8 ms·

How Dirty Is Your Air?

66 points by chewymouse 10y ago

ZeroFries 10y ago
Is this an ad?
- blacksmith_tb 10y ago
  Especially when there are very similar [1] devices selling in China for about 1/3 the price (where bad air quality is more than what you cooked for breakfast). 1: http://www.originstech.com/ http://www.originstech.com/
- reefoctopus 10y ago
  It certainly reads like one.
- xiphias 10y ago
  Yes, and these cheap devices sadly don't have accuracy description. I would be OK to pay for it if some accuracy would be guaranteed, but writing that it's calibrated and not specifying the maximal error looks always fishy.
  - robryk 10y ago
    I would also be wary of how the accuracy declines over time. E.g. how does the device keep properly sized dust from staying or small scratches from developing on the surfaces that are involved in the measurement (e.g. lenses and mirrors for optical devices)?
chm 10y ago
During undergrad, me and some peers (all chemists) talked about having such a network of air sensors. Having good resolution on air quality measurements could drastically improve the quality of life of people living in big cities. We never knew how to monetize this, however. One way we thought about was to install a private network of sensors (inside and outside houses) and then sell the datasets to research agencies. Doesn't see too profitable though. Ideally what you need is a machine that can take different measurements: wind speed and direction, temperature, humidity, VOC levels, ozone, nitrogen compounds and general particulate matter. A static network of sensors is a great start, but your measurements basically define a surface. What you'd want is a fleet of drones which could "stand still" in formation, let's say a 50 x 50 x 50 drone cube each 1m apart, and take volumetric + time measurements. That would be _awesome_ :)
- tim333 10y ago
  There's a fair network in London https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/PublicEpisodes.asp https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/PublicEpisodes.asp The pollution seems fairly spread out so I'm not sure how much having higher resolution would help. I think those are government/council owned. I was toying with a commercial service where householders could pay a bit for measurements on their homes and could try to counter bad stuff with filters and the like. Not quite sure about the economics - the cost of sensors seems to be dropping rapidly. The government monitoring stations I think are like $25k but there's cheaper stuff out there.
- detaro 10y ago
  I think I've seen projects that put sensors on delivery vehicles... not a nice group formation, but at least it linearly covers a lot of areas at different times of day.
tim333 10y ago
Funnily enough I'm just embarking on a little project to monitor the the air around me and have ordered a particle counter off ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Hot-Selling-USB-Port-Laser-Dust-Sensor-Module-PM1-0-PM2-5-PM10-Detector-/172139517641?hash=item28145096c9:g:mBcAAOSwu1VW7X9u http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Hot-Selling-USB-Port-Laser-Dus...) £29, hooks up to usb somehow. I've yet to get it and try to figure drivers. I'm now trying to find a cheap NO2 sensor. Those seem to be the main categories that do people in in London. The Guardian figured 3,537 deaths for pm2.5, 5,879 deaths from NO2 in 2010 approx.
- dharma1 10y ago
  https://www.cooking-hacks.com/no2-gas-sensor-5339 https://www.cooking-hacks.com/no2-gas-sensor-5339
  - tim333 10y ago
    Ta
    - tim333 10y ago
      Update - bought and cancelled that one as it's specs didn't seem sensitive enough - not quite sure - says to 0.05ppm which is still quite high. Now checking out http://www.alphasense.com/index.php/products/nitrogen-dioxide-2/ http://www.alphasense.com/index.php/products/nitrogen-dioxid...
dharma1 10y ago
Some indoor air purifiers have particle count sensors that activate the purifier fan. BTW - anyone have recommendations for an air purifier with a true HEPA filter?
- shawnps 10y ago
  I've heard good things about this: http://smartairfilters.com/en http://smartairfilters.com/en which is really just a fan with a HEPA filter attached to it.
  - dharma1 10y ago
    Was looking them earlier - really like what they're doing (back to basics - airflow + HEPA Filter) but prohibitive shipping costs to UK/Europe from China
- imaginology 10y ago
