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For a company whose primary product is/was the Nest Thermostat, I've found they have been terrible at innovation and keeping up with competition. The product ha

by manav 10y ago

For a company whose primary product is/was the Nest Thermostat, I've found they have been terrible at innovation and keeping up with competition. The product has been virtually unchanged for the last 3-4 years. What have they been up to? I switched to an Ecobee3 system and found it was far superior in many ways. Alexa integration, remote sensors (for actual temperature measurements in rooms), easier install and compatibility if you don't have power going to thermostat, better wifi, touchscreen interface. With Google Home coming I wonder what this means for Nest. Maybe it will be fully absorbed into Google?

X86BSD 10y ago
+1 For Ecobee. After wanting a "smart" thermostat for some time and researching and researching nothing really blew my socks off. But the Ecobee was the closest one to impressing me. So I finally pulled the trigger for downstairs. It's been doing great and I love the features. So now it's time to put one upstairs. If you are thinking of the Ecobee, do it! :)
- praveenster 10y ago
  SDGE is offering free Ecobee installs. Check with your local electric company, they might be offering it for free too. We got two units installed and really love it.
  - zippergz 10y ago
    They actually give you the unit for free, or just the installation labor?
    - thecosas 10y ago
      More info here (albeit vague): http://www.sdge.com/business/programmable-communicating-thermostats http://www.sdge.com/business/programmable-communicating-ther...
    - praveenster 10y ago
      Everything. Free units, install and configuration. Additionally, during high consumption periods, SDGE will offer incentives if you shut your AC. It is super convenient to do this even if you are not at home.
zippergz 10y ago
This is interesting. I have had Nest thermostats for several years, and overall I think they're great, but I have definitely felt the need for remote sensors (our upstairs thermostat in particular is in a really bad spot). A couple of months ago I seriously considered getting an Ecobee, but I read a bunch of reviews that complained of stuff like unresponsive touchscreen, bad UI, etc. The main thing I love about the Nest is that the UX is very simple, and works well. Anyone in the house can use it without instructions, and it feels like a thermostat, not a slow Android device or something. Did you find those to not be issues? Definitely most of the reviews were good, so maybe it's just isolated people having problems. But I couldn't tell if it was that, or more that people either aren't as picky about UX as I am, or they didn't have another point of comparison... I'm very open to re-considering them if someone can convince me this stuff is a non-issue, because the remote sensor would certainly make our system work better.
- tcoppi 10y ago
  I've had an ecobee 3 since November, and the UX has been very responsive and intuitive to me. My wife can use it well enough to set manual away and temperature overrides, which is pretty much all that you might need to do after you've set it up. The android and ios apps are nothing special, basically just a clone of the thermostat's UI itself, but they work. The web app is very good, and the graphs are very nice and useful, including the ability to export all data as a csv. I've never used a Nest so I don't know how it compares but I'm quite happy with the ecobee.
- skolos 10y ago
  I had same reservations as you before I bought my first Ecobee3. I probably read same negative reviews as you. However the thermostat worked very well for me, without all the issues that I've read. I bought two more over the year. In terms of UI and ease of use - I prefer a thermostat with which I don't need to fiddle after I program it. Ecobee3's programming and automatic features worked well for my family in two zones. Kitchen zone (used mostly by my wife) was impossible to program to her satisfaction but integration with Amazon Echo solved the issue.
- dmritard96 10y ago
einrealist 10y ago
I guess, hardware is far more complex than writing the next Twitter. Plus, if you are bought by another company, expect product development to stall due to changes and people who don't like changes.
- rconti 10y ago
  Except the parent was specifically referring to a competing thermostat. My folks have an Ecobee and if I didn't have a Nest already, I might consider it. The remote sensors are a huge plus.
UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
Can the Ecobee3 be installed without the dreaded C wire? edit: Nope. You lose fan control. The Nest cannot, well it CAN, but you lose fan control in the process making it worthless. I never understood why no thermostat supports alternative power, considering tons of property would be an easy installation without the rarely available C wire. Quick shout out for the Honeywell Wi-Fi Smart Touchscreen Thermostat. It too requires the C wire, costs the same as Nest, but has a much better touch interface than the Nest while providing the same-ish automatic functionality.
