oil sands, may be responsible.) And the three are intertwined: the fires aren't just destroying nature and wildlife, they're destroying liquid-asset real estate and arable farmland (i.e. jobs) as well. A lot of people are going to be suddenly qualified for income assistance in Alberta this year. If Alberta were its own country—as a few of their conservative pundits have semi-jokingly called for—this would be the point where you'd start to see pleas for international relief aid on the news, like those from Indonesia after the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami. Instead, the Canadian government is going to have to try to soak up all those losses on its own. I wonder if its treasury is even that big?
- soperj 10y ago
  If Alberta were it's own country their coffers would have been much bigger to deal with this mess. They probably would have also have accepted firefighters right away from other countries instead of waiting. They're is really no farmland up near fort mac. Don't know how farmland jobs are being destroyed?
  - cdmckay 10y ago
    Considering how they managed their Heritage Trust Fund, I somehow doubt that.
    - soperj 10y ago
      They have over 18 billion still in the fund.
burnguy123 10y ago
I am not sure this is going to happen. Calgary is a very conservative city, very little public transportation, a terrible cab system (and a city council who opposes alternatives), terrible road network (especially crowchild) no nightlife and very conservative drug and alcohol laws. Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd), so the good ones just move the the USA or work remotely. I don't see Calgary becoming a booming tech scene anytime soon.
- wesd 10y ago
  >Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian I have to disagree with that statement. As an example, here is a system admin job posting by City of Calgary. The pay range is $77,891 - 117,609 per annum https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_HRAM.HRS_CE.GBL?Page=HRS_CE_JOB_DTL&JobOpeningId=207371&PostingSeq=1&SiteId=1 https://recruiting.calgary.ca/psc/pdhr/EMPLOYEE/HRMS/c/HRS_H...
  - maerF0x0 10y ago
    Those city and CBE jobs are few and far between and usually pay much higher than private jobs. The 77k is starting wage more or less no matter what seniority and rises with yrs of service in the union. I think most intermediate / senior engineers can make 75k a year, but starting is very low, like 50k.
    - TheGeminon 10y ago
      That seems really wrong to me. I work for TELUS and starting wages for entry level programming positions is around the 55k-70k, and then for more intermediate positions (something like 5 years experience) you are looking at 70-100K
- msbarnett 10y ago
  > Software engineerings in Calgary are lucky to make 70k canadian (54k usd) That sounds low to me. Rates in Edmonton are considerably higher and I doubt Calgary skews that much lower. Hand-wavy, since it varies by exact variety of software you're doing, but I'd say that was more than 20k+ below market for intermediate-senior exp. Still lower than the US, of course.
asteadman 10y ago
I can only hope, but i'm not optimistic. Diversification seems a long way off.
jlos 10y ago
>> On the bright side, it is opening up some long-overdue political dialogue. For example diversification of the Alberta economy away from natural resources. As far as I know, Alberta's provincial government hasn't prevented growth in other sectors. Natural resources have made a lot of sense, giving their abundance here. And despite the roller coaster ride of natural resources, the province's finances are some of the healthiest in the entire country: - Lowest Debt-GDP ratio in the country (-1.2% for Alberta, compared with 39.6% in Ontario and 49.6% in Quebec) - No Provincial Sales Tax - 3rd highest spending per capita, next to SK and NL (30% higher than Ontario and 43% higher than Quebec) - GDP/Capita almost double of every other province And all of that doesn't include the transfer payments which go out to the Eastern Provinces. All that to say, I do hope your right and the tech ccene is Alberta can grow from current vacancies and other problems in the province. I think the province could really benefit from some natural growth in other sectors. [0] http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial-forecasts/prov_fiscal.pdf http://www.rbc.com/economics/economic-reports/pdf/provincial... [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canada https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equalization_payments_in_Canad...
cmrdporcupine 10y ago
The city in Alberta that makes more sense for an software engineering industry is Edmonton. The University of Alberta is one of the top CS/engineering schools on the continent. I keep mentioning this to my coworkers at Google. A second Canadian engineering office in Edmonton would be awesome. And then I could move closer to my family.
- zzalpha 10y ago
  Please no. With the oil downturn we can finally find qualified software devs to hire... the last thing we need is Google snapping them up!
  - walshemj 10y ago
    Why you want to depress our wages ?
    - zzalpha 10y ago
      No, just supply. During the more heated oil years no one was looking for a job. And this might come as a surprise, but that actually makes it really hard to hire, even if you have competitive offers. This might be different in other markets where job hopping is common and the overall supply of qualified hires is high (Edmonton often loses out to Calgary and Vancouver), but you don't see that as much here, unfortunately.
      - walshemj 10y ago
        Same difference you just weren't offering enough $ or an interesting job to attract people.
        deleted 10y ago
        [deleted]
  - cmrdporcupine 10y ago
    Who is we and what are you hiring for?