  I was looking at this a few days ago http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/AC3256_30/3000-series-air-cleaner http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/AC3256_30/3000-series-air-clean... It has good reviews on Amazon, but it's not cheap.
- vitd 10y ago
  You can make your own: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU>
- colanderman 10y ago
  I have both the HEPA air purifier and energy recovery ventilator from these guys: http://purifresh.com http://purifresh.com They work pretty well (keep my wife's allergies in check) and are simple but well-constructed units. Edit: but they are US based so shipping may be equally expensive to the UK.
- tellarin 10y ago
  Unfortunately all the ones I've seen give wildly inaccurate readings. Living in China I've measured particle count way too many times with different sensors. :)
georgecmu 10y ago
Surprisingly, I haven't heard of AirViz before. Their CEO is Allah Nourbakhsh, CMU Robotics Institute professor, previously(?) involved with GigaPan.
f_allwein 10y ago
not a very good name for international expansion as "Speck" means "bacon" in German. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speck https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speck
- sehr 10y ago
  Are there anywhere near enough German speakers to make that a problem?
  - f_allwein 10y ago
    roughly 100 million, which is not that much in the cosmic scale of things. But if it becomes a globally successful product, they'd have to live with sarcastic comments from us, or come up with a different name in DE.
- Johnny555 10y ago
  Sounds like a great name, who wouldn't want to buy the Bacon 2.0 machine? :-)
- maxerickson 10y ago
  I dunno, if you are fretting over particulates from cooking breakfast, a bacon meter sounds like a fine way to keep track of it.
pygy_ 10y ago
I'm curious about the composition of the particles emitted when frying the eggs, and on the specific toxicity of cooking oil droplets and specs of albumin... I'd expect both to be readily processed by macrophages, without harm, unlike the soot particles produced by burning either wood, coal or petrol derivatives...
- derefr 10y ago
  Makes me wonder how much it would cost to turn an oven range hood into a full-on chemical fume-hood, with the hanging plastic isolation flaps.
Aelinsaar 10y ago
This is a clickbait ad, "See what one family learned!" I come to HN to avoid this.
- entheon 10y ago
  MIT Technology Review Magazine Better than your average clickbait, but yeah cliffhanger-as-headline is a cheesey tactic. I still enjoy this site, as a serious indicator of regional, population-center-oriented indicator of air quality: https://plumelabs.com https://plumelabs.com
  - Aelinsaar 10y ago
    I wish that I could just come to the full-throated defense of MIT's publications, but I think we all know how press offices can be, and that doesn't reflect on the researchers or academics IMO.
internaut 10y ago
Yes it's an advert but the problem itself is a real one. Dirty air will grind your respiratory system down. Your lungs. You need those to breathe.
jacobolus 10y ago
> The World Health Organization estimates that 80 percent of people living in urban environments are being exposed to unhealthy levels of air pollution from particulates and it says they cause four million deaths annually around the world. The level of particulates middle-class people face indoors in the worst urban environments is tiny compared to the level of particulates people face (esp. in rural areas) wherever cooking is done indoors over a wood fire. We’re talking about a level of wood smoke filling the room which causes eyes to redden and start watering, and makes it physically difficult to breathe. (Source: my parents are anthropologists and my godparents are indigenous rural Mexican peasant farmers, and I spent lots of time growing up sitting next to wood-burning hearth fires.) On average, by historical standards, humans’ current exposure to particulates is very low and continues to drop every year. I don’t know if it makes sense for people to freak out about cooking eggs in their houses, though having effective indoor ventilation is obviously worthwhile, all else equal. Edit: I looked up the actual WHO source (not linked in the OP): http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollut... > After analysing the risk factors and taking into account revisions in methodology, WHO estimates indoor air pollution was linked to 4.3 million deaths in 2012 in households cooking over coal, wood and biomass stoves. This is not talking about people using a gas range with an underpowered ventilation hood to cook eggs, and the 4 million deaths number is not restricted to urban areas. The people dying here don’t need a little electronic air quality detector, they need electrification and rising incomes so they can afford better heaters and stoves. To cut outdoor air pollution, we should get people to stop burning piles of trash, stop using fire to clear large areas for agriculture, switch away from coal power plants as soon as possible, and try to get the worst polluting old vehicles off the roads.