- Infernal 10y ago
  Yup: https://www.ecobee.com/faq/i-do-not-have-a-c-wire-or-common-wire-can-i-install-ecobee-residential-thermostats/ https://www.ecobee.com/faq/i-do-not-have-a-c-wire-or-common-...
- tcoppi 10y ago
  You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up, and any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard.
  - UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
    > You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Read page 12 of their guide. The PEK requires additional connectors that not all systems even have. A lot of people will lose fan control, just like the Nest. > Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up Our house was built in 1998, doesn't have it, a coworker's house was built in 2005 and had to get it installed for their Nest ($120 callout + $120 in time), the in-laws returned a Nest because their home from roughly 2001-02 lacked it. Where are you getting this information? There's nothing in building codes that requires running the C wire, so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not. > any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard. Running wires behind walls isn't trivial in an already built home. Least of all if you're going up two to three floors.
rwl4 10y ago
I have been incredibly frustrated with how they acquired Dropcam and completely killed not only the soul of the company, but real features the existing devices already had. The setup process for the Dropcam was absolutely magical. You plug a new one in, open the app and it would configure the camera via Bluetooth 4.0. You could then go back in and change WiFi settings by simply being near enough for the Bluetooth 4.0 connection. Then Nest bought them, and completely removed that feature. They issued a firmware update that made it so now the camera that used to have this wonderful feature now requires me to plug it into my computer's USB and execute some janky app from a flash drive. Of course, if you buy one of their new devices, you a setup process somewhat similar to the original Dropcam. But existing customers are out of luck. In fact, the Dropcam Pro included a 1080P sensor but they did not enable it for various reasons. When Nest released their flavor of the camera, they enabled 1080P, but not for existing Dropcam Pro customers. The DVR functionality is inferior too. I wish I could get a refund. I personally feel like it is a bait and switch scenario. :(
- AdamJacobMuller 10y ago
  I haven't setup any of the new Nest cameras, they REMOVED bluetooth? Completely non-sensical. The new Nest app on the phone is just now, finally reaching feature parity years and years later and its still not fully there. The 1080p debacle is terrible as well, they also compress the hell out of video now, it feels far worse than when I first got my cameras years ago (presumably to save on the storage space I'm paying quite a bit for). It's funny, you rarely know the moment a company goes off the rails but I know exactly when it happened for me, for Dropcam. I was out to dinner a year or so ago and all of us who had Dropcams got emails from nest about needing to migrate to nest accounts, and found that: A) our access to our camera's was completely cut-off B) the migration process was completely broken, at first we thought just on mobile but it still didn't work when I got back to a computer, it took a few DAYS before I could migrate my account and access my cameras again. This was terrible, I was 1000 miles from home and unable to access any of my cameras, I completely lost faith in the company at that moment and I know all of my friends did too.
  - vonklaus 10y ago
supergeek133 10y ago
The problem with temperature sensors is where you put it... if you put it upstairs and run that temp down to say 78 in the summer.. the rest of your house (especially the basement) is an icebox. That's the problem with so called 'lazy zoning'. However that being said, if you want something like this and don't have an ecobee, SmartThings starter kit comes with multiple sensors that read temperature.
- cmurphycode 10y ago
  From talking to my colleague with an ecobee, that's not the point. If the ecobee detects a big swing between the two sensors, it'll run the fan, but not the heat/cool. That balances the rooms. It makes sense.
  - supergeek133 10y ago
    Yeah, I get that. I was speaking generally about what that does. That's how Ecobee works, but even still I'm sure it's not perfect. (I haven't tried it myself, just similar types of setups).
asafira 10y ago
I, too, have been wondering what the hell they have been up to. Their most recent thermostat upgrade was kind of a joke.

