5 ms·

> For example, rates for a 4,400 teu gearless panamax ship of $5,400 per day, are a staggering 63% below the market rates of a year ago, and in many cases are b

> For example, rates for a 4,400 teu gearless panamax ship of $5,400 per day, are a staggering 63% below the market rates of a year ago, and in many cases are below the daily operating cost. TIL you can rent a Panamax cargo ship for $5,400 a day! That's definitely cheaper than I would have expected. Someone should park one of those in the San Francisco bay and convert it into apartments.

mapt 10y ago
You act as if land scarcity was the issue in San Francisco, rather than legal permission to establish an abode. If people started doing this, the city would find a way to ban them from doing this.
- Florin_Andrei 10y ago
  Regardless - there is some land scarcity in SF, objectively speaking. It's bound to have some non-zero contribution to housing shortages. This is a city surrounded by water on 3 sides. It's not like some iconic-looking locality in Texas, home of the Marlboro Man, where "the land stretches out forever".
- mikeash 10y ago
  That's why people want to park the ship far enough out that it's in international waters: https://blueseed.com https://blueseed.com
  - syngrog66 10y ago
    then no country's navy would protect you. except for the US Navy. which acts as the planet's navy. therefore all US taxpayers will be paying for it, in effect. wait a minute... doh. maybe that is an efficient hack!
    - foota 10y ago
      Yes, because 12 miles off the coast of San Francisco is such a sketchy place.
      - syngrog66 10y ago
        in the future, please prefer to assume I'm not a moron, rather than personally shooting for some easy trivial point-scoring.
      - hyperbovine 10y ago
        Wave heights off the coast of SF are 6-9ft in the winter, with your occasional 20-footer thrown in for good measure. Unless you have serious sea legs, not a place you want to call home. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46026&meas=wh http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46026&mea...
        foota 10y ago
        Not an expert (nor even an amateur), but their FAQ claims this won't be an issue. https://blueseed.com/faq/#seasickness https://blueseed.com/faq/#seasickness
      - dsl 10y ago
        I know plenty of former military contractors that are disgruntled holding down 9 to 5 jobs at Home Depot. It wouldn't take much to stand up a private army to take over a private country.
        walrus01 10y ago
        19 out of 20 of them were probably KBR workers who served food in the DFAC at Bagram, not "pointy end of the spear" Blackwater/Triple Canopy PSD teams.
        dsl 10y ago
        I was out on the road with them, so I respectfully disagree.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - cjensen 10y ago
    BlueSeed is such a hilariously bad idea, it should be in some kind of hall of fame. (Of course, you're just pointing it out, not advocating it!) 1. A landlord who doesn't have to obey any laws regarding rent and terms? 2. The Farallon Islands are offshore from SF, so the 11 mile limit is actually much further than BlueSeed acknowledges. 3. The "Potato Patch" shoal offshore from the Golden Gate makes for nasty waves for many miles in every direction. Guaranteed sea-sickness on every Ferry. 4. If you think SF is cold in Summer, try offshore. The heating costs alone will be astronomical. Fog and fog-colored water is all you will see for most of the year. 5. It's going to stay offshore when we get Tropical Storm-level winds in Winter? 6. One Ferry doesn't cut it -- you need a Plan B for when the Ferry needs maintenance. Ferries are incredibly expensive to operate, which is why there are so few on the Bay. 7. Surely that's a commercial use, and subject to the 200-mile economic exclusion zone? 8. High speed internet? Not when the Fog is drizzling. 9. Presumably it will have to have generators. If you had to rent generators for your businesses and run them 24/7, how much would that cost you in fuel alone? 10. Your generator will also be powering a desalination plant. 11. Nuclear waste? Yep, you'll be parked where the nuclear waste was dumped.
    - burfog 10y ago
      Being within 200 miles probably affects the ship, not the people. It would likely mean being US flagged and/or owned. You can forget about the ship being Panama flagged and Cayman Island owned. This of course gets you US law and the US navy, for better and worse. (taxes, environmental regulations, etc.) It doesn't actually put you in the US though, since you're 11 miles out, so the people shouldn't be affected by immigration law. I think a bigger problem is just the poor value. The ship presumes that people can't work from the other side of the world, but somehow they can work if they are only an annoying ferry ride or an expensive helicopter ride away. Who are the users who need to be close, but not really close?
      - lmm 10y ago
        > The ship presumes that people can't work from the other side of the world, but somehow they can work if they are only an annoying ferry ride or an expensive helicopter ride away. Who are the users who need to be close, but not really close? You need everyone in a room, and that room needs to be somewhere your venture capitalists are willing to visit every few months?
  - imglorp 10y ago
    That offshore regulatory thing is interesting for a commercial zone. You can be sure nobody interested in gambling, drugs, money laundering, slavery, tax shelters, IP piracy, bribery, or prostitution would be interested in such a place. Nope, nobody. Half seriously, you can get all that stuff in Chicago or LA without the water part. See also: http://www.sealandgov.org/ http://www.sealandgov.org/
- legulere 10y ago
  You mean by building towers? Those often lead to a low population density and not so wanted city: http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/london-new-york-they-are-building-deposit-boxes-not-housing.html http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/london-new-york-they-...
  - sp332 10y ago
    No, not towers. It's very difficult to get land zoned for building. Anyway SF is pretty short so you can get comfortably higher without getting into "towers".
cjensen 10y ago
To protect the environment, commercial activities on the Bay are limited to things that cannot be done on land -- that's something the "Google Barge" learned the hard way.

mapt 10y ago

You act as if land scarcity was the issue in San Francisco, rather than legal permission to establish an abode. If people started doing this, the city would find a way to ban them from doing this.