- internaut 10y ago
  Agree with all of that. Still no reason not to be optimizing our environments a bit more than the usual person might. There are less obvious threats to respiratory health in the developed world but the ones that are left are probably more insidious e.g. radon gas, VOCs from paints. Having cooking fires sucks for the women tending them in the Third World but most family members probably aren't in the house/hut for most of the day. They're probably engaged in plenty of physical activity outdoors. We on the other hand are sitting in places with artificial florescent lights and are in the same spots on a consistent basis. We should: - have natural sunlight (using my magical heliostats) - run about more - be surrounded by plants (perhaps visits from cool animals) I should start a minor religion.
miesman 10y ago
Reasonable lower priced option from china: https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT938C-Detector-Thermometer-Temperature/dp/B013SOD0LA/ https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT938C-Detector-Thermometer-Tem... or slightly lower priced slightly older version on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT-338C-Indoor-VOC-PM2-5-Air-Quality-Detector-Monitor-Thermometer-41E9-/131595466298?hash=item1ea3b3763a:g:KF4AAOSwZtJW9Q4p http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT-338C-Indoor-VOC-PM2-5-Air-Q...
reedlaw 10y ago
I live in China and have a Laser Egg (1) in my home. It's extremely accurate, often matching the AQI reading found by online services. What I'm interested in is learning how to purify the air inside. I knew cooking was a major culprit in raising PM2.5 levels. But even when running two air purifiers sometimes the AQI just can't be lowered too much. I think it's leaky seals in the apartment. We're on the 18th floor and on a windy day can feel a huge draft from the front door and hear the wind escaping the balcony windows. 1. http://www.originstech.com/products/laseregg/ http://www.originstech.com/products/laseregg/
- martian 10y ago
  I bought a top rated air purifier a couple months ago off of the recommendation from Wirecutter. I live in SF, not China, but it's dramatically improved quality of life in my apartment. It cleans out smokey air from cooking very quickly, and cuts down dust/particulates especially in the spring months when pollen is everywhere. Highly recommend.
  - cglace 10y ago
    Just curious, which purifier?
    - chdir 10y ago
      Probably Coway AP-1512HH Mighty. http://thewirecutter.com/?s=air+purifier http://thewirecutter.com/?s=air+purifier redirects to http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/ http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/
      - martian 10y ago
        Yes, the Coway. I've had it for a few months now and just leave it on all the time on auto/eco mode.
- Sukotto 10y ago
  If you haven't seen it, this TED talk on using plants for air purification is pretty cool: https://www.ted.com/talks/kamal_meattle_on_how_to_grow_your_own_fresh_air https://www.ted.com/talks/kamal_meattle_on_how_to_grow_your_...
maxaf 10y ago
Canary - https://canary.is/ https://canary.is/ - the home security camera comes equipped with sensors that are capable of measuring air quality. I reckon this will be a big deal for a lot of people, although right now most don't even know that such measurements are possible or why they're important.
internaut 10y ago
If you've ever worked as a cleaner you'll appreciate what tobacco smoke, foods cooked in Indian style, people not venting their rooms (hello mold) can do to the furnishings, walls and ceilings. Maybe if your environment is turning a deep ocher, it isn't healthy to live in it. I am completely unsurprised if the people who live in them die younger. People with wealth probably imagine themselves immune to the problem as they have a cleaning staff but that is not true either. They need to watch out with new cars and new houses. These should be ideally left alone for up to six months so the off gassing of paints, lacquers, chaulking can happen and also the dust level from construction can die down.

