4 ms·

Refugees by definition are poor (civil war wiped out their livelihood in this instance). They end up relying on the government safety-net, which is better than

Refugees by definition are poor (civil war wiped out their livelihood in this instance). They end up relying on the government safety-net, which is better than nothing, but normally still a barely above poverty life-style. This congregates the migrants in migrant only areas; to where they do not experience the culture of the nation which is now their home, in a way a normal immigrant would... Thus there is no real pressure to assimilate and the customs which aren't congruent with western society which are endemic in parts of the Arab world remain(woman's rights, freedom of religion, etc...).

matt4077 10y ago
> Refugees by definition are poor The "by definition" makes it easy to refute, I just need a single example. Let's take the Jews fleeing Germany in the 40ies, or, for kicks&giggles: the Dalai Lama. > They end up relying on the government safety-net While poor people tend to do that, you're generalizing from the usual case to the special. If I burn down all your immobile possessions, will you just throw your hands in the air and say "fuck it, I'll do welfare from here on out"? Not saying that it's to start anew in a different country, but if you take the average person, and then select those marching through the desert for 40 weeks, you'll end up with someone vastly different than your average welfare recipient. > This congregates the migrants in migrant only areas; Possibly true in France, not so much in, say, Germany, where all the cool kidz want to move to the inner-city with their start-ups and underground parties. > Thus there is no real pressure to assimilate It sounds like there'd be economic pressure, or are immigrants just too happy with a "barely above poverty life-style"? > and the customs which aren't congruent with western society which are endemic in parts of the Arab world remain(woman's rights, freedom of religion, etc...) Very much enjoying how everybody-and-their-racist-uncle is discovering women's rights these days. If only they'd be so open-minded when they hear that >90% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by, well, that uncle. Or some other family member.
- coldtea 10y ago
  >The "by definition" makes it easy to refute, I just need a single example. On the contrary. By definition here is used casually and doesn't mean "necessarily everybody" just the vast majority.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    That doesn't work at all adrenalinelol should have just said something like "are primarily poor because of their refugee status". The term 'by definition' means that all of the mentioned group have the particular characteristic, it absolutely is saying "necessarily everyone". If you don't mean to strictly require that condition then use different terminology.
    - coldtea 10y ago
      Casual conversation is usually not very strict. In any case, it was obvious from the context that parent didn't mean "absolutely every single refugee must be poor".
      - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
        I don't think that was clear: it's a common misunderstanding that all refugees are poor, political rhetoric often tries to emphasise this in order to sway people against migrants. Totally agree about casual conversation but the modification of these expression by addition of "by definition" IMO flips this to be a statement of fact that should be challenged if it's false. There was no need to add that emphasis and it pushed the statement to being demonstrably false.
- usrusr 10y ago
  > Possibly true in France, not so much in, say, Germany, where all the cool kidz want to move to the inner-city with their start-ups and underground parties. The cool kidz inner city quarters, where the stalemate-like coexistence between hipsters and n-th generation migrants creates a unique slowdown to gentrification forces can't be artificially grown. Unfortunately, Neukölln does not scale.

matt4077 10y ago

> Refugees by definition are poor The "by definition" makes it easy to refute, I just need a single example. Let's take the Jews fleeing Germany in the 40ies, or, for kicks&giggles: the Dalai Lama. > They end up relying on the government safety-net While poor people tend to do that, you're generalizing from the usual case to the special. If I burn down all your immobile possessions, will you just throw your hands in the air and say "fuck it, I'll do welfare from here on out"? Not saying that it's to start anew in a different country, but if you take the average person, and then select those marching through the desert for 40 weeks, you'll end up with someone vastly different than your average welfare recipient. > This congregates the migrants in migrant only areas; Possibly true in France, not so much in, say, Germany, where all the cool kidz want to move to the inner-city with their start-ups and underground parties. > Thus there is no real pressure to assimilate It sounds like there'd be economic pressure, or are immigrants just too happy with a "barely above poverty life-style"? > and the customs which aren't congruent with western society which are endemic in parts of the Arab world remain(woman's rights, freedom of religion, etc...) Very much enjoying how everybody-and-their-racist-uncle is discovering women's rights these days. If only they'd be so open-minded when they hear that >90% of sexual assaults are perpetrated by, well, that uncle. Or some other family member.

coldtea 10y ago
>The "by definition" makes it easy to refute, I just need a single example. On the contrary. By definition here is used casually and doesn't mean "necessarily everybody" just the vast majority.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  That doesn't work at all adrenalinelol should have just said something like "are primarily poor because of their refugee status". The term 'by definition' means that all of the mentioned group have the particular characteristic, it absolutely is saying "necessarily everyone". If you don't mean to strictly require that condition then use different terminology.
  - coldtea 10y ago
    Casual conversation is usually not very strict. In any case, it was obvious from the context that parent didn't mean "absolutely every single refugee must be poor".
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      I don't think that was clear: it's a common misunderstanding that all refugees are poor, political rhetoric often tries to emphasise this in order to sway people against migrants. Totally agree about casual conversation but the modification of these expression by addition of "by definition" IMO flips this to be a statement of fact that should be challenged if it's false. There was no need to add that emphasis and it pushed the statement to being demonstrably false.
usrusr 10y ago
> Possibly true in France, not so much in, say, Germany, where all the cool kidz want to move to the inner-city with their start-ups and underground parties. The cool kidz inner city quarters, where the stalemate-like coexistence between hipsters and n-th generation migrants creates a unique slowdown to gentrification forces can't be artificially grown. Unfortunately, Neukölln does not scale.