by manav 10y ago

X86BSD 10y ago

+1 For Ecobee. After wanting a "smart" thermostat for some time and researching and researching nothing really blew my socks off. But the Ecobee was the closest one to impressing me. So I finally pulled the trigger for downstairs. It's been doing great and I love the features. So now it's time to put one upstairs. If you are thinking of the Ecobee, do it! :)

praveenster 10y ago
SDGE is offering free Ecobee installs. Check with your local electric company, they might be offering it for free too. We got two units installed and really love it.
- zippergz 10y ago
  They actually give you the unit for free, or just the installation labor?
  - thecosas 10y ago
    More info here (albeit vague): http://www.sdge.com/business/programmable-communicating-thermostats http://www.sdge.com/business/programmable-communicating-ther...
  - praveenster 10y ago
    Everything. Free units, install and configuration. Additionally, during high consumption periods, SDGE will offer incentives if you shut your AC. It is super convenient to do this even if you are not at home.

zippergz 10y ago

This is interesting. I have had Nest thermostats for several years, and overall I think they're great, but I have definitely felt the need for remote sensors (our upstairs thermostat in particular is in a really bad spot). A couple of months ago I seriously considered getting an Ecobee, but I read a bunch of reviews that complained of stuff like unresponsive touchscreen, bad UI, etc. The main thing I love about the Nest is that the UX is very simple, and works well. Anyone in the house can use it without instructions, and it feels like a thermostat, not a slow Android device or something. Did you find those to not be issues? Definitely most of the reviews were good, so maybe it's just isolated people having problems. But I couldn't tell if it was that, or more that people either aren't as picky about UX as I am, or they didn't have another point of comparison... I'm very open to re-considering them if someone can convince me this stuff is a non-issue, because the remote sensor would certainly make our system work better.

tcoppi 10y ago
I've had an ecobee 3 since November, and the UX has been very responsive and intuitive to me. My wife can use it well enough to set manual away and temperature overrides, which is pretty much all that you might need to do after you've set it up. The android and ios apps are nothing special, basically just a clone of the thermostat's UI itself, but they work. The web app is very good, and the graphs are very nice and useful, including the ability to export all data as a csv. I've never used a Nest so I don't know how it compares but I'm quite happy with the ecobee.
skolos 10y ago
I had same reservations as you before I bought my first Ecobee3. I probably read same negative reviews as you. However the thermostat worked very well for me, without all the issues that I've read. I bought two more over the year. In terms of UI and ease of use - I prefer a thermostat with which I don't need to fiddle after I program it. Ecobee3's programming and automatic features worked well for my family in two zones. Kitchen zone (used mostly by my wife) was impossible to program to her satisfaction but integration with Amazon Echo solved the issue.
dmritard96 10y ago

einrealist 10y ago

I guess, hardware is far more complex than writing the next Twitter. Plus, if you are bought by another company, expect product development to stall due to changes and people who don't like changes.

rconti 10y ago
Except the parent was specifically referring to a competing thermostat. My folks have an Ecobee and if I didn't have a Nest already, I might consider it. The remote sensors are a huge plus.

UnoriginalGuy 10y ago

Can the Ecobee3 be installed without the dreaded C wire? edit: Nope. You lose fan control. The Nest cannot, well it CAN, but you lose fan control in the process making it worthless. I never understood why no thermostat supports alternative power, considering tons of property would be an easy installation without the rarely available C wire. Quick shout out for the Honeywell Wi-Fi Smart Touchscreen Thermostat. It too requires the C wire, costs the same as Nest, but has a much better touch interface than the Nest while providing the same-ish automatic functionality.