66 points by chewymouse 10y ago

ZeroFries 10y ago

Is this an ad?

blacksmith_tb 10y ago
Especially when there are very similar [1] devices selling in China for about 1/3 the price (where bad air quality is more than what you cooked for breakfast). 1: http://www.originstech.com/ http://www.originstech.com/
reefoctopus 10y ago
It certainly reads like one.
xiphias 10y ago
Yes, and these cheap devices sadly don't have accuracy description. I would be OK to pay for it if some accuracy would be guaranteed, but writing that it's calibrated and not specifying the maximal error looks always fishy.
- robryk 10y ago
  I would also be wary of how the accuracy declines over time. E.g. how does the device keep properly sized dust from staying or small scratches from developing on the surfaces that are involved in the measurement (e.g. lenses and mirrors for optical devices)?

chm 10y ago

During undergrad, me and some peers (all chemists) talked about having such a network of air sensors. Having good resolution on air quality measurements could drastically improve the quality of life of people living in big cities. We never knew how to monetize this, however. One way we thought about was to install a private network of sensors (inside and outside houses) and then sell the datasets to research agencies. Doesn't see too profitable though. Ideally what you need is a machine that can take different measurements: wind speed and direction, temperature, humidity, VOC levels, ozone, nitrogen compounds and general particulate matter. A static network of sensors is a great start, but your measurements basically define a surface. What you'd want is a fleet of drones which could "stand still" in formation, let's say a 50 x 50 x 50 drone cube each 1m apart, and take volumetric + time measurements. That would be _awesome_ :)

tim333 10y ago
There's a fair network in London https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/PublicEpisodes.asp https://www.londonair.org.uk/london/asp/PublicEpisodes.asp The pollution seems fairly spread out so I'm not sure how much having higher resolution would help. I think those are government/council owned. I was toying with a commercial service where householders could pay a bit for measurements on their homes and could try to counter bad stuff with filters and the like. Not quite sure about the economics - the cost of sensors seems to be dropping rapidly. The government monitoring stations I think are like $25k but there's cheaper stuff out there.
detaro 10y ago
I think I've seen projects that put sensors on delivery vehicles... not a nice group formation, but at least it linearly covers a lot of areas at different times of day.

tim333 10y ago

Funnily enough I'm just embarking on a little project to monitor the the air around me and have ordered a particle counter off ebay (http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Hot-Selling-USB-Port-Laser-Dust-Sensor-Module-PM1-0-PM2-5-PM10-Detector-/172139517641?hash=item28145096c9:g:mBcAAOSwu1VW7X9u http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/New-Hot-Selling-USB-Port-Laser-Dus...) £29, hooks up to usb somehow. I've yet to get it and try to figure drivers. I'm now trying to find a cheap NO2 sensor. Those seem to be the main categories that do people in in London. The Guardian figured 3,537 deaths for pm2.5, 5,879 deaths from NO2 in 2010 approx.

dharma1 10y ago
https://www.cooking-hacks.com/no2-gas-sensor-5339 https://www.cooking-hacks.com/no2-gas-sensor-5339
- tim333 10y ago
  Ta
  - tim333 10y ago
    Update - bought and cancelled that one as it's specs didn't seem sensitive enough - not quite sure - says to 0.05ppm which is still quite high. Now checking out http://www.alphasense.com/index.php/products/nitrogen-dioxide-2/ http://www.alphasense.com/index.php/products/nitrogen-dioxid...

dharma1 10y ago

Some indoor air purifiers have particle count sensors that activate the purifier fan. BTW - anyone have recommendations for an air purifier with a true HEPA filter?

