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I don't understand this constant fight to have 50%. There are capable women who climb ladders successfully. The other women who couldn't, simply couldn't, just

by NTDF9 10y ago

I don't understand this constant fight to have 50%. There are capable women who climb ladders successfully. The other women who couldn't, simply couldn't, just like many men who couldn't. Also, pregnancy and breastfeeding cannot be done by a man. A woman who aspires to be a mother will have to compromise on other things to be a mother, which probably will include a compromise in career. A man who aspires to be a father will have to compromise on other things to be a father, which probably will include a compromise in EVERY OTHER FACET of his life ensuring he has a job to pay the bills for the woman and children. Why is motherhood such a stigma? Why is career the all-important thing that EVERY woman has to pursue? Let the woman choose herself what she wants to do.

nostrebored 10y ago
So you think that there are more incapable women than men in the world? Women are capable of working in fields like tech through pregnancy. We have breast pumps and formula. If you're going to complain about maternity leave, why is the man not taking paternity leave to help his partner and bond with his child? Why does it have to be the man making all of these decisions? Why can't both partners work together ot support a child? Why is motherhood viewed in the ridiculous, rigid way that we see it today a given? The thing is, given attitudes like yours (which are emblematic of societies) you're presented a false dichotomy of "career-woman" or the martyrdom of modern motherhood.
- NTDF9 10y ago
  >> So you think that there are more incapable women than men in the world? Incapable of what? Never once did I say women are incapable of either career or motherhood. Women can efficiently do what they choose to. Juggling many roles on the other hand is hard for any human being (regardless of gender) >> Women are capable of working in fields like tech through pregnancy. We have breast pumps and formula. If you're going to complain about maternity leave, why is the man not taking paternity leave to help his partner and bond with his child? Who said that man doesn't want to take a paternity leave? Every single recent father I know wants to take time off to bond with the kid. Unfortunately, he can't without a cut in pay (in the US). Get this law in and you'll see so many fathers doing it. >> Why does it have to be the man making all of these decisions? Why can't both partners work together ot support a child? It is always a partnership. Only a partnership works. More often than not, partnership == compromise from all parties involved to WIN. If you were a basketball watcher, you'd know that not everyone can play point guard even if they want to. Only one person plays that role and the remaining support that person. Why? So that the team wins. In a baby-making situation, WIN = produce a healthy baby and have enough resources for its upbringing and the mother's safety. With this definition of WIN, a man/woman who only wants selfish desires and doesn't care for the partner or the kid is a subhuman being. Sorry. You both need to be less selfish here for the sake of the kid. >> Why is motherhood in the ridiculous, rigid way that we see it today a given? The thing is, given attitudes like yours (which are emblematic of societies) you're presented a false dichotomy of "career-woman" or the martyrdom of modern motherhood. Fine. Do both jobs half-heartedly. Anybody who has been a successful mother knows that it is HARD. If you think it just "happens" you're badly mistaken.
  - nostrebored 10y ago
    >"There are capable women who climb ladders successfully. The other women who couldn't, simply couldn't, just like many men who couldn't." There are fewer women, proportionally, who "climb ladders" successfully. This implies that there are fewer capable women than men in the world. >"Who said that man doesn't want to take a paternity leave? Every single recent father I know wants to take time off to bond with the kid. Unfortunately, he can't without a cut in pay (in the US). Get this law in and you'll see so many fathers doing it." The mother being present is not required for a child to be exclusively breastfed anymore. Pumping is quite effective. The only argument for only the woman to be taking the time off and making these career compromises is one that views women as the only capable caregivers. >"It is always a partnership. Only a partnership works. More often than not, partnership == compromise from all parties involved to WIN." And this can't be done with both partners sharing in childcare responsibilities and working? The data is out there (see my other posts) to show that SAHM are significantly more angry, depressed, etc. than their working counterparts. Is this a win for the mother and the baby? Do you think that women are incapable of "playing point guard", i.e. providing for their family? >"Fine. Do both jobs half-heartedly. Anybody who has been a successful mother knows that it is HARD. If you think it just "happens" you're badly mistaken." I've stayed at home with child. I know that it's hard. Being a successful PARENT is hard too, and the reason that motherhood is even harder for the majority of the people that I know is their sole responsibility as child-rearer.
    - NTDF9 10y ago
      >> There are fewer women, proportionally, who "climb ladders" successfully. This implies that there are fewer capable women than men in the world. Or, they make different life choices. >> The mother being present is not required for a child to be exclusively breastfed anymore. Pumping is quite effective. The only argument for only the woman to be taking the time off and making these career compromises is one that views women as the only capable caregivers. Fine. Don't be a good parent. Women are not the only capable caregivers. Men can be equally good. Women can be equally shitty. Unfortunately, law treats women specially. Get this law to treat women the same as men. >> And this can't be done with both partners sharing in childcare responsibilities and working? The data is out there (see my other posts) to show that SAHM are significantly more angry, depressed, etc. than their working counterparts. Is this a win for the mother and the baby? Do you think that women are incapable of "playing point guard", i.e. providing for their family? No. Women certainly can play point guard. But when was the last time you saw a woman date a deadbeat? No woman wants to date a man who sits at home....implicitly, men who are going to become a parent work (or have to work). Women can play point guards when they start having families with deadbeats. >> I've stayed at home with child. I know that it's hard. Being a successful PARENT is hard too, and the reason that motherhood is even harder for the majority of the people that I know is their sole responsibility as child-rearer. It's not the mother's sole responsibility. But at least one partner has to take more care of the kid while the other partner sacrifices their social life for work. You can have men sitting at home taking care of the kid, but I don't see many women married to men like that. Care to set an example?