Infernal 10y ago
Yup: https://www.ecobee.com/faq/i-do-not-have-a-c-wire-or-common-wire-can-i-install-ecobee-residential-thermostats/ https://www.ecobee.com/faq/i-do-not-have-a-c-wire-or-common-...
tcoppi 10y ago
You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up, and any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard.
- UnoriginalGuy 10y ago
  > You don't lose fan control with the ecobee3 Power Extender Kit. Read page 12 of their guide. The PEK requires additional connectors that not all systems even have. A lot of people will lose fan control, just like the Nest. > Also, the C wire is not rarely available, basically any house since the early 90s will have one already wired up Our house was built in 1998, doesn't have it, a coworker's house was built in 2005 and had to get it installed for their Nest ($120 callout + $120 in time), the in-laws returned a Nest because their home from roughly 2001-02 lacked it. Where are you getting this information? There's nothing in building codes that requires running the C wire, so builders will only run it if the thermostat requires it and most included ones do not. > any house that has upgraded hvac unit in say the last 15 years will have the capacity to install one by running a wire to the mainboard. Running wires behind walls isn't trivial in an already built home. Least of all if you're going up two to three floors.

rwl4 10y ago

I have been incredibly frustrated with how they acquired Dropcam and completely killed not only the soul of the company, but real features the existing devices already had. The setup process for the Dropcam was absolutely magical. You plug a new one in, open the app and it would configure the camera via Bluetooth 4.0. You could then go back in and change WiFi settings by simply being near enough for the Bluetooth 4.0 connection. Then Nest bought them, and completely removed that feature. They issued a firmware update that made it so now the camera that used to have this wonderful feature now requires me to plug it into my computer's USB and execute some janky app from a flash drive. Of course, if you buy one of their new devices, you a setup process somewhat similar to the original Dropcam. But existing customers are out of luck. In fact, the Dropcam Pro included a 1080P sensor but they did not enable it for various reasons. When Nest released their flavor of the camera, they enabled 1080P, but not for existing Dropcam Pro customers. The DVR functionality is inferior too. I wish I could get a refund. I personally feel like it is a bait and switch scenario. :(

AdamJacobMuller 10y ago
I haven't setup any of the new Nest cameras, they REMOVED bluetooth? Completely non-sensical. The new Nest app on the phone is just now, finally reaching feature parity years and years later and its still not fully there. The 1080p debacle is terrible as well, they also compress the hell out of video now, it feels far worse than when I first got my cameras years ago (presumably to save on the storage space I'm paying quite a bit for). It's funny, you rarely know the moment a company goes off the rails but I know exactly when it happened for me, for Dropcam. I was out to dinner a year or so ago and all of us who had Dropcams got emails from nest about needing to migrate to nest accounts, and found that: A) our access to our camera's was completely cut-off B) the migration process was completely broken, at first we thought just on mobile but it still didn't work when I got back to a computer, it took a few DAYS before I could migrate my account and access my cameras again. This was terrible, I was 1000 miles from home and unable to access any of my cameras, I completely lost faith in the company at that moment and I know all of my friends did too.
- vonklaus 10y ago

supergeek133 10y ago

The problem with temperature sensors is where you put it... if you put it upstairs and run that temp down to say 78 in the summer.. the rest of your house (especially the basement) is an icebox. That's the problem with so called 'lazy zoning'. However that being said, if you want something like this and don't have an ecobee, SmartThings starter kit comes with multiple sensors that read temperature.

cmurphycode 10y ago
From talking to my colleague with an ecobee, that's not the point. If the ecobee detects a big swing between the two sensors, it'll run the fan, but not the heat/cool. That balances the rooms. It makes sense.
- supergeek133 10y ago
  Yeah, I get that. I was speaking generally about what that does. That's how Ecobee works, but even still I'm sure it's not perfect. (I haven't tried it myself, just similar types of setups).

asafira 10y ago

I, too, have been wondering what the hell they have been up to. Their most recent thermostat upgrade was kind of a joke.