shawnps 10y ago
I've heard good things about this: http://smartairfilters.com/en http://smartairfilters.com/en which is really just a fan with a HEPA filter attached to it.
- dharma1 10y ago
  Was looking them earlier - really like what they're doing (back to basics - airflow + HEPA Filter) but prohibitive shipping costs to UK/Europe from China
imaginology 10y ago
I was looking at this a few days ago http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/AC3256_30/3000-series-air-cleaner http://www.philips.co.uk/c-p/AC3256_30/3000-series-air-clean... It has good reviews on Amazon, but it's not cheap.
vitd 10y ago
You can make your own: <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kH5APw_SLUU>
colanderman 10y ago
I have both the HEPA air purifier and energy recovery ventilator from these guys: http://purifresh.com http://purifresh.com They work pretty well (keep my wife's allergies in check) and are simple but well-constructed units. Edit: but they are US based so shipping may be equally expensive to the UK.
tellarin 10y ago
Unfortunately all the ones I've seen give wildly inaccurate readings. Living in China I've measured particle count way too many times with different sensors. :)

georgecmu 10y ago

Surprisingly, I haven't heard of AirViz before. Their CEO is Allah Nourbakhsh, CMU Robotics Institute professor, previously(?) involved with GigaPan.

f_allwein 10y ago

not a very good name for international expansion as "Speck" means "bacon" in German. https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speck https://de.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Speck

sehr 10y ago
Are there anywhere near enough German speakers to make that a problem?
- f_allwein 10y ago
  roughly 100 million, which is not that much in the cosmic scale of things. But if it becomes a globally successful product, they'd have to live with sarcastic comments from us, or come up with a different name in DE.
Johnny555 10y ago
Sounds like a great name, who wouldn't want to buy the Bacon 2.0 machine? :-)
maxerickson 10y ago
I dunno, if you are fretting over particulates from cooking breakfast, a bacon meter sounds like a fine way to keep track of it.

pygy_ 10y ago

I'm curious about the composition of the particles emitted when frying the eggs, and on the specific toxicity of cooking oil droplets and specs of albumin... I'd expect both to be readily processed by macrophages, without harm, unlike the soot particles produced by burning either wood, coal or petrol derivatives...

derefr 10y ago
Makes me wonder how much it would cost to turn an oven range hood into a full-on chemical fume-hood, with the hanging plastic isolation flaps.

Aelinsaar 10y ago

This is a clickbait ad, "See what one family learned!" I come to HN to avoid this.

entheon 10y ago
MIT Technology Review Magazine Better than your average clickbait, but yeah cliffhanger-as-headline is a cheesey tactic. I still enjoy this site, as a serious indicator of regional, population-center-oriented indicator of air quality: https://plumelabs.com https://plumelabs.com
- Aelinsaar 10y ago
  I wish that I could just come to the full-throated defense of MIT's publications, but I think we all know how press offices can be, and that doesn't reflect on the researchers or academics IMO.

internaut 10y ago

Yes it's an advert but the problem itself is a real one. Dirty air will grind your respiratory system down. Your lungs. You need those to breathe.

jacobolus 10y ago

> The World Health Organization estimates that 80 percent of people living in urban environments are being exposed to unhealthy levels of air pollution from particulates and it says they cause four million deaths annually around the world. The level of particulates middle-class people face indoors in the worst urban environments is tiny compared to the level of particulates people face (esp. in rural areas) wherever cooking is done indoors over a wood fire. We’re talking about a level of wood smoke filling the room which causes eyes to redden and start watering, and makes it physically difficult to breathe. (Source: my parents are anthropologists and my godparents are indigenous rural Mexican peasant farmers, and I spent lots of time growing up sitting next to wood-burning hearth fires.) On average, by historical standards, humans’ current exposure to particulates is very low and continues to drop every year. I don’t know if it makes sense for people to freak out about cooking eggs in their houses, though having effective indoor ventilation is obviously worthwhile, all else equal. Edit: I looked up the actual WHO source (not linked in the OP): http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollution/en/ http://www.who.int/mediacentre/news/releases/2014/air-pollut... > After analysing the risk factors and taking into account revisions in methodology, WHO estimates indoor air pollution was linked to 4.3 million deaths in 2012 in households cooking over coal, wood and biomass stoves. This is not talking about people using a gas range with an underpowered ventilation hood to cook eggs, and the 4 million deaths number is not restricted to urban areas. The people dying here don’t need a little electronic air quality detector, they need electrification and rising incomes so they can afford better heaters and stoves. To cut outdoor air pollution, we should get people to stop burning piles of trash, stop using fire to clear large areas for agriculture, switch away from coal power plants as soon as possible, and try to get the worst polluting old vehicles off the roads.