by NTDF9 10y ago

nostrebored 10y ago

So you think that there are more incapable women than men in the world? Women are capable of working in fields like tech through pregnancy. We have breast pumps and formula. If you're going to complain about maternity leave, why is the man not taking paternity leave to help his partner and bond with his child? Why does it have to be the man making all of these decisions? Why can't both partners work together ot support a child? Why is motherhood viewed in the ridiculous, rigid way that we see it today a given? The thing is, given attitudes like yours (which are emblematic of societies) you're presented a false dichotomy of "career-woman" or the martyrdom of modern motherhood.

NTDF9 10y ago
>> So you think that there are more incapable women than men in the world? Incapable of what? Never once did I say women are incapable of either career or motherhood. Women can efficiently do what they choose to. Juggling many roles on the other hand is hard for any human being (regardless of gender) >> Women are capable of working in fields like tech through pregnancy. We have breast pumps and formula. If you're going to complain about maternity leave, why is the man not taking paternity leave to help his partner and bond with his child? Who said that man doesn't want to take a paternity leave? Every single recent father I know wants to take time off to bond with the kid. Unfortunately, he can't without a cut in pay (in the US). Get this law in and you'll see so many fathers doing it. >> Why does it have to be the man making all of these decisions? Why can't both partners work together ot support a child? It is always a partnership. Only a partnership works. More often than not, partnership == compromise from all parties involved to WIN. If you were a basketball watcher, you'd know that not everyone can play point guard even if they want to. Only one person plays that role and the remaining support that person. Why? So that the team wins. In a baby-making situation, WIN = produce a healthy baby and have enough resources for its upbringing and the mother's safety. With this definition of WIN, a man/woman who only wants selfish desires and doesn't care for the partner or the kid is a subhuman being. Sorry. You both need to be less selfish here for the sake of the kid. >> Why is motherhood in the ridiculous, rigid way that we see it today a given? The thing is, given attitudes like yours (which are emblematic of societies) you're presented a false dichotomy of "career-woman" or the martyrdom of modern motherhood. Fine. Do both jobs half-heartedly. Anybody who has been a successful mother knows that it is HARD. If you think it just "happens" you're badly mistaken.
- nostrebored 10y ago
  >"There are capable women who climb ladders successfully. The other women who couldn't, simply couldn't, just like many men who couldn't." There are fewer women, proportionally, who "climb ladders" successfully. This implies that there are fewer capable women than men in the world. >"Who said that man doesn't want to take a paternity leave? Every single recent father I know wants to take time off to bond with the kid. Unfortunately, he can't without a cut in pay (in the US). Get this law in and you'll see so many fathers doing it." The mother being present is not required for a child to be exclusively breastfed anymore. Pumping is quite effective. The only argument for only the woman to be taking the time off and making these career compromises is one that views women as the only capable caregivers. >"It is always a partnership. Only a partnership works. More often than not, partnership == compromise from all parties involved to WIN." And this can't be done with both partners sharing in childcare responsibilities and working? The data is out there (see my other posts) to show that SAHM are significantly more angry, depressed, etc. than their working counterparts. Is this a win for the mother and the baby? Do you think that women are incapable of "playing point guard", i.e. providing for their family? >"Fine. Do both jobs half-heartedly. Anybody who has been a successful mother knows that it is HARD. If you think it just "happens" you're badly mistaken." I've stayed at home with child. I know that it's hard. Being a successful PARENT is hard too, and the reason that motherhood is even harder for the majority of the people that I know is their sole responsibility as child-rearer.
  - NTDF9 10y ago
    >> There are fewer women, proportionally, who "climb ladders" successfully. This implies that there are fewer capable women than men in the world. Or, they make different life choices. >> The mother being present is not required for a child to be exclusively breastfed anymore. Pumping is quite effective. The only argument for only the woman to be taking the time off and making these career compromises is one that views women as the only capable caregivers. Fine. Don't be a good parent. Women are not the only capable caregivers. Men can be equally good. Women can be equally shitty. Unfortunately, law treats women specially. Get this law to treat women the same as men. >> And this can't be done with both partners sharing in childcare responsibilities and working? The data is out there (see my other posts) to show that SAHM are significantly more angry, depressed, etc. than their working counterparts. Is this a win for the mother and the baby? Do you think that women are incapable of "playing point guard", i.e. providing for their family? No. Women certainly can play point guard. But when was the last time you saw a woman date a deadbeat? No woman wants to date a man who sits at home....implicitly, men who are going to become a parent work (or have to work). Women can play point guards when they start having families with deadbeats. >> I've stayed at home with child. I know that it's hard. Being a successful PARENT is hard too, and the reason that motherhood is even harder for the majority of the people that I know is their sole responsibility as child-rearer. It's not the mother's sole responsibility. But at least one partner has to take more care of the kid while the other partner sacrifices their social life for work. You can have men sitting at home taking care of the kid, but I don't see many women married to men like that. Care to set an example?