serge2k 10y ago

> At least they got their Obama. What? Obama wasn't elected on the strength of nice hair and Daddy's legacy.

soperj 10y ago
His dad has a horrible legacy out west.
- serge2k 10y ago
  The west doesn't tend to have a lot of influence. Especially when a candidate is popular out east (Ontario and Quebec). When it's conservatives coming to power it's different since Quebec tends to avoid voting conservative. I'm from BC. Polls close and the victory is called before votes even results even really start coming in.
  - thinkloop 10y ago
    That's not a representation of influence, if timezones were reversed the same would happen with Quebec, minus the larger population.
    - hluska 10y ago
      With all due respect, I don't think you understand how the Canadian system works. Out of 338 seats in our parliament, 231 are held in Ontario and points east.
- auxym 10y ago
  Pierre Trudeau is not not very appreciated by a large proportion of Quebecers: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Meeting https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kitchen_Meeting
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
10y ago

msbarnett 10y ago

> # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! I wouldn't get too hung up on that -- historically that's a fairly decent rate for Canada. For a variety of reasons (difference in the way the rate is measured, and structural differences between the two countries) Canada's unemployment rate has generally been several points higher than the US since the late-70s. At least one analysis I've seen of the structural differences pinned the higher rate on the fact that unemployed Canadians were more likely to be seeking to return to the workforce than US counterparts, inflating the number since they don't "drop out" of the workforce entirely. edit: and the low dollar is a mixed bag. Higher basic good prices, but somewhat of a protective for middle-class manufacturing jobs.

Shivetya 10y ago

No offense but based on what happened here point #4 isn't profit. However if you read up on him they may have gotten closer to a Sanders if anything. Based on his actions he has try to what Obama promised to do (Transparency, cabinet mandate and such is publicly available) but never intended to do. The question that exist is, will his continued openness/transparency in governance keep alive the honeymoon period long enough to deliver on the large number of promises made in an unfriendly economy. You can promise the moon but economics will not let him deliver it.

canadiana 10y ago

I had to create an account to reply to this. Surreal. "# Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar." The Canadian dollar is currently at 0.772, which is historically pretty much the natural level for several decades. When the oil spike caused the dollar to rise, it gutted manufacturing and other exports because they had come to rely upon the lower rate. As it dropped these industries revitalized. "# Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% !" Surreal. An unemployment rate of 7.1% is far below the going average for the past several decades. Countries with stronger social nets universally have higher unemployment rates as people are less obligated to take terrible employment situations just to survive. I feel like some right winger from the US is giving their "take", to the detriment of all.

dleslie 10y ago

In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". [0][1] Canada's unemployment rate of 7.1% is normal. [2] 0: The 80s were turbulent: http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-history-dollar/ http://www.cbc.ca/news2/interactives/map-history-dollar/ 1: There was a spike and collapse where you'd recently expect: http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12/canadian-dollar-to-us-dollar-indx-chart-16-dec-2015.png http://www.profitconfidential.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/12... 2: Historical unemployment data: http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.jsp?iid=16 http://well-being.esdc.gc.ca/misme-iowb/.3ndic.1t.4r@-eng.js...