Florin_Andrei 10y ago
Regardless - there is some land scarcity in SF, objectively speaking. It's bound to have some non-zero contribution to housing shortages. This is a city surrounded by water on 3 sides. It's not like some iconic-looking locality in Texas, home of the Marlboro Man, where "the land stretches out forever".
mikeash 10y ago
That's why people want to park the ship far enough out that it's in international waters: https://blueseed.com https://blueseed.com
- syngrog66 10y ago
  then no country's navy would protect you. except for the US Navy. which acts as the planet's navy. therefore all US taxpayers will be paying for it, in effect. wait a minute... doh. maybe that is an efficient hack!
  - foota 10y ago
    Yes, because 12 miles off the coast of San Francisco is such a sketchy place.
    - syngrog66 10y ago
      in the future, please prefer to assume I'm not a moron, rather than personally shooting for some easy trivial point-scoring.
    - hyperbovine 10y ago
      Wave heights off the coast of SF are 6-9ft in the winter, with your occasional 20-footer thrown in for good measure. Unless you have serious sea legs, not a place you want to call home. http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46026&meas=wh http://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/view_climplot.php?station=46026&mea...
      - foota 10y ago
        Not an expert (nor even an amateur), but their FAQ claims this won't be an issue. https://blueseed.com/faq/#seasickness https://blueseed.com/faq/#seasickness
    - dsl 10y ago
      I know plenty of former military contractors that are disgruntled holding down 9 to 5 jobs at Home Depot. It wouldn't take much to stand up a private army to take over a private country.
      - walrus01 10y ago
        19 out of 20 of them were probably KBR workers who served food in the DFAC at Bagram, not "pointy end of the spear" Blackwater/Triple Canopy PSD teams.
        dsl 10y ago
        I was out on the road with them, so I respectfully disagree.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cjensen 10y ago
  BlueSeed is such a hilariously bad idea, it should be in some kind of hall of fame. (Of course, you're just pointing it out, not advocating it!) 1. A landlord who doesn't have to obey any laws regarding rent and terms? 2. The Farallon Islands are offshore from SF, so the 11 mile limit is actually much further than BlueSeed acknowledges. 3. The "Potato Patch" shoal offshore from the Golden Gate makes for nasty waves for many miles in every direction. Guaranteed sea-sickness on every Ferry. 4. If you think SF is cold in Summer, try offshore. The heating costs alone will be astronomical. Fog and fog-colored water is all you will see for most of the year. 5. It's going to stay offshore when we get Tropical Storm-level winds in Winter? 6. One Ferry doesn't cut it -- you need a Plan B for when the Ferry needs maintenance. Ferries are incredibly expensive to operate, which is why there are so few on the Bay. 7. Surely that's a commercial use, and subject to the 200-mile economic exclusion zone? 8. High speed internet? Not when the Fog is drizzling. 9. Presumably it will have to have generators. If you had to rent generators for your businesses and run them 24/7, how much would that cost you in fuel alone? 10. Your generator will also be powering a desalination plant. 11. Nuclear waste? Yep, you'll be parked where the nuclear waste was dumped.
  - burfog 10y ago
    Being within 200 miles probably affects the ship, not the people. It would likely mean being US flagged and/or owned. You can forget about the ship being Panama flagged and Cayman Island owned. This of course gets you US law and the US navy, for better and worse. (taxes, environmental regulations, etc.) It doesn't actually put you in the US though, since you're 11 miles out, so the people shouldn't be affected by immigration law. I think a bigger problem is just the poor value. The ship presumes that people can't work from the other side of the world, but somehow they can work if they are only an annoying ferry ride or an expensive helicopter ride away. Who are the users who need to be close, but not really close?
    - lmm 10y ago
      > The ship presumes that people can't work from the other side of the world, but somehow they can work if they are only an annoying ferry ride or an expensive helicopter ride away. Who are the users who need to be close, but not really close? You need everyone in a room, and that room needs to be somewhere your venture capitalists are willing to visit every few months?
- imglorp 10y ago
  That offshore regulatory thing is interesting for a commercial zone. You can be sure nobody interested in gambling, drugs, money laundering, slavery, tax shelters, IP piracy, bribery, or prostitution would be interested in such a place. Nope, nobody. Half seriously, you can get all that stuff in Chicago or LA without the water part. See also: http://www.sealandgov.org/ http://www.sealandgov.org/
legulere 10y ago
You mean by building towers? Those often lead to a low population density and not so wanted city: http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/london-new-york-they-are-building-deposit-boxes-not-housing.html http://www.treehugger.com/urban-design/london-new-york-they-...
- sp332 10y ago
  No, not towers. It's very difficult to get land zoned for building. Anyway SF is pretty short so you can get comfortably higher without getting into "towers".

cjensen 10y ago

To protect the environment, commercial activities on the Bay are limited to things that cannot be done on land -- that's something the "Google Barge" learned the hard way.