internaut 10y ago
Agree with all of that. Still no reason not to be optimizing our environments a bit more than the usual person might. There are less obvious threats to respiratory health in the developed world but the ones that are left are probably more insidious e.g. radon gas, VOCs from paints. Having cooking fires sucks for the women tending them in the Third World but most family members probably aren't in the house/hut for most of the day. They're probably engaged in plenty of physical activity outdoors. We on the other hand are sitting in places with artificial florescent lights and are in the same spots on a consistent basis. We should: - have natural sunlight (using my magical heliostats) - run about more - be surrounded by plants (perhaps visits from cool animals) I should start a minor religion.

miesman 10y ago

Reasonable lower priced option from china: https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT938C-Detector-Thermometer-Temperature/dp/B013SOD0LA/ https://www.amazon.com/UNI-T-UT938C-Detector-Thermometer-Tem... or slightly lower priced slightly older version on eBay http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT-338C-Indoor-VOC-PM2-5-Air-Quality-Detector-Monitor-Thermometer-41E9-/131595466298?hash=item1ea3b3763a:g:KF4AAOSwZtJW9Q4p http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNI-T-UT-338C-Indoor-VOC-PM2-5-Air-Q...

reedlaw 10y ago

I live in China and have a Laser Egg (1) in my home. It's extremely accurate, often matching the AQI reading found by online services. What I'm interested in is learning how to purify the air inside. I knew cooking was a major culprit in raising PM2.5 levels. But even when running two air purifiers sometimes the AQI just can't be lowered too much. I think it's leaky seals in the apartment. We're on the 18th floor and on a windy day can feel a huge draft from the front door and hear the wind escaping the balcony windows. 1. http://www.originstech.com/products/laseregg/ http://www.originstech.com/products/laseregg/

martian 10y ago
I bought a top rated air purifier a couple months ago off of the recommendation from Wirecutter. I live in SF, not China, but it's dramatically improved quality of life in my apartment. It cleans out smokey air from cooking very quickly, and cuts down dust/particulates especially in the spring months when pollen is everywhere. Highly recommend.
- cglace 10y ago
  Just curious, which purifier?
  - chdir 10y ago
    Probably Coway AP-1512HH Mighty. http://thewirecutter.com/?s=air+purifier http://thewirecutter.com/?s=air+purifier redirects to http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/ http://thesweethome.com/reviews/best-air-purifier/
    - martian 10y ago
      Yes, the Coway. I've had it for a few months now and just leave it on all the time on auto/eco mode.
Sukotto 10y ago
If you haven't seen it, this TED talk on using plants for air purification is pretty cool: https://www.ted.com/talks/kamal_meattle_on_how_to_grow_your_own_fresh_air https://www.ted.com/talks/kamal_meattle_on_how_to_grow_your_...

maxaf 10y ago

Canary - https://canary.is/ https://canary.is/ - the home security camera comes equipped with sensors that are capable of measuring air quality. I reckon this will be a big deal for a lot of people, although right now most don't even know that such measurements are possible or why they're important.

internaut 10y ago

If you've ever worked as a cleaner you'll appreciate what tobacco smoke, foods cooked in Indian style, people not venting their rooms (hello mold) can do to the furnishings, walls and ceilings. Maybe if your environment is turning a deep ocher, it isn't healthy to live in it. I am completely unsurprised if the people who live in them die younger. People with wealth probably imagine themselves immune to the problem as they have a cleaning staff but that is not true either. They need to watch out with new cars and new houses. These should be ideally left alone for up to six months so the off gassing of paints, lacquers, chaulking can happen and also the dust level from construction can die down.