MustardTiger 10y ago
>In a historical sense, Canadian dollar isn't particularly low, at least not so low that I would call it "massive flooring". There was only one period of history where we were this badly fucked. And that was when this idiot's father was PM and destroyed our economy. It took 3 decades to pay back the debt he created and have our dollar recover. And now it is happening again.
- dleslie 10y ago
  It happened again, already. Harper contributed the largest deficits and the biggest total new debt of any PM; and he started -before- the 2008 crisis.
  - MustardTiger 10y ago
    >Harper contributed the largest deficits and the biggest total new debt of any PM; Neither of those statements are correct. Do leftists seriously just make up nonsense because they like the way it sounds?
    - dleslie 10y ago
      My apologies, Mulroney was worse[0]; as a conservative I tend to block Mulroney from my memory. At the time of Harper's 2008 budget, a deficit budget and the first of his majority government, the Canadian economy was being lauded internationally for its resilience in spite of the American collapse. 0: http://www.canadaka.net/forums/federal-elections-f43/trudeau-deficit-plan-will-sink-canadians-t113561-90.html http://www.canadaka.net/forums/federal-elections-f43/trudeau...

soperj 10y ago

Our Obama? How so? Obama campaigned on change. The only thing that is a change w/ the way the liberals do things is they're going to legalize marijuana. Everything else is just icing on the same cake.

DKnoll 10y ago

1. The value of the Canadian dollar right now is much closer to the historical norm than it was when at parity for a relatively short period. 2. The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. 3. That's true, and to be honest, I'm glad it's expensive. Expensive means there is something and/or someone there worth saving. I would argue the Halifax explosion was far more decimating, but cost significantly less to respond to, as everything and everyone was there one minute and gone the next. Canada is and was doing fine. As much as my heart breaks for Fort McMurray, in a country this large, most of us are a world away (Ontario myself) and it has had little tangible impact on us beyond a marginal increase in gas prices. No offense, but Trudeau is not 'our Obama.' Trudeau is the son of a former Prime Minister who is attempting to implement dramatic social reforms just as his father did. Despite the easy comparison of Democrats to Liberals and Conservatives to Republicans, when you actually look at their policies it's clear they do not reside at the same points on the political spectrum.

