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One of his essays has a counterpoint to this. It's an incident that takes place early in his career. He's pretty proud of his newfound success as a writer. Whi

One of his essays has a counterpoint to this. It's an incident that takes place early in his career. He's pretty proud of his newfound success as a writer. While talking over his finances with his accountant, it turns out that after taxes, expenses, and his agent's cut that he made about as much as he would as a plumber.

api 10y ago
That's standard issue in the book and movie contract experience, especially for new entrants. The tech industry is really remarkable for not being abusive to founders and developers. If you think VC terms can be bad, look at what musicians and writers get dealt. Even onerous VC liquidation preferences and ratchet terms or down round dilution is nothing compared to what gets done to your favorite band. I think it's because techies, while not necessarily MBAs, tend to read the fine print and not be quite as ignorant of business as your average artist. It's also because it's a new growing industry, while art/music/writing is a stagnant old one.
- true_religion 10y ago
  Also techies can self-fund for small ventures. Unlike musicians, a typical 'techie' can pull in near 100k per year and save it to fund their side-projects while working, or taking a long sabbatical with a few friends to work on a startup. Musicians get paid a lot less even when they aren't trying to make it 'big'.
- lotyrin 10y ago
  I imagine there's plenty of artists that read the fine print, couldn't stomach the terms, and were consequently never heard of. Others decided they didn't mind the terms and the odds, some of those made it. Software founders are just more likely to be from a social class where saying no to bad terms means you can still possibly succeed, and so the market doesn't bear bids of particularly bad terms.
  - api 10y ago
    Good point. The high salaries techies can land on short notice are almost as good as having FU money. You don't have to stick your head in that snarling contract's mouth. You also have entities out there like YCombinator and even NVCA that publish standard deal terms that are relatively founder-friendly. Founders negotiating deals even outside the orbit of these entities can reference these terms and say "these are the standard and they were used for 'insert well-known startup here' by 'top-flying VC here'" and push back on any onerous terms by just calling them weird and non-standard. That goes a long way toward curtailing the kind of obscure shenanigans you see in music contracts. Edit: I'm referring to SAFEs, the YC Series AA docs, and the NVCA templates.
Camillo 10y ago
Plumbers actually make pretty good money, don't they?
- PeCaN 10y ago
  I'm not sure what plumber salary has historically been, but according to [1] and [2] they make average to somewhat above average, and according to [3] a master plumber can make upwards of $100k. All-in-all not bad, particularly given that it doesn't require $200k in student loans. :p 1. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/Hourly_Rate http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/H... 2. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm 3. http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,0...
bluedino 10y ago
>> after taxes, expenses, and his agent's cut that he made about as much as he would as a plumber Plumbers don't do too bad. And he's doing what he loves to do. I'd say that's a win.

api 10y ago

That's standard issue in the book and movie contract experience, especially for new entrants. The tech industry is really remarkable for not being abusive to founders and developers. If you think VC terms can be bad, look at what musicians and writers get dealt. Even onerous VC liquidation preferences and ratchet terms or down round dilution is nothing compared to what gets done to your favorite band. I think it's because techies, while not necessarily MBAs, tend to read the fine print and not be quite as ignorant of business as your average artist. It's also because it's a new growing industry, while art/music/writing is a stagnant old one.

true_religion 10y ago
Also techies can self-fund for small ventures. Unlike musicians, a typical 'techie' can pull in near 100k per year and save it to fund their side-projects while working, or taking a long sabbatical with a few friends to work on a startup. Musicians get paid a lot less even when they aren't trying to make it 'big'.
lotyrin 10y ago
I imagine there's plenty of artists that read the fine print, couldn't stomach the terms, and were consequently never heard of. Others decided they didn't mind the terms and the odds, some of those made it. Software founders are just more likely to be from a social class where saying no to bad terms means you can still possibly succeed, and so the market doesn't bear bids of particularly bad terms.
- api 10y ago
  Good point. The high salaries techies can land on short notice are almost as good as having FU money. You don't have to stick your head in that snarling contract's mouth. You also have entities out there like YCombinator and even NVCA that publish standard deal terms that are relatively founder-friendly. Founders negotiating deals even outside the orbit of these entities can reference these terms and say "these are the standard and they were used for 'insert well-known startup here' by 'top-flying VC here'" and push back on any onerous terms by just calling them weird and non-standard. That goes a long way toward curtailing the kind of obscure shenanigans you see in music contracts. Edit: I'm referring to SAFEs, the YC Series AA docs, and the NVCA templates.

Camillo 10y ago

Plumbers actually make pretty good money, don't they?

PeCaN 10y ago
I'm not sure what plumber salary has historically been, but according to [1] and [2] they make average to somewhat above average, and according to [3] a master plumber can make upwards of $100k. All-in-all not bad, particularly given that it doesn't require $200k in student loans. :p 1. http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/Hourly_Rate http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Journeyman_Plumber/H... 2. http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm http://www.bls.gov/oes/current/oes472152.htm 3. http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,00.html http://content.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,1851673,0...

bluedino 10y ago

>> after taxes, expenses, and his agent's cut that he made about as much as he would as a plumber Plumbers don't do too bad. And he's doing what he loves to do. I'd say that's a win.