thinkloop 10y ago
The Obama comparison resonated with me - not in the specifics like policy, or how left/right they are - but in spirit, level of excitement and general sexiness. Obama after bush feels alot like Trudeau after Harper.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ramy_d 10y ago
  I understand, and at times share, the sentiment. But it's important for us not to confuse policy and enthusiasm.
adventured 10y ago
> The unemployment rate is marginally higher than in the USA. It's bad here, but it's bad over there too... the recession never ended. That's blatantly incorrect. - The US unemployment rate is 9.7% on the U6. The Canadian equivalent would be closer to 13%-15% [1] (the Canadian R8 is not the equivalent of the U6). That's not a marginal difference, it's a significant difference. The US U6 rate peaked at near 18%, six years ago. A 50% reduction is a very obvious signal that the recession ended a long time ago. The U6 rate before the recession in 2006 was 9%. If the recession had never ended, the U6 rate would still be extremely elevated. - The US has gained a massive number of full-time jobs since the recession. That metric is at a record high. [2a] [2b] - Total US employment is six million higher than the peak before the recession. - US manufacturing output is at all-time highs and has climbed dramatically since the recession [3]. Total construction spending on manufacturing in the US is three to four times higher than it was in 2002-2006. None of that would be happening if the US were in recession. - Real hourly earnings have been expanding since 2012-2013 [4]. While simultaneously inflation has been tame by most measures. Hourly earnings are about 7% higher than 2006. If the recession hadn't ended, that would not be the case. - Government tax revenue, which is highly dependent on income taxes, is at record highs. - The labor force participation rate has been stable for three years, despite millions of boomers retiring. - In terms of income vs debt, US households have dramatically de-leveraged from the debt highs leading up to the great recession, and are in far better shape than Canadian households [5a] [5b]. - US household median disposable incomes are among the highest on earth. That metric obviously would not be doing so well if the US had spent the last ten years in a recession. US GDP per capita is ranked #5 out of all nations, 25% higher than Canada - an excellent sign of high economic productivity. [6] So US economic productivity is extremely high, US unemployment has fallen by 50% back to a historically healthy level, full-time employment is at record highs, wage growth has been outpacing inflation for years, household income to debt ratios have improved dramatically, household balance sheets have never been higher, manufacturing output is at record highs. Uh, so what's the problem exactly? [1] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/economy-lab/canadas-unemployment-numbers-understate-labour-underutilization/article15808961/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ec... [2a] http://i.imgur.com/ERDhQLZ.jpg http://i.imgur.com/ERDhQLZ.jpg [2b] http://i.imgur.com/zCC6ytm.png http://i.imgur.com/zCC6ytm.png [3] https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/OUTMS https://research.stlouisfed.org/fred2/series/OUTMS [4] http://i.imgur.com/5Q7c27x.jpg http://i.imgur.com/5Q7c27x.jpg [5a] http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/canadians-debt-burden-still-growing-hits-record-in-fourth-quarter/article29172712/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/economy/ca... [5b] http://business.financialpost.com/investing/outlook-2016/canadians-household-debt-highest-in-g7-with-crunch-on-brink-of-historic-levels-pbo-warns http://business.financialpost.com/investing/outlook-2016/can... [6] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28nominal%29_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_GDP_%28no...

dghughes 10y ago

No we're not in trouble. Massive mining industry including potash, precious ore and diamonds. Massive hydroelectric power system (Northeastern US guess where much of your power comes from). Massive agriculture industry Massive seafood industry Massive forest industry Add to that movies, music, manufacturing, cars, steel mills, shipbuilding ($26B ship contract near me), munitions and software industry. We used to have some pretty good hardware too remember Matrox and ATI video cards? Oil and gas aren't the only things we produce but even so there is also a lot of it on the east coast.

snowwindwaves 10y ago
I think fishing and forestry are both shadows of what they once were

duaneb 10y ago

Well, long term this may be healthy for the economy and unemployment. Hardly polite conversation, but this allows infrastructure upgrades on a massive scale, which implies employment of many and an increased cash flow for the region.

fuddle 10y ago

If it's in so much trouble, why are property prices increasing at a ridiculous rate? http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-business-stories/toronto-home-prices-soar-as-fears-of-the-b-word-mount-in-vancouver/article30257082/ http://www.theglobeandmail.com/report-on-business/top-busine...

kitcar 10y ago
1) Extremely low interest rates combined with government backed mortgages (CMHC) means lots of people now have mortgages they will be unable to carry if interests rates rise by 1% (as that would be a 50% increase in their interest payments...) 2) Foreign investment (Vancouver+Toronto).
branchless 10y ago
my word - that's a key sign they are in trouble...

danjayh 10y ago

Fixed: Canada seems to be in so much trouble - I am wondering how things are there. # Massive flooring of the Canadian dollar. # Continued job losses months on end - Unemployment rate of 7.1% ! # Most expensive Natural Disaster in Canadian history. # They got their Obama.

patmcc 10y ago

Anecdotally, most people I know and talk to in Canada (myself included) are doing fine; the low dollar hurts if you want imports or to travel abroad, but is good for exports and tourism. Alberta is hurting because of oil, but other provinces are doing decently well employment wise.

astrodust 10y ago
Film industry is going berserk. It's like they can't film enough things here now.

cmrdporcupine 10y ago

A lower Canadian dollar is good for Canada. We are an export economy. It's not great for consumers, but the dollar isn't even that bad right now. It has been far lower, and during 